[1.4.x-1.8.x] Airplane Plus - R26.4 (Fixed issues/Github is up to date) (Dec 21, 2019)

[Kerbalyov]

@blackheart612 Hi, i'm pretty new to KSP in general, and I really like this mod! I love the prop engines to recreate real planes, but the Audio issue really bugs me. I know you said the problem is with Firespitter, but I've used KAX and that works with stereo sound, also using the exact same kind of firespitter mod. Is there any reason why this mod doesn't work like that? thank you if you reply.

[blackheart612]

Back to boring old IVA config making, so I'm sorry if I'm bad at making IVAs. This is largely unfinished. Just to test if the IVA fits the kerbals...

I'm pretty sure you won't need to see what's blocked by the window frame there. (I also flew planes with FAR, which by the way, I'm pretty bad at)

@GhostboyDB Wanna try tweakscale and use less parts to load because I'm pretty sure you can make them by using existing parts.

@StahnAileron Well, pretty sure split flaps are possible (I think that's what they're called.) Though, how do they function? I don't know. In my brain's simulation, if I make an aileron with split flap, there would be a lot of clickables in the menu when you right click that aileron. But most of all, the flap would swing when when the aileron swings. Is that how they work in real life?

 @Citizen247 I had many questions for myself when I looked at my unity file. But it didn't seem like a reversed transform. I sure will do something about the existing intake though, might get that issue fixed.

@Kerbalyov KAX and Airplane Plus use both Firespitter for spinning propellers but KAX uses stock modules for its own sounds, which are considerably shorter than this mod's. Firespitter has its own module to delay the idle sound after a specified time. Preferrably when the engine start sound is just about to be finished, unlike stock module's which plays at the same time (the start and idle)

 

 

[Citizen247]

2 minutes ago, blackheart612 said:

 @Citizen247 I had many questions for myself when I looked at my unity file. But it didn't seem like a reversed transform. I sure will do something about the existing intake though, might get that issue fixed.

If it's any help I imported the model into Blender myself and rotated the intake transform object 180 degrees, then exported back to a .mu. That one works as expected, at least under FAR, I haven't checked it under stock.

[blackheart612]

@Citizen247 Weird, my last unity save suggests that the transform is way behind the mesh. Ah well, if It's really backwards, it will still be fixed. Messy work!  

[StahnAileron]

1 minute ago, blackheart612 said:

@StahnAileron Well, pretty sure split flaps are possible (I think that's what they're called.) Though, how do they function? I don't know. In my brain's simulation, if I make an aileron with split flap, there would be a lot of clickables in the menu when you right click that aileron. But most of all, the flap would swing when when the aileron swings. Is that how they work in real life?

Ah... I actually found a mod that has an example (Cormorant Aerospace). Seems they just made the part have 2 control surfaces. To make it split when deployed, you had to set Invert Deploy on one of them. Otherwise it was just 2 control surfaces animated around a common point/axis. (I would assume each got half of the intended actual lift value.) So yeah, the right-click menu got doubled-up.

Might be easier to ask for leading-/trailing-edge split airbrakes and make room for them on my designs. These seem more unique. (None exist for KSP, as far as I'm aware; they're all surface attached.) Well, assuming you don't need to double up on airbrakes to make it animate properly for those that use them for pitch/yaw control.

BTW, have you looked at or know of @linuxgurugamer's RetractableLiftingSurface plug-in? I think I'm not the only one in the KSP community itching for folding or variable geometry wings. (Especially if the plugin supports 2 lift states rather than just on/off.) The prime example I know of is a wing in the SXT part mod. Not much else exists that uses it. (I asked once and he mentions 2-3 other mods.)

[blackheart612]

@StahnAileron I don't think inverting would be necessary with some hocus pocus. But if it's a control surface and it has a flap that can split from it, whenever the control surface moves, the flap would move with it. And the swing wings have been a discussion a few pages back. And the fact that I have the one plug-in dependency (Firespitter) rule should be known for people that have been discussing stuff here. So it's either a firespitter feature or stock feature that I'll make things.

[XOC2008]

9 minutes ago, blackheart612 said:

@StahnAileron I don't think inverting would be necessary with some hocus pocus. But if it's a control surface and it has a flap that can split from it, whenever the control surface moves, the flap would move with it. And the swing wings have been a discussion a few pages back. And the fact that I have the one plug-in dependency (Firespitter) rule should be known for people that have been discussing stuff here. So it's either a firespitter feature or stock feature that I'll make things.

