What Facts Do We Know About The Devs Leaving?

[kiwi1960]

20 hours ago, Mycroft said:

Ok, cool. You don’t need to visit this thread if you are tired of hearing about this. I sympathize greatly with how tired you are of this dead horse being beaten again and again, but it’s harder for me to just walk away from a thread I started. Just please try to retain some tact. I know how hard it is. Tact is actually a personal hardship for me. I struggle greatly to have any at all. So I sympathize with you, I just think that the more civil everyone is, the more quickly this will be over, and the sooner SQUAD will feel its safe enough to perhaps help us understand some things.

Choose your words with care lest @5thHorseman takes offence....

(about the dead horse being beaten again and again... )

[Mycroft]

11 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

Choose your words with care lest @5thHorseman takes offence....

(about the dead horse being beaten again and again... )

What? I have a feeling I'm missing the obvious reason why that joke is funny. I mean, I know @5thHorseman started the original thread dedicated to this topic, but I'm not sure how this is funny. I'm sorry. I feel stupid right now. 

[Superfluous J]

4 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

What? I have a feeling I'm missing the obvious reason why that joke is funny. I mean, I know @5thHorseman started the original thread dedicated to this topic, but I'm not sure how this is funny. I'm sorry. I feel stupid right now. 

I believe it's the word "horse" in my name. An attempt at levity that - as many of mine tend to do - seems to have backfired.

(For the record I'm pretty hard to offend, and have almost no experience with actual horses)

[Mycroft]

2 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I believe it's the word "horse" in my name. An attempt at levity that - as many of mine tend to do - seems to have backfired.

(For the record I'm pretty hard to offend, and have almost no experience with actual horses)

Ooohhhhh!!! Now I get it! That's one of those jokes that I'll remember at odd moments like formal dinners and start cracking up seemingly randomly...

It is funny. Cheesy, but funny.

[Camacha]

1 hour ago, kiwi1960 said:

you also have an obligation stick to that facts...

Why do you imagine that? The community has the right to be critical. If people feel they have not been presented a representative portion of the facts, why should they have to act as if that is the case?

1 hour ago, kiwi1960 said:

all I have seen is 5% facts.. 95% speculation, assumptions and libel!

Squad seems to be the one who controls the facts here. What we have gotten so far is fairly sparse. We have heard the story from one side and a deafening silence from the other. No attempt seems to be made to clarify or explain things. Squad is under no obligation to explain themselves, but it seems to hurt them ever more not to do so.

[Vanamonde]

Keep it on-topic, please. Personal remarks about each other are not generally helpful, and tend to make the other party angry. 

[pandaman]

Based on the 'evidence' I have seen on the forums etc and my own interpretation of such evidence, here is my THEORY for a likely scenario...

Squad decided the time was right to bring more of the development into one centralised location (Mexico city, naturally)  due to the difficulties, and costs, of having a large proportion of the devs all over the world and not all speaking the same language (Spanish on this case).  I do have some personal experience of working in a situation where 'creatives' worked from home, and in some cases overseas, and it does cause some communication difficulties, and inefficiency,  and not just due to language.

To achieve this they needed to ensure the code base was as clean, efficient and well documented as possible.  With a huge bonus that this also improves game performance.  So they employed people with the skills to do this on a temporary contract for that specific task, hence the appearance of very skilled modders in the team. 

Once done the temporary staff, naturally, go back to their previous existences, and perhaps new projects with other companies (that's how temporary contractors work).

The longer term employees, and probably the temps too, would quite possibly have been offered  the opportunity to join the team in Mexico or, depending on circumstances, continue with the current arrangements in some form. 

Those that left simply chose not to accept the offer that was made, for any number of personal reasons, and moved on.

The enthusiasm and professionalism of all the devs, was truly awesome, and beyond the 'call of duty', right up to the announcement of their leaving.  That, to me indicates, that they were happy with the working conditions and arrangements.

Yes, it seemed odd that the departing devs did not say farewell on the forums directly, as others have done before, which seems to have fueled speculation, but that's more likely a 'communication glitch', poor judgement or oversight, not in itself hard evidence of an evil empire.

Tl;dr...  No deep conspiracy,  just normal business and the needs of such business to adapt in order to continue.

