[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[pap1723]

6 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

Made some infographic about what may be the problem at high timewarp:

Hey @ShotgunNinja, I just wanted to tell you that I can confirm the electric consumption bug when timewarp at maximum. Thanks for the great mod!

[Elkram]

So I have been playing for some days with this mod and made an Oxygen Round Oxygen tank.

Took the sphere storage from here:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/92020-10-turbonisureloaded-stock-a-like-parts-pack-060515/

by:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/profile/83859-a__gun/

That is based on:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/63112-023-stockalike-parts-for-useful-esthetics/

by:
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/profile/73873-turbonisu/

License:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

I just Added an Oxygen label, the oxygen resource and changed the research node.

I added 600000 Oxygen. Thought its going to be usefull for long travels or big stations. I'm not sure how much is it on Default profile, I dont know how balanced it is but I figured out It could help to this mod so I'm posting it on dropbox so the modders can pick it if desire to and add it to the next release, It probably is going to need some tweaking, like cost or research node.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqteqyzfsmp66h5/oxygensphere.zip?dl=0

Included is a psd with the oxygen label, just in case you want to change it. Or I can make some modifications if needed, small ones.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Elkram

[MemeBeam]

@ShotgunNinja

Thanks for the quick response I admire your dedication to this mod I cannot wait to see what you add in the future

[Gotmachine]

@ShotgunNinja, @g00bd0g

I don't think that the EC consumption bug at high time warp is related to solar panel input. Build this simple ship :

• QUBE Probe core + antenna (-0.03 Ec/s)
• 1 RTG (+0.75 Ec/s)
• 2 greenhouses (-0.5 Ec/s at 1.0 lamp power)

Launch it, stay on the lauchpad, play with the greenhouse lamps to adjust power consumption and test timewarp. Quick results :

EC production (Ec/s)	Ec consumption (Ec/s)	Stored EC at 10000x	Stored EC at 100000x
0.75	0.71	270/405	0/405
0.75	0.53	305/405	0/405
0.75	0.27	355/405	0/405
0.75	0.13	385/405	205/405

Note that although this seems impossible, the stored EC value is perfectly stable. Could reproduce the problem using the gravity ring as a consumer. Testing with the science lab was a bit trickier, but it seems to be affected in a less dramatic way : the stored charge was at 95 % at 100000x warp for a 1.50 ec/s production and 1.46 ec/s consumption. Not 100% sure about this one.

Some more info :

• A quick test with food : 1 kerbal on board, 10900 units stored, planner depletion estimation : 2y238d. Effective depletion timewarping at 100000x : 2y359d
• Another one with oxygen : 1 kerbal, 120000 units, 1 scrubber active (max tech level). Planner depletion estimation : 1y174d. Effective depletion timewarping at 100000x : 1y174d.
• In some case with the first test, one greenhouse is automatically shutdown when I begin timewarping (related to the "shutdown non-essential systems" behaviour ?)
• All the test results are consistent when I timewarp with the vessel active or from the tracking station.

But here is the best (well, maybe worst...) part : I can reproduce the problem with EC in stock with no mods using one RTG and lamps. Same exact thing : depending on the production/consumption ratio and the timwarp level, the stored EC stabilize at different points. With + 45 ec/min and -42.6 ec/min, the stored charge stabilized at 18.8/30 at 1000x. At higher timewarp levels, the lamps shut down nearly instantly  but I can briefly see the stored EC going down.

This may need further testing just to be sure, but the oxygen test results prove that it's possible to have correct values at high timewarp levels. Maybe because it's not using any stock module ?

Edit : found some info that may help :

• http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/5502
• http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122176-resource-consumptionproduction-incorrect-during-timewarp/
• http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122820-charge-level-stops-responding-when-over-100x-time-warp/
• http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/750

On 15/11/2014 at 3:46 AM, NathanKell said:

There are three relevant conditions here:

1. Vessel is not under timewarp ("loaded / off rails"). All modules work normally.

2. Vessel is under timewarp, but the active vessel ("on rails"). Charge generation and drain is sped up, with occasional bugs (fewer now that ModuleGenerator finally got fixed).

3. Vessel is unloaded (not the active vessel, not within 2.5km; i.e. you have two vessels, and this isn't the active one, or you're at the space center / tracking station / whatever): nothing happens.