I'm messing with an older mod of real world planes that have some swing wing examples, updating some to work in 1.2.2. They had FSanimateGeneric for the swing wings at first but it looped, so I changed it to ModuleAnimateGeneric and it was fine, so it's doable with stock.

[blackheart612]

@XOC2008 Many things are possible in stock if you're clever enough  

[StahnAileron]

3 minutes ago, XOC2008 said:

I'm messing with an older mod of real world planes that have some swing wing examples, updating some to work in 1.2.2. They had FSanimateGeneric for the swing wings at first but it looped, so I changed it to ModuleAnimateGeneric and it was fine, so it's doable with stock.

Animating a wing is the easy part. Modifying its lift properties to reflect the effects of that animation is the hard part. The one wing in SXT I mentioned used to use the stock system. It generated lift even when folded up.

Granted, you could do this with IR parts (since IR needs to give KSP updates on what it's changing), but they suffer from joint strength issues. (Well, and IR isn't fully 1.2.x-ready anyway.)

[blackheart612]

@StahnAileron You should now that ModuleAeroSurface isn't a 0 or 1 lift toggle. It's a rotation of the lift section, but the lift is constantly there.

(So what I'm saying is something can be done is stock, but it's going to be limited)

[StahnAileron]

Hmm... Ah, I get that. That's how the control surfaces work. But can you use it to change the aero values for wings that physically change shapes? (Like an F-14/F-111/Tornado/B-1/Tu-144 sweeping its wings to move the CoL rearward.) It's just a rotation of the aero force; you can't perform a translation of that force, right?

[blackheart612]

@StahnAileron I can't assure you what it can do to a certain extent because I haven't tried it yet (nor am I in focus on it at the moment) but there's a small but significant chance that it will work. I have an idea on how to manipulate the CoL, but it shall come in a much later time. The one thing I don't like with moving parts is you can't attach things to them, so they are used just a they are.

[StahnAileron]

Just now, blackheart612 said:

@StahnAileron I can't assure you what it can do to a certain extent because I haven't tried it yet (nor am I in focus on it at the moment) but there's a small but significant chance that it will work. I have an idea on how to manipulate the CoL, but it shall come in a much later time. The one thing I don't like with moving parts is you can't attach things to them, so they are used just a they are.

Oh, then I wish you well on those ideas. As for animated parts: yeah, I understand your feeling there. I kinda feel the same way, but I've long gotten used to making sure I have clearance for animations. If I need to attach something to the animated section of a part... Well, IR comes in for that. Still, most functional parts with animation aren't intended to be used structurally as well, in my experience. I will admit that animated wings could/would cross that line though.

[FlyHighAviator]

I've benn gone for a day, and there are two pages added to the thread xD, but to the point, i really like those VTOL prop engines because several mods have them but they don't look as good. And looking forward to the landing gear!

[qromodynmc]

i wonder landing gear too, i hope it wont be blocky as alg, and ugly as stock wheels.

[Citizen247]

So I've been working on something that I'm nearing the point of releasing myself:

I was wondering if @blackheart612 would mind if I added made some razorback versions of some of Airplane Plus's cockpits as well?

[blackheart612]

@Citizen247 I encourage people to patch up things that I may not implement or will probably implement but not in the near future. But I have a plan to implement razorbacks (not yet for next release, probably going to be with landing gears) so although that looks pretty awesome, we might get redundant features.

[Citizen247]

3 minutes ago, blackheart612 said:

@Citizen247 I encourage people to patch up things that I may not implement or will probably implement but not in the near future. But I have a plan to implement razorbacks (not yet for next release, probably going to be with landing gears) so although that looks pretty awesome, we might get redundant features.

Fair enough, I'll leave it to you then. I just recall reading that you weren't planning on doing it at one point, I probably misread :).

[blackheart612]

@Citizen247 It's because it's going to be a multi-purpose part, not just usable as a razorback. So you didn't misread.

[Shadowmage]

@blackheart612  I was wondering what Firespitter features you are currently using for this mod, and if you would have any interest in using an alternative plugin if one were available?