 

 

[Mycroft]

4 hours ago, Camacha said:

Squad seems to be the one who controls the facts here. What we have gotten so far is fairly sparse. We have heard the story from one side and a deafening silence from the other. No attempt seems to be made to clarify or explain things. Squad is under no obligation to explain themselves, but it seems to hurt them ever more not to do so.

The silence is frustrating, yes I'll admit, but honestly that's really our fault, not SQUADs. They already assured us the situation was fine, and the Devs left under positive circumstances, and everyone dismisses it as corporate speak. What do you want them to say? Would it be better if they said: "oh by the way we're mistreating all our employees, and some got sick of it and left."? Honestly I feel sorry for SQUAD staff on the forums, because they are in a lose/lose situation. Think about it. They stayed silent, and everyone and their cousin jumps on it as proof of guilt. They released a positive statement, and everyone jumped on it and almost went as far as to call it an outright lie, and accused them of covering up. And just think what would happen if SQUAD were to 'confess' to having an evil empire. Totally apart from whether or not it was true, no one would ever work for them again, and next to no one would buy their products. So pretty much it's take scathing criticism and wild rumors, or commit suicide. Frankly, I think SQUAD chose well. I think we should let up on SQUAD and the wild haters who do their thing no matter what, declare a truce, settle down, and once the dust settles, who knows? Maybe finally the Devs who left could afford to show their faces on the forums again without being killed or letting the community kill SQUAD. Maybe then SQUAD could finally tell us exactly why they left. At this point, I think the best move is to hunker down, wait for the drama to blow itself out, and then approach the situation like civilized, rational beings. 

So. 

Truce?

[kiwi1960]

On 7/10/2016 at 9:23 PM, 5thHorseman said:

I believe it's the word "horse" in my name. An attempt at levity that - as many of mine tend to do - seems to have backfired.

(For the record I'm pretty hard to offend, and have almost no experience with actual horses)

I have a Shetland pony, white, that mows my lawn for me. The only problem is his....errrr.... exhaust... unlike a motor mower, his is hard and stinks and dirties your shoes should you step in in.

His name is Sparky and I consider him one of the finest pets I have ever had, even if he doesn't actually belong to me.

I agree with the latest comments in here.... especially from @pandaman

Peace.... at any rate... I hope the fuss dies down soon.

Edited October 8, 2016 by kiwi1960

[pandaman]

22 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

I have a Shetland pony, white, that mows my lawn for me. The only problem is his....errrr.... exhaust... unlike a motor mower, his is hard and stinks and dirties your shoes should you step in it...

 

I have enough trouble with local cats dropping 'exhaust' on my small lawn.

 Ponies!  No thanks.

Mind you, I may just be be able to forgive @5thHorseman one 'transgression' as he's such an awesome dude, but I'm not telling him where I live, just in case... 

[Randazzo]

Oh, this is still going. Neat.

5 hours ago, Camacha said:

Squad seems to be the one who controls the facts here. What we have gotten so far is fairly sparse. We have heard the story from one side and a deafening silence from the other. No attempt seems to be made to clarify or explain things. Squad is under no obligation to explain themselves, but it seems to hurt them ever more not to do so.

This is not really the case. The letter from the departing developers said good things. Roverdude (who I think I shall personally refer to as "Sir Robert of the Thickest Skin" henceforth) said good things. Squad said good things. There are facts out there, but they go unheeded in favor of conspiracy. I know my post won't change anything, people seem to want drama and will evidently invent it as necessary.

Since they're buried:

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 0:27 PM, UomoCapra said:

 

 

 

Hello guys!

I understand your concerns. This whole situation has become very controversial, especially because you all know the guys who decided to part ways and they've been active on the forum for a long time. There's people that have maliciously and anonymously talked bad about the company, but I can tell you that in my personal perspective (not Squad's but my own), that's simply not true.

All my colleagues are hard working and passionate people that care about KSP. Our team is solid, talented and professional; we all want KSP to be successful, are incredibly proud of what we have achieved so far and are extremely excited about what’s coming next.

PD: We did say goodbye, we wish them well and we'll be always thankful for all the time, passion and effort they put into the game.

 

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 0:27 PM, nestor said:

Hello,

I like the original intention of this post, listing facts and rumors.