From what I saw crawling trough the forums and the bugtracker, it seems that the cause is that the different modules don't update exactly at the same time.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Gotmachine

[Bonus Eventus]

@ShotgunNinja any plans to create a part module that can generate radiation, for say nuclear engines or antimatter engines? I'd love to employ shadow shields! One thought / suggestion I had was defining engine radiation separately from cosmic or solar radiation. This allows for shadow shields to only affect part driven radiation.

Put simply:

• Radiation Point Source: parts falling within a given radius have increased radiation levels (inverse square law)
• Shadow Shield: search through the vessel's part tree to find module shadow shields and calculate occlusion of any radiation point sources. (I'm imagining a collider that's defined in module shadow shield, such as occluder = name of occluder)

Jus a suggestion, maybe you already have something like this planned. Great mod btw! I'm hoping to integrate it with Mother when the time comes.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Bonus Eventus

[nosscire]

Hi,

For anyone whom is playing with Kerbalism & RemoteTech, you may have noticed that the RT antennas use ALLOT of EC. Or rather, because all solar panels have been nerfed by Kerbalism that means that it feels like the antennas use allot more power.

I made 2 different MM patches to fix this:

Lower antenna EC consumption to 1/4
Disable antenna EC consumption

Personally I just use the Disable one. As RT don't work in the background anyway, it felt weird to have an active craft consume tons allot more EC then one not active.
Maybe if RT at some point works with Kerbalism background consumption of EC i'll start using it again.

Anyway, just thought i'd share.

[New Horizons]

Do have some of you experience this mod in Realism Overhaul? 

To me, this here seems to be the future of manned karbalized space flight.

 

[Gotmachine]

Done some more tests at 100000x :

• Oxygen : I confirm that this one is calculated correctly in all cases (scrubber, no scrubber, multiple kerbals, active vessel or not)
• Food : consumption is about 10 % lower than what it should be.
• Quality of life : with a single hitchhiker (so 4 space + entertainment) and one kerbal, the kerbal turned red at 276d MET instead of the 320d announced in the planner. First "mistake" happened at 418d MET. Exactly the same results using 6 space but no entertainment (same 320d breakdown expectancy in the planner).
• Radiation : I disabled storms by setting the values to 0 in the settings.cfg and placed directly my vessel in a very high kerbin orbit. Planner life expectancy 250d, Jeb died at 250d MET.

[New Horizons]

I am more excited by this mod with every single post and maybe detected issue, which thus raises the chance of seeing an ever better evolving mod.

Is it possible to have space weather satellites closer to the sun than Earth/Kerbin and use them for radiation warnings? I am not sure whether Kerbals move into the best shielded compartment of a vessel (even with Connected Living Space installed). Do they?

And one more question of morale quality. What happens, if there is not enough place for all Kerbals in the storm shelter. Who stays for the worst case in the cupola and gets fried? We need a chain of command here. ;-)

[g00bd0g]

@Gotmachine Nice testing. It does appear to be related to the Stock bug. LOL issue #750 is from KSP version 0.2, 3 years ago!

@ShotgunNinja Provided me with a test build that does seem to resolve the issue! I'm not sure by what magic it works, and there may be some corner cases where behavior is still odd. But my kerbal space station now happily max time warps around kerbin for years at a time. Thus enabling long duration missions, Duna here I come!

What amazing response and support from the mod dev!

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by g00bd0g

[Gotmachine]

From my Kerbalism experience, the problem with EC depletion in shadow is very intermittent. It seems to me that while the incorrect EC calculations are consistent, most of the time at 100000x the game "skip" the consequences. I had a case where only one out of four kerbals died from cold on a craft orbiting Kerbin. I've also seen random and silent shutdown of the greenhouse or gravity ring when on an interplanetary trip. For now, the best way to keep this from happening is to provide a lot more batteries than necessary.

Unrelated-last-post-in-thread-edit :

It's about entertainment/comfort. Seems that it's currently calculated as a multiplicative factor on the base space provided. It feels a bit unbalanced, here are a few examples for a 4 kerbals ship, shielded at maximum :

• 1 hitchhiker + 4 cupolas (8 seats) (18 tons) : 5y389d
• 7 mk3 passenger modules (112 seats) (161 tons) : 5y110d
• 4 gravity rings at max speed (needs 2 ec/s) (4 seats) (15 tons) : 7y143d

The weight figure gets a bit less dramatic without the shielding, but still is an issue. The problem is that each comfort bonus adds up, making "comfort " parts overpowered against providing just more space which is very costly because of the required shielding. Another caveat I found while trying to make a MM patch for various non-stock parts is that you can't simply make a low-weight small comfort part because by using a bunch of them it is possible to get a ridiculously long breakdown expectancy, even if you use a 1.05 or 1.1 value. Therefore I suggest :

