totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Gilph]

Hi, having a weird issue with Supplies on my Minmus base.  Will attempt to get a USI save working.

I have Kerbals in three bases in my colony: Agro base (making supplies), ASM base (making water), and Miner Base (drilling). All bases have supplies and there are supplies in PL. Every 5 sec, The PL Supplies inventory oscillates between a lower number and a higher number, like: 1497, 1816, 1480, 1799.  Each time, the higher number and lower number are reduced by 17. The ASM and Miner consume about 17.4 supplies per day total, so maybe the catch-up processing is doing that.

But, the AM Base (two 3.75 AMs) is consuming 13 supplies per day and is running 1 agroponics bay at 727% and three Cultivate (S) bays at 727% each. That is a lot of supply production.  That number should be increasing, regardless of if it's regular or catchup.  And, only Supplies are oscillating, no other resource is doing this.

Eventually, my PL supplies will go to zero, but since I have a net positive supplies production, PL will slowly start to increase again if I keep the flight scene at this colony.

I hope this makes some sort of sense.  I will look to reproduce better, but I have to wait on getting PL surplus again.  In this case, I was doing things in Duna for the first few game days before I visited this base, so the catchup processing may be a good candidate.

Thanks

[jd284]

Flow priorities are a setting for each resource, not for the part. So that'd have to be done in CRP (and IMO should be set for Supplies, Mulch, Machinery, Recyclables and Organics).

(This was for @dboi88, forgot to quote)

[dboi88]

On 1/10/2017 at 4:37 AM, TinoR said:

First of all I'd like to thank you, RoverDude, for this and other amazing mods.

Not sure if I found a bug or I'm doing something wrong: It seems that during catch up recyclers aren't taken into account.

Basically I put 3 kerbals, 500 supplies and 3 recyclers into orbit, when I start the recyclers the supplies countdown increases to 53 days, as expected.

Then I time warp in the tracking station for 5 days: 48 days of supplies left.

But when I get back to the vessel, there are only 41 days of supplies left and 162 supplies were consumed, the exact amount for 3 kerbals during 5 days and no recyclers working.

 

5 minutes ago, Gilph said:

Hi, having a weird issue with Supplies on my Minmus base.  Will attempt to get a USI save working.

I have Kerbals in three bases in my colony: Agro base (making supplies), ASM base (making water), and Miner Base (drilling). All bases have supplies and there are supplies in PL. Every 5 sec, The PL Supplies inventory oscillates between a lower number and a higher number, like: 1497, 1816, 1480, 1799.  Each time, the higher number and lower number are reduced by 17. The ASM and Miner consume about 17.4 supplies per day total, so maybe the catch-up processing is doing that.

But, the AM Base (two 3.75 AMs) is consuming 13 supplies per day and is running 1 agroponics bay at 727% and three Cultivate (S) bays at 727% each. That is a lot of supply production.  That number should be increasing, regardless of if it's regular or catchup.  And, only Supplies are oscillating, no other resource is doing this.

Eventually, my PL supplies will go to zero, but since I have a net positive supplies production, PL will slowly start to increase again if I keep the flight scene at this colony.

I hope this makes some sort of sense.  I will look to reproduce better, but I have to wait on getting PL surplus again.  In this case, I was doing things in Duna for the first few game days before I visited this base, so the catchup processing may be a good candidate.

Thanks

Could this be the same issue? @Gilph can you do the math and see if it makes sense that it is the recylers not taking into account while not focused, if it is throw a USI save onto the LS github tracker.

9 minutes ago, jd284 said:

Flow priorities are a setting for each resource, not for the part. So that'd have to be done in CRP (and IMO should be set for Supplies, Mulch, Machinery, Recyclables and Organics).

 This setting is per part.

[jd284]

13 minutes ago, dboi88 said:

 This setting is per part.
 

Yes but Organics are not set to obey flow priorities. None of the CRP resources are, currently.

So they just flow like they did before 1.2.

[dboi88]

17 minutes ago, jd284 said:

Yes but Organics are not set to obey flow priorities. None of the CRP resources are, currently.

So they just flow like they did before 1.2.

Ahh I never knew that. Cheers

19 hours ago, Bluejay said:

I am seeing behavior that I don't understand from components with electrical storage and resource containers when warehousing is enabled. When the container reaches 90% full with either electricity or some resource it instantly drops to 50% full. Is this normal? Are the materials 'going somewhere' that I don't know to look? This is occurring with a ship I have landed on Minmus. There is nothing else on the planet other than that one ship. It is happening with resource containers and the electrical charge on the batteries in the wheeled storage component.

Thanks.

What parts were you using? I can't find any warehouse enabled parts that include electricity. Have you got all the latest releases?

[Gilph]

1 minute ago, dboi88 said:

Could this be the same issue? @Gilph can you do the math and see if it makes sense that it is the recylers not taking into account while not focused, if it is throw a USI save onto the LS github tracker.