I want to add with a few facts that I can confirm with my role as the Game Producer for KSP.

Fact: Chris (porkjet) left a few weeks ago in a totally unrelated event. He told me he had a new working opportunity. Not sure why he is listed with the rest of the group.

Fact: Sebastian (sarbian) was invited as a temporal dev to help fixing bugs until 1.2 was released

Fact: From the remaining 6 devs, 2 were working part time on KSP

Fact: 1.3 is confirmed, there are already devs working on this new version

Fact: Squad has been looking for new devs since june, new people are already working and more are coming

Fact: RoverDude (or any other team member) was not forced to make any comment about this topic

Fact: The team actually grew in comparison to the beginning of the year, even after these departures

 

These are just facts, I am not making any judgement. I was great working with all of them and I wish them the best of luck on their future endeavours.

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Randazzo

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, Mycroft said:

Think about it. They stayed silent, and everyone and their cousin jumps on it as proof of guilt. They released a positive statement, and everyone jumped on it and almost went as far as to call it an outright lie, and accused them of covering up.

I like your post, but let's maybe not lump everyone in this group.  There's some loud, angry people; some confused; some ambivalent.  With a few days behind us, I'm willing to believe the simplest answer.  Their contracts expired, production is winding down, and Squad decided / they decided not to renew said contracts.  My hype is returning for 1.2.  Let's go, Tuesday!

Edited October 8, 2016 by klgraham1013

[wossname]

Did the astronauts bicker when Apollo was taken over by the Nixon administration?  No because they weren't green, and 10% as big as humans.  Also they had snacks.

AROOOOOOO!!!!! You'll stay in there until you learn your place!

[Wjolcz]

I feel like there's been something going seriously wrong in SQUAD. The developers are leaving lik crazy recently. I feel like this game will never be fully finished which is a shame because it was one of its kind and had a lot of potential.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Veeltch

[klgraham1013]

1 minute ago, Veeltch said:

I feel like there's been something going seriously wrong in SQUAD. The developers are leaving lik crazy recently. I feel like this game will never be fully finished which is a shame because it was one of its kind and had a lot of potential.

1.2 looks pretty good, and there's nothing stopping another company from taking a shot at the genre.

[HoloYolo]

10 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

I feel like there's been something going seriously wrong in SQUAD. The developers are leaving lik crazy recently. I feel like this game will never be fully finished which is a shame because it was one of its kind and had a lot of potential.

The devs actually left over a period of months, they were just announced all at one time. Also, there's more devs in SQUAD right now even after they left.

[regex]

It's pretty clear from NathanKell's statement that those leaving left for their own personal reasons, they were not canned. Whatever the reasons were, it was their choice.

[Andem]

14 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

Who said louder? I'd just prefer less assumptions and conspiracies... facts are always preferred.

As far as I go, you are entitled to your opinion, welcome to it... but is it based on fact or fiction?

Perhaps I should be more clear. People spouting lies as facts who are louder do not negate the rest who speak. 

[Bandus]

21 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

So..... why wasn't this posted HERE in the first place, and why have the mdoerators, all respect to them, allowed the situation to get so out of hand?

I know the concept of free speech... BUT... that isn't entirely true... its what I call "Freedom of speech with respect"... you can say what you like, provided you do not lie, or defame or post anything that can harm another person (or company in this case) and do you so by following the laws against defamation, slander and hate crimes....

Example.... I can say the devs concerned QUIT.... but I'd have to show proof that was the case because no where does it say they quit... further, I can claim I have freedom of speech, but no, I don't... its libel... against the devs who left Squad and Squad itself...

So.... Why the hell was this allowed to go on for so long and get so out of hand? Why didn't Squad post that HERE.... isn't this THEIR home as well?

Now I feel they have deserted us... they don't care about these forums... they tell strangers and not us??????

 

 

Its not going to die down any time soon... just like the ones saying the game is dead has been going on for months now...

Sorry for the double post, I assumed (wrongly) that they would be merged.

I have to agree with @kiwi1960.  This is the first I've seen of this statement from Squad and I find it unfortunate that I had to see it in a quote that came from another site entirely. This issue is particularly salient to me but it also makes me wonder what other communications I may have missed. 