Mostly I was asking as I had intended on creating a few propeller and helicopter rotor parts for KerbalFoundries, but then ran across this wonderfully done mod that already has most of the parts that I would have created (plus some!).  The one thing keeping me from using it or recommending it?  Firespitter.  It seems to no longer be under development, with every release it seems that more and more of the old features/functions simply don't work, and good luck getting new features added.

As I was already planning on writing custom modules for the parts I was planning on making, I figured I would see if you had any interest in using a alternative plugin to FS; one that would be under active development, focusing on the features that would be needed specifically for propeller and rotor driven motors, with the possibility of new features being developed if needed.  If this would meet your needs or not would depend on what other features from FS you use, if any (texture set swapping, resource switching, ??).

As a 'bonus'(?), I could potentially combine the new 'rotor-motor' plugin with KSPWheels plugin, so that you could keep your 'one plugin' rule, without having to resort to using the terrible stock wheel system .

Edit:  Nevermind (see posts below).  I'll just keep doing my own thing...

Edited March 27, 2017 by Shadowmage

[TheRagingIrishman]

@Shadowmage while the parts from Firespitter haven't been updated since forever ago, @RoverDude is still actively maintaining the plugin side of it (he released a new version less than 3 months ago). Still, love the work you did fixing wheels and would be interested to see what you could do with props.

Edited March 27, 2017 by TheRagingIrishman

[RoverDude]

@Shadowmage / @blackheart612 - pretty much what @TheRagingIrishman said.  I do maintain the plugin, it's the parts that need sorted.  But a lot more folks use Firespitter for the plugin part.

Now, if there's a bit that's broken on the code side, you're always welcome to toss a PR on Snjo's repo as I have full access there and take in pull requests before pushing releases.  Probably better than more fragmentation IMO.

 

(Edit)

And for the record, I've Kept Firespitter as one of those day-zero updates for quite a while now, given I have a vested interest in it since it's a core dependency of a lot of my stuff.  And being on the Squad staff does help a bit with that (and also reduces risk of abandonment).

Edited March 27, 2017 by RoverDude

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

@Shadowmage / @blackheart612 - pretty much what @TheRagingIrishman said.  I do maintain the plugin, it's the parts that need sorted.  But a lot more folks use Firespitter for the plugin part.

Now, if there's a bit that's broken on the code side, you're always welcome to toss a PR on Snjo's repo as I have full access there and take in pull requests before pushing releases.  Probably better than more fragmentation IMO.

 

(Edit)

And for the record, I've Kept Firespitter as one of those day-zero updates for quite a while now, given I have a vested interest in it since it's a core dependency of a lot of my stuff.  And being on the Squad staff does help a bit with that (and also reduces risk of abandonment).

Thanks for the correction and information.  I wasn't aware that the more airplane centered plugin features had received much attention in recent months(years?); that is good to know.  I'll certainly take a look at what FS has to offer, and if needed can put in PR's for additions/fixes/changes.  I don't need to be reinventing a system if a perfectly good one already exists.

No offense intended to either @RoverDude or @blackheart612; I thought I was already going to be doing the coding work, and wanted to see if there was interest in collaboration towards the feature set.  I suppose, rather, that I can extend an offer to @blackheart612 to do a few PRs for fixes or features in Firespitter (if needed).  Feel free to contact me through PM if you have anything in mind at the moment.  I'll move any further talks of plugin related stuff over to the FS thread.

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Thanks for the correction and information.  I wasn't aware that the more airplane centered plugin features had received much attention in recent months(years?); that is good to know.  I'll certainly take a look at what FS has to offer, and if needed can put in PR's for additions/fixes/changes.  I don't need to be reinventing a system if a perfectly good one already exists.

No offense intended to either @RoverDude or @blackheart612; I thought I was already going to be doing the coding work, and wanted to see if there was interest in collaboration towards the feature set.  I suppose, rather, that I can extend an offer to @blackheart612 to do a few PRs for fixes or features in Firespitter (if needed).  Feel free to contact me through PM if you have anything in mind at the moment.  I'll move any further talks of plugin related stuff over to the FS thread.

No offense taken at all   and PRs are really appreciated as it's a lot of work (as I am sure you know), and it's a plugin that benefits many people, so as a community it's one I'd like to ensure remains around for years to come.

[Drew Kerman]

11 hours ago, blackheart612 said:

so I'm sorry if I'm bad at making IVAs.

No one should ever apologize for making IVAs