Concerning complaints about the cost of DLC

[frizzank]

You paid what $20, 5 freaking years ago for a game with hundreds of hours of game-play and now EXPECT EVERYTHING AFTER THAT TO BE FREE???

 

Your like the old lady at the fast food restaurant that pays a $1 for a cheese burger and expects Gordon Ramsey to cook if specifically for them.

This game has given Way, Way,Way,Way,Way,Way,Way,Way,Way, more back to its fans than any game I can think of in recent history. Yet you  still find it absurd that after 5 years of free stuff they want you to finally pay for extra content!

As a professional developer it hurts my soul to here some of these comments about Squad. Your more than happy to spend 40$ in add-on for some click-bait cell phone game, but when actually quality comes along you huff your chest and tilt your nose up at it like some self imposed uber game critic.

This, this is why only crud games make money anymore. Why every game has to be free with paid add-ons, because its the only way you will give up $0.99 for 327 hours of gameplay. By the way, you would still complain about spending the $0.99 for 327 hours of gameplay cause anything less would be robbery. Even though you spent twice that much for a soda last week you didn't even finish....

It takes hundreds of man hours to create just one hour of gameplay. Game devs have to eat and pay our bills just like you. Don't like the game, then don't buy the expansion. But if you do like it you better sure as heck cough up that $15 for the DLC and not say a freaking word about how your not getting your moneys worth.

Would you want someone at your job to suggest that you should come to there house and bake another pizza for them for free cause they ate the first one too fast?

 

[Superfluous J]

Let me agree with your basic premise (that the game as-is is easily worth the cost I paid plus this dlc) before this thread gets locked for the way you said it.

[frizzank]

I stand by my rant. Continue to ignore if you wish.

Edited March 22, 2017 by frizzank

[evileye.x]

I understand your pain. Those pesky children.... 

Ah, just joking. I have two of them and in nearest one and a half month going to have third. But again, my children are not greedy me think

Seriously speaking, I think SQUAD deserves more moneys. 

Pay to Win orbit Kerbin, you know. Preorder DLC and use those gold painted RD-180 with real life ISP  to orbit Kerbin for the first ever, because you fail all the time otherwise...

I'm little bit sad that Harvester and other guys, you know from the olde team (s) will not benefit from that DLC though. And moders team who worked on post 1.0.5 releases...

But ... at least we have @RoverDude... He's awesome dude. Not sure who else, I have terrible memory... @TriggerAu I guess?...

Any way I love you SQUAD developers team and appreciate your work. Hope you will get some dollars from DLC sales, which should be rocket high. Because KSP is a passion, not a just another game.

Anybody can pay for passion, and I guess will pay 

Edited March 22, 2017 by evileye.x

[Razorforce7]

I'm sure it is just your expression, but are these "greedy children" really paying 1 to several dozen bucks for cellphone games but complain about KSP?

How are cellphone game prices not to be complained about but KSP or other desktop platform games are?

I mean hallelujah, is that even serious? Do these gargoyles originate from the inner core of Ceres itself on a trip to Earth or something?
Most cellphone games are crap anyway. Why even pay for it anyway? Got nothing better to do with your life not saying cellphone games are neccesarily bad though.

Oh, and Facts are Facts.
And that is that KSP happens to be in the lower price spectrum for new game releases.
That's like saying "we are kind and generous and free water, food and blankets for all of you"

If there is to be a discussion about this then the more reasonable argument would be to raise the price rather then lowering it.
@ greedy children.

I hope you all lose your wallets.

[Wjolcz]

@frizzank you are missing the point. I don't know how it is with other people but I can guarantee you paying or not paying is not the case here. It's what is being offered.

Now, to clarify, I'm getting the DLC for free because I bought the game in 2012 so ranting about price in my case is a moot. And, as I've said, money isn't a problem here. From my point of view the DLC @SQUAD is offering is simply not worth it. It's parts +some more contracts +contracts creator (which frankly should be stock because what is offered in the career mode is just bad).