Hi, thanks for the reply.  The math is not matching up at the moment with respect to the recyclers.

With the colony active, I set a timer for exactly one day and looked at how many supplies were created, also taking into account that Kerbals were also consuming. Supplies were increased by 307 and 30.3 were consumed with functioning recyclers, so 337.3 supplies should have been created.  7 Kerbals total, without recycling, is 75.6 consumed per day, so I am still 261.7 net positive.   I can't fit that 261.7 number or the 75.6 number anywhere at the moment.

At T0, I had 1497 in PL;T+5 had 1816, an increase of 319; T+10 had 1480, 17 less than T0;T+15 had 1799, another increase of 319.

What does the math suggest? At every other 5 sec point, it looks like it adds the amount of supplies created per day, minus 17.  On the alternate 5 sec. points, it just subtracted the 17. So my first thought is why do I seem to be losing one day out of every 2 in my supplies production?  I should never be going net negative in Supplies consumption for any reason,

I'll post when the save is ready, but still not sure how to trigger it.

Thanks

 

[mavric1298]

16 hours ago, mavric1298 said:

Heres the player.log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sdxbxd8l7eohamz/Player.log?dl=0

Tested on another machine - and same results; wonder if it's something with Sierra 10.12.3 (beta)...I'll try running on a non beta install next.

[TauPhraim]

Are recyclers intended to be shared kolony-wide ? I saw posts here saying not. But looking into the code, trying to understand (potential) problems, I saw stuff hinting that they actually might be shared. 

[dboi88]

12 minutes ago, TauPhraim said:

Are recyclers intended to be shared kolony-wide ? I saw posts here saying not. But looking into the code, trying to understand (potential) problems, I saw stuff hinting that they actually might be shared. 

Issue #209 Related to USI -LS

[TauPhraim]

1 minute ago, dboi88 said:

Issue #209 Related to USI -LS

They still are shared, at least apparently in intent, and according to master branch of USI-LS. But my suspicion was that maybe they are "half shared", and this could be the cause of various problems people are reporting. That's why I wanted to know the intent.

[dboi88]

1 minute ago, TauPhraim said:

They still are shared, at least apparently in intent, and according to master branch of USI-LS. But my suspicion was that maybe they are "half shared", and this could be the cause of various problems people are reporting. That's why I wanted to know the intent.

Personally i'm not certain on the history of shared vs not shared, but i think the general consensus is that currently they should be. That's a good suggestion as to what might be causing some of the issues.

[TauPhraim]

5 minutes ago, dboi88 said:

Personally i'm not certain on the history of shared vs not shared, but i think the general consensus is that currently they should be. That's a good suggestion as to what might be causing some of the issues.

I have no gameplay opinion on that, but shared sure sounds more complicated to implement

[sh1pman]

21 minutes ago, TauPhraim said:

I have no gameplay opinion on that, but shared sure sounds more complicated to implement

It was already implemented, but broke at some point.

[Electrocutor]

Updated the reflections for USI windows. It now properly works with the life support transparent cupolas now too.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_LTOcS7EtOyVEF6WUhPQzN6RzA

[jd284]

29 minutes ago, Electrocutor said:

Updated the reflections for USI windows. It now properly works with the life support transparent cupolas now too.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_LTOcS7EtOyVEF6WUhPQzN6RzA

Holy... It's Beautiful!.

Now I need to go find that for the other parts in my base.

[revolioclockbergjr]

I am also having recycler math problems. But I'm playing with tons of mods and this is my first time with USI/MKS, so my first thought is that I'm just doing things wrong.