• To buff the "per seat" breakdown expectancy a bit
• To change the comfort bonus to be additive instead of multiplicative.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Gotmachine

[EleSigma]

I really enjoy the depth of this mod but some parts of it conflict with other mods due to how much it adds and changes so I have a minor (or major depending on the work load) request. Is it possible to have a lite version of this mod one day that would include only the space weather and radiation belts and make it configurable so that other planets could have radiation belts or extreme radiation zones added to them? I find these parts of the mod add the most life and challenge to the Kerbal Universe and it is very unique (I don't think any other mod has this). I would like to try it out with other game mechanic altering mods. Please and thank you!

Edited May 26, 2016 by EleSigma

[g00bd0g]

1 hour ago, EleSigma said:

I really enjoy the depth of this mod but some parts of it conflict with other mods due to how much it adds and changes so I have a minor (or major depending on the work load) request. Is it possible to have a lite version of this mod one day that would include only the space weather and radiation belts and make it configurable so that other planets could have radiation belts or extreme radiation zones added to them? I find these parts of the mod add the most life and challenge to the Kerbal Universe and it is very unique (I don't think any other mod has this). I would like to try it out with other game mechanic altering mods. Please and thank you!

Have you looked at the profiles yet? You may be able to configure it just how want already

[ShotgunNinja]

@Gotmachine Thanks for the detailed testing and investigations! Some throughs:

There was a problem with the sun visibility being evalued at discrete point in times at high timewarps, so anything that used sun visibility was in sunlight/shadow at random at extreme timewarps (fixed in next version by doing a poor man integration of sun visibility at extreme timewarps).

The EC level problem is probably related to this (also mentioned as reason for squad to not apply EC consumption at high timewarps): a simulation tick at max timewarp is 2400 seconds in game time, so with EC capacity of 400 any consumer/producer with a rate exceeding 0.1666 EC/s will make the numbers inconsistent. (can't fix this, or at least the fix elude me at this time).

Quality-of-life has 33% variance per-kerbal, so the time to instability can be considerably different for each Kerbal. Note that the planner doesn't consider the variance at all (this is intended). All rules can have a variance per-kerbal, but it is only set for QoL in the default profile.

For food consumption being slightly off, I think to know what's happening: food being the only 'interval-based' rule in the default profile, the problem is related to how I reset the time since last interval. This is an almost trascurable error at normal speed, but apparently start mounting up at higher timewarps. Will fix for next version.

 

@Bonus Eventus A radiation emitter module is planned for post 1.0. Can't guarantee it will be shielded by vessel parts (but it may) but it surely its effect on the crew will be scaled by distance from the manned pod.

 

@New Horizons With CLS you have to move the kerbals manually. Also the CME warning doesn't require anything from the player at this point. It would be cool to have something like the STEREO mission and only enable CME warnings if the player got them.

[casper88]

On 18/05/2016 at 3:10 PM, ShotgunNinja said:

 

@rkman There was a problem with performance from version 0.9.9.5 to version 0.9.9.7. Other than that, I see no perceptible slowdown at all with 20 vessels of various complexity. That being said an optimization pass is planned in the future.

Does kerbalism update every 10 seconds or so? I have 17 vessels out there and getting freezes every 10 seconds; I removed Kerbalism and they stopped.

 

Thanks Casper

[John Nowak]

On 5/24/2016 at 6:12 PM, ShotgunNinja said:

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by John Nowak
Broken forum software.

[John Nowak]

Apologies for that last post; the forum software inserted a quote and I couldn't figure out how to get rid of it. 

Anyway, thanks again for the mod; it's a fascinating piece of work, and I think I've been able to get it to do some things it probably wasn't intended for; I had an odd incident where I'm pretty sure it added oxygen to a solar panel, but that's entirely on me. 

I did have a question, though.

I've been looking at Quality of Life, as I have some 3rd party parts that seem they should provide some Entertainment; adding that in seems fairly straightforward. I was able to "go back in time" add 100+ days worth of Stress to one Kerbal by updating the kmon > Stress > problem field in the persistence file. 

But I'm puzzled by how Stress is removed from a Kerbal. Looking at persistence, it seems that the only way to reduce Stress is to land the Kerbal on Kerbin, which apparently resets the process. Of course Kerbals can be moved into more spacious quarters, but all that does is reduce the rate Stress increases. Am I guessing correctly?