[Camacha]

11 hours ago, Mycroft said:

The silence is frustrating, yes I'll admit, but honestly that's really our fault, not SQUADs. They already assured us the situation was fine, and the Devs left under positive circumstances, and everyone dismisses it as corporate speak. What do you want them to say?

Nothing they say can mitigate the situation. Only words from the people who left can do that, but they seem incapable of providing any comment. Squad could only help the situation by publicly relieving former employees of NDA restrictions regarding the work conditions.

Anyone knows that a case cannot be judged until both parties have been heard. We do know that one party seems to have the upper hand in deciding who is heard. We have heard nothing to take away the worries concerning the people who left. We have heard no denial that these people are not allowed to speak. We have only heard everything is right and dandy within the remaining team. We have not even heard any of the previous employees respectfully declining to comment. They appear to have disappeared from the face of the Earth.

Of course, it can be considered a courtesy not to comment on employees that left. I would do the same and can only applaud that. However, not commenting on employees does not mean not communicating about the situation at all. That goes for both sides. It would be so easy to defuse the situation if nothing is wrong.

 

10 hours ago, Randazzo said:

Oh, this is still going. Neat.

This is not really the case. The letter from the departing developers said good things. Roverdude (who I think I shall personally refer to as "Sir Robert of the Thickest Skin" henceforth) said good things. Squad said good things. There are facts out there, but they go unheeded in favor of conspiracy.

Nonsense. Everyone knows acknowledges these things. However, Roverdude did not leave. The only story we have heard is coming from Squad or people still associated with them. Even though I believe the that Roverdude is sincere, the story remains very one-sided that way. This has lead to suspicions and will lead to continued suspicions.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Camacha

[Wallygator]

14 hours ago, Randazzo said:

people seem to want drama

I disagree.  People want clarity.

The 'former devs' left for a reason - yet that reason has not been revealed and likely never will be. This 'drama' leaves a vacuum.

Squad has not effectively communicated.  They have not done so in the past regarding similar matters, and it is also likely that they will continue the same behaviour.

The community will not change its ways either.  If an information vacuum is created, then the user community will probably fill the vacuum with whatever entertains them.

At some point, squad must either adapt its business model to sustain a competent cadre of devs that the community can grow accustomed to, or it must accept that if it continues its current behaviour then it will continue to invite  user community reactions as we currently see.

[Columbia]

12 hours ago, HoloYolo said:

The devs actually left over a period of months, they were just announced all at one time. Also, there's more devs in SQUAD right now even after they left.

Where did you get this information?

[HoloYolo]

Just now, Columbia said:

Where did you get this information?

give me a few minutes. it was from a dev.

• Game Producer
•  
• 
• SQUAD staff
•  106
• 6 posts

 

Posted Thursday at 01:27 PM · Report post

Hello,

I like the original intention of this post, listing facts and rumors.

I want to add with a few facts that I can confirm with my role as the Game Producer for KSP.

Fact: Chris (porkjet) left a few weeks ago in a totally unrelated event. He told me he had a new working opportunity. Not sure why he is listed with the rest of the group.

Fact: Sebastian (sarbian) was invited as a temporal dev to help fixing bugs until 1.2 was released

Fact: From the remaining 6 devs, 2 were working part time on KSP

Fact: 1.3 is confirmed, there are already devs working on this new version

Fact: Squad has been looking for new devs since june, new people are already working and more are coming

Fact: RoverDude (or any other team member) was not forced to make any comment about this topic

Fact: The team actually grew in comparison to the beginning of the year, even after these departures

 

These are just facts, I am not making any judgement. I was great working with all of them and I wish them the best of luck on their future endeavours.

[razark]

2 hours ago, Wallygator said:

Squad has not effectively communicated.

Because they have no reason to, nor does anyone here have any reason to expect them to communicate about this matter.

That's like saying Squad has not been very forward about posting naked selfies of their staff.  Of course they haven't, and no one here would think it appropriate to ask them to.

[Andem]

1 hour ago, razark said:

Because they have no reason to, nor does anyone here have any reason to expect them to communicate about this matter.

That's like saying Squad has not been very forward about posting naked selfies of their staff.  Of course they haven't, and no one here would think it appropriate to ask them to.

What. How can you even make that comparison? Especially in response to the statement you're addressing?