Here's my math workflow -- I would love to have this truly figured out! Intending for this to be copy/pastable into someone's own notes, leaving the bold stuff and filling in the rest for their own situation.

~~~~~~~

HOW TO MINIMIZE YOUR SUPPLIES USAGE:

This worksheet tells you how many recyclers you need on your vessel to achieve the lowest rate of supplies consumption.

ALL VALUES PER SECOND UNLESS SPECIFIED

• Set a headcount goal:

30 kerbals, in orbit, not dead, for a while.

• Identify the vessel's most efficient recycler (see: Recycler Math on USI-LS wiki):

Tundra 3.75 Habitation Module, in Recycler mode, for efficiency of 86.5%, covering 4 kerbals.

• Determine the life support "floor" (theoretical supplies consumed if ALL kerbals were covered by the most efficient recycler, above). This is the lowest rate of supplies consumption possible on this vessel:

kerbal_headcount * consumption_rate * ( 1 - highest_efficiency ) = floor

30 * 0.0005 * ( 1 - 0.865 ) = 0.002025 supplies/second

floor = 0.002025 supplies/second

• Determine the life support "baseline" (theoretical supplies consumption if the most efficient recycler were the only one present). This is the rate of supplies consumption after considering the effect of the best recycler, but with no additional mitigation:

best_recycler_coverage * consumption rate * ( 1 - highest_efficiency ) + ( kerbal_headcount - best_recycler_coverage ) * consumption_rate = baseline

4 * 0.0005 * ( 1 - 0.865 ) + ( 30 - 4 ) * 0.0005 = 0.013 supplies/second

baseline = 0.013 supplies/second

• Subtract the floor value from the baseline value. This represents the rate of supplies consumption that you can mitigate with additional recyclers.

baseline - floor = best_possible_mitigation

0.013 - 0.002025 = 0.010975 supplies/second

best_possible_mitigation = 0.010975 supplies/second

• Divide that value by the mitigation provided one RT-500 recycler part. This represents the number of additional RT-500 recyclers you'll need on the vessel to hit the "floor," or lowest possible consumption rate.

best_possible_mitigation / RT500_rate = RT500s_needed

0.010975 / 0.0003 = 37 recyclers needed  <-- round up

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This follows precisely the math from the wiki, but that may be outdated for all I know. Also, I haven't accounted for efficiency -- I don't know how efficiency math works at all.

 

What I do know is, my station with 30 kerbals sees no benefit from the 37 RT-500 recyclers and 3.75 Tundra Hab Recycler on board. Supplies consumption appears to ignore them entirely.

 

My cargo pilots are whining about the extra supplies shipments, but all I care about is whether my math makes sense.

Edited January 19, 2017 by revolioclockbergjr

[RoverDude]

Thread catch up time!

First - Recyclers will be fixed (that is, Kerbals will share them disconnected) in the next patch.

Second - thanks everyone who's helped out providing answers  Nine times out of ten, by the time I get to the thread someone has already answered stuff - which leaves me more time to work on the mod (more of that later).

@benad  you are very welcome, glad you dig the mod

@Temeriki - interesting idea, my concern is that it would make some stuff *really* complex.  Hence why I dropped any variance for bravery/stupidity.  it was just too many moving parts.  But thank you for the suggestion.

Turing on tethers simly causes a grouded vessel to stick in place.  No extra thing to attach, all MKS modules have this capability.

@Electrocutor - for missing textures, etc. the very best way to solve this is to send a PR to the correct repo  Regarding consolidation, as noted I am really careful about that.  I have some planned, but not many.  The structure and granularity has worked out pretty well for me and for folks using the mods.

@voicey99 - A general USI thread sounds like a good idea, I'll sort that

@DStaal - The new logistics stuff is still on the horizon, it's one of the larger bits I want to get sorted.  But at the moment the focus is on Ground Construction integration

@jd284 - log that issue RE the Ag converter (Organic input and output) and I will change it accordingly.  The input/output is not necessary since I already have the 'Required' set.

 

And here's what I have been working on...

 

 

Or go to https://skfb.ly/Z8MN for the 3D view

[voicey99]

(bit behind on the thread) @Bluejay To stop the Karibou storage bays from squirrelling away your power into the giant planetary sink you don't have to disable warehousing on the WSBs, just click the little green triangle next to the power bar to disable the power I/O while retaining the other cargo's warehousing functionality

[sh1pman]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

First - Recyclers will be fixed (that is, Kerbals will share them disconnected) in the next patch.

In addition to not being shared between vessels, they don't seem to work properly. Kerbals consume more than they should with working recyclers. 

[dboi88]

@RoverDude can't wait to see the eagle version! Are we going to be able to swap out the different modules after launch as a function of the mod or will we need to come up with our methods for that?(i.e. are you going to be doing that in your own game )

@Bluejay @voicey99 I've found the problem with disappearing electricity and logged a github issue with USI+stock save file.

[gamerscircle]

Alright, thanks to the help from @Jebs_SY , my MKS and LS is now working and I see the stuff that I wanna see.  [Yeah.. I know.. vague]  It isn't like I don't know how update a mod or install a mod, but I must have had " a moment " and copied something wrong.

Back on track and again.. thank you .

[notthebobo]

34 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

, but I must have had " a moment " and copied something wrong.

Been there, will be there again. Glad it worked out

[revolioclockbergjr]

Another question for you folks: it looks like I have a couple Ranger Ag modules in Cultivate(S) mode that say they're missing water. But I have lots of water. I have the best water.

[DStaal]

Check the crossfeeds on your docking ports.

[revolioclockbergjr]

2 hours ago, DStaal said:

Check the crossfeeds on your docking ports.

Oh there's no way I could have overl-- okay yeah crossfeed. Somewhere. THANKS for that!

Ended up just moving the tank right up next to the greenhouses. But I share this screenshot because I docked a kerbal on EVA into the claw. This game is so wonderful sometimes I weep tears of joy.

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by revolioclockbergjr