I would happily pay for something and support the devs. Like a new game, or something that simply can't be added with mods. Just not this.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Veeltch

[Theysen]

35 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

I would happily pay for something and support the devs. Like a new game, or something that simply can't be added with mods. Just not this.

You can get a cute Kerbal plushie or a mug. 

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Veeltch said:

I would happily pay for something and support the devs. Like a new game, or something that simply can't be added with mods. Just not this.

There's a subtle difference between mods and DLC: their status. Will your favorite mod be supported by other mods? Will it still work when the next KSP version comes out, or will the author have thrown in the towel for various reasons? Will it support localization from the fround up and other features to be added to the game in the future?

of course there's no guarantee Squad's DLC will do that but it's not unreasonable to expect it does. That alone makes it different from regular mods.

And if this is the way functionality like Infernal Robotics or KER will become "stock" in the future then I will happily pay for that, too.

[evileye.x]

44 minutes ago, Theysen said:

You can get a cute Kerbal plushie or a mug. 

Yes, you cannot add a plushie with mods. So it's the proper way to show support in this case I guess...

 

1 hour ago, Veeltch said:

DLC @SQUAD is offering is simply not worth it. It's parts +some more contracts +contracts creator (which frankly should be stock because what is offered in the career mode is just bad).

It is so unfair and definitely not true. First of all nobody seen the DLC just yet.

I play with 120+ and still want the DLC. If it is going to be bad, I'll pay to show respect  and continue to enjoy my KSP with mods. If it is good, I'll enjoy my KSP with DLC and (anyway) mods.

DLC is not necessary mean evil. Sometimes it can be so good. For example Firaxis' XCOM Enemy Unknown -> Enemy Within.

(But not DLC for XCOM2, they just meh...)

[pandaman]

It's extra content which is an optional additional purchase.  Many existing players will buy it anyway, out of curiosity and as a way of saying thanks to Squad for such awesome value so far.

Not all the features will appeal to, or be used by, every player as we all have different tastes and play styles, but if it is generally considered poor value then, rest assured, the word will spread and they are less likely to sell more copies.  If its considered good value the word will still spread and Squad stand to sell more and therefore make more money.

Therefore, it is totally in Squads interest to make this, and any future DLC, 'good value'.  I will reserve judgement until I see it, but, based on my experience with KSP so far, I have little doubt that it will offer reasonable value at least.

[Frybert]

Some edits have been made and some posts have been removed.

[Curveball Anders]

8 hours ago, pandaman said:

Therefore, it is totally in Squads interest to make this, and any future DLC, 'good value'.  I will reserve judgement until I see it, but, based on my experience with KSP so far, I have little doubt that it will offer reasonable value at least.

This echoes my view exactly.

[KerbalKore]

19 hours ago, frizzank said:

-snip-

 

2 things,

1, totally agree! KSP has given has so much for so little!

 

2, awesome rant.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Bill the Kerbal

[322997am]

Well, I will say this. If this is the only dlc this game gets for the next 2 year, and its good, then ok. But squad, keep in mind that DLC is a slippery slope that ea fell down, 2k fell down and avalanche is next. Also, DLC has a lot of stigma around it (thx a lot ea) which may reduce sales if new buyers see the "DLC" on the buy page on steam.

Edited March 23, 2017 by 322997am

[klesh]

$13.75 in July of 2013.  Almost 1400 hours with many more not logged by steam.  Best value by far.  

I spend $10 a day on cigarettes, I'll glady pay whatever is asked for more KSP content.  

[archnem]

19 hours ago, Veeltch said:

I would happily pay for something and support the devs. Like a new game, or something that simply can't be added with mods. Just not this.

Oh come on.  Almost everything in the game was a mod at one point or another.  For crying out loud, docking used to be only available through mods.  Should Squad have not added that?  ISRU? Comms?