Thanks again,

[ShotgunNinja]

@casper88 Kerbalism update every simulation step, 50 times per-second at default game settings (if i'm not mistaken). The stutter you see every 5-10 seconds is the garbage collector. Some of the optimization in next release try to minimize the temporary objects created and you should see less dramatic GC spikes.

 

@John Nowak That's correct, there is no recovery from stress. This is to force the player to rotate the crew.

[John Nowak]

14 hours ago, Gotmachine said:

The weight figure gets a bit less dramatic without the shielding, but still is an issue. The problem is that each comfort bonus adds up, making "comfort " parts overpowered against providing just more space which is very costly because of the required shielding.

I think you're on to something there. 

It's about how comfort stacks against living space. It seems to me that while living space gives a linear benefit (all else being equal, Living Space 4 is about twice as good as Living Space 2) while Entertainment stacks exponentially.

2 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

 

@John Nowak That's correct, there is no recovery from stress. This is to force the player to rotate the crew.

Thanks very much! I was speculating offline that Kerbalism presumes a "pre-colonial" stage of space flight; extended missions are possible, but living on the mun is not, any more than anyone "lives" on an oil platform.

[ShotgunNinja]

@Gotmachine, @John Nowak For the quality of life, this is the formula:

Spoiler

From settings.cfg:
  QoL_LivingSpace = 1.0               // scale living space factor up or down
  QoL_FirmGround = 0.5                // bonus to apply to quality-of-life when landed
  QoL_PhoneHome = 0.5                 // bonus to apply to quality-of-life when linked
  QoL_NotAlone = 0.5                  // bonus to apply to quality-of-life when crew count is more than 1
  
// living space factor
living_space = crew_capacity / crew_count * QoL_LivingSpace

// entertainment factor
entertainment = 1.0
foreach(part p): entertainment *= p.rate

// other factors
firm_ground = 1.0 + (landed() ? QoLFirmGround : 0.0)
phone_home = 1.0 + (linked() ? QoLPhoneHome : 0.0)
not_alone = 1.0 + (crew_count > 1 ? QoLNotAlone : 0.0)

// the final quality-of-life factor
qol_factor = entertainment * living_space * firm_ground * phone_home * not_alone

 

 

[Bonus Eventus]

2 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@Gotmachine, @John Nowak For the quality of life, this is the formula:

  Hide contents

From settings.cfg:
  QoL_LivingSpace = 1.0               // scale living space factor up or down
  QoL_FirmGround = 0.5                // bonus to apply to quality-of-life when landed
  QoL_PhoneHome = 0.5                 // bonus to apply to quality-of-life when linked
  QoL_NotAlone = 0.5                  // bonus to apply to quality-of-life when crew count is more than 1
  
// living space factor
living_space = crew_capacity / crew_count * QoL_LivingSpace

// entertainment factor
entertainment = 1.0
foreach(part p): entertainment *= p.rate

// other factors
firm_ground = 1.0 + (landed() ? QoLFirmGround : 0.0)
phone_home = 1.0 + (linked() ? QoLPhoneHome : 0.0)
not_alone = 1.0 + (crew_count > 1 ? QoLNotAlone : 0.0)

// the final quality-of-life factor
qol_factor = entertainment * living_space * firm_ground * phone_home * not_alone

 

 

Haha, that's awesome! Does living space refer to the bulkhead size of the pod?

[John Nowak]

1 minute ago, Bonus Eventus said:

Haha, that's awesome! Does living space refer to the bulkhead size of the pod?

If I'm not mistaken, 

living_space = crew_capacity / crew_count * QoL_LivingSpace

QoL_LivingSpace is set to 1 by default. So a ship with a crew_capacity of 8 and 2 crew would have living_space = 8 /2 * 1 = 4.

[ShotgunNinja]

@Bonus Eventus Yes, practically the living space factor is the number of 'seats' available for each kerbal.

 

@John Nowak That's correct.

 

I'm going to experiment with a different formula for the entertainment factor.

[John Nowak]

6 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

I'm going to experiment with a different formula for the entertainment factor.

I agree. A little bit of exponential growth can go a long, long way. 

[Bonus Eventus]

2 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@Bonus Eventus Yes, practically the living space factor is the number of 'seats' available for each kerbal.

 

@John Nowak That's correct.

 

I'm going to experiment with a different formula for the entertainment factor.

I'd like to be able to add internal props to internal models that add entertainment. Using RPM I want to make some Space Invaders like games. So it would be cool, at least for modders, if there was a hook for prop.cfg