And how do you know it's not worth paying for?  All we have is a brief announcement, not even a price yet.  What if it were $1?  Would it be worth paying for then? $5? $10?  We don't know, because...the DLC isn't out yet and this is all just wild speculation.

Personally, I wish Squad would shut up and take my money.

[Jestersage]

Here's the deal for me: The only way I would be hesitate (but not out right not buying) is if the feature of the DLC is not merely available through a mod (which is given), but actually had been based, or have knowledge of, existing mods. This is exactly what made people angry at the Payday 2 DLC when they start to roll out the "FBI files", which is made with an explicit knowledge of a community website that provide a much better function.

Paying for DLC is not an issue. Riding on the coattail of your fans will be.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Jestersage

[Gargamel]

On 3/22/2017 at 0:08 AM, frizzank said:

You paid what $20, 5 freaking years ago for a game with hundreds of hours of game-play and now EXPECT EVERYTHING AFTER THAT TO BE FREE???

 

 

When I purchased the game, it was explicitly stated that we would not pay for for future content.  I don't expect SQUAD to give me free stuff, I expect them to stand by their promise. 

It has nothing to do with the cost, or paying for  extra content. 

@SQUAD has done wonders for us as users, and they deserve all the support they can get.  But one of those wonderful things was promising early adopters free content.  That was one of the selling points at that time.  They cannot risk their reputation (EA anyone?) by going back on their word,  If you buy a car, and part of that purchase agreement is free routine service for the life of the car, you expect the dealership to honor that.  If they don't 3 things will happen.  One, they lose a lot of customers who won't buy another car from them.  Two, they lose all the referral and other new customers through the bad press.  And Three, they will probably end up in court.  

Even in this case, all three are possible.  Since they only have one product (that I know of), the risk of losing repeat business is not that great, but any future products they release will be met with skepticism.   This would also definitely cloud future sales to new customers too, as they would hesitate to buy from a company known to screw over their customers.  And while a lawsuit seems ridiculous, given the cost of the DLC, that's the very reason why someone would sue.  The cost of defending all these suits on this topic would far outweigh any revenue they generate from the sales.  And as soon as they settle one of them, they would have to settle them all.  They know that and it's just easier and cheaper to stand by their promise. 

Practically every comment I seen asking about this topic fall into 2 categories.   One, Those few early adopters asking if Squad would honor their promise.  And Two, those complaining about us asking about the promise.   Yes there were maybe a couple asking for financial reasons, but not the majority.  There are so many companies out there that do nothing but screw over their customers, that it's very reasonable for this to be a concern. 

 

We bought this game early, knowing it was still a work in progress, and a lot of these early release games never make it to a full release.  We knew that and yet we still supported Squad.  Without our seed money, there may not have been a full version.   So instead of complaining about us asking Squad to honor their promise, you should be thanking us for supporting Squad to help them create this wonderful game we all love. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by gargamel

[Sirad]

On 22. März 2017 at 5:08 AM, frizzank said:

You paid what $20, 5 freaking years ago for a game with hundreds of hours of game-play and now EXPECT EVERYTHING AFTER THAT TO BE FREE???

 

Your like the old lady at the fast food restaurant that pays a $1 for a cheese burger and expects Gordon Ramsey to cook if specifically for them.

 

nonsensd analogy. that one fits better:

developing is like a group of guys creating one burger by investing one million dollars in cooking. then make 2 million copies of it and selling them for 20 dollars each.

meanwhile the burger on table itself still remains half baken and the remaining dollars got funnily taken away as tip, the cook shows up and tell you that he needs more money to complete the burger all customers already have paid for a few years ago

besides: i bought my copy of the burger dez 2012

[p1t1o]

Whilst I have my various thoughts (available elsewhere) about the development of KSP and its DLCs, this discussion about the cost seems rather moot. 

That is all.

[Araym]

I am one of the (LOT) first buyers of KSP. I think I started "officially" with 0.17, after I had met the game on youtube and I had fun with "the basics of space flying" with the 0.13 (or everything it was at the time) free version. So I'm falling on the part of our comunity that had A LOT of hope for a very basic game well FAR AWAY from the complexity it has now in 1.2.2, on the verge to be updated again in the next release of 1.3, so I'm going to fall in that category of fellow kerbonauts that (under SQUAD promise) "will receive not only the (core) game update for free, but also any further expansions for free" (so you could point me that any I could add after this point is made by someone that should not need to open again the wallet to receive more contents that later buyers should pay)...

... BUT, even if the game itself probably will need some polishment here and there (expecting some stock part revamp in the future and some functionality added out of any DLC scheme) I'M SINCERELLY BE READY to PAY for more stuff!

BECAUSE I'm not more in my "prime", and after being accustomed to the "real life" needs of companies (a.k.a: they need money to run their business) I could tell that "expansions" (or "DLC", as known now) are and will be the only way to extend the life of ONE of the most longeve game I still playing after FIVE YEARS. I'm so proud to be a "kerbonauts" that I went to buy (just for the sake to "funding" SQUAD) even (at least for me) the (a bit-a lot bugged) "Kerbalizer".
Those that invested in KSP are not doing it for "charity"... Those that works for Squad are not doing it for "free"...

I could see the problems from those that have not a constant revenue, but will like to have the announced (but not yet finalized) options from the fist DLC as "stock"...

I also see the complains about "what SQUAD announced as DLC is now easily achieved with some free mods", but this is not the same: I saw tons of interesting concepts being difficoult implemented by mods, but very easily done once stock (my first example was the kraken-driven first mods that tried to add "docking", generally killing tons of space assemblies, rather the smoothness achieved once "docking" was made in the core game)...

KSP is probably one of the few (if not the only) game that will grant to me ton of fun even if "tomorrow" SQUAD could announce that will close any further development of the game (I hope a far away "tomorrow").

I'm probably naive enough in my thoughts to have been, in fact, one of the "early buyer" of a product very far to be complete (I wish that for any complaining guy, he should be reverted to 0.17 for at least a couple of hours or REAL game, to feel what it was KSP back in its early state, when aside a couple of cilinder labelled as "fuel tanks", there was basically nothing: no tweakable to fine tuning part positioning, no nodes for manouvers, no docking, no kerbals to walk away from crafts) just to HELP a very promising concept to bloom in a full fledged game (yes... there are still things I expect to be added on stock to consider it really "complete" -TWR/dV tables, for example-, but this actual situation is FAR MORE COMPLETE than any experienced FIVE YEARS AGO!!!)

Even if with the upcoming "language localization", probably some sales will go up again, I suspect that KSP is not bringing the same amount of cash to SQAUD as it was, just to say, around 0.90 or early 1.XXX releases, so what is it needed to keep SQUAD afloat to further spend time and resources on the future? Obviously add contents as payed "expansions/DLCs/whatever-you-could-call-them".

It's obviously a market stategy long ABUSED by a lot of companies (basic games in which you could do very litlle, without, and then you have a decent one, instead, if you put more money in it) but, as NOW (data from the official KSP store) how BAD PRICEY could them be, with a basic game costing 18€ now? 5 euros??? 10???

I'm OFFICIALLY asking to SQUAD to leave in ANY CASE OPEN the "buy the DLC" option (at least in their KSP-Store, if it could be problematic to have it done on Steam/other selling platforms) even if I'll receive the "download it" option for free because... well... I'm naive and romantic (and old: beying old enough helps to be "naive" and "romantic", sometime), and I'll probably wanna (re-)FUND SQUAD itself of the FUN they are keeping me, still after 5 years (and with a LOT of time in the future) buying it ANYWAY.

Because, even if some features/bugs need to be still addressed, even if I expect some polishment in the future (stock rocket parts revamp, for example????) I'm actually MORE THAN HAPPY to be one of their customers.
Even (or EVEN MORE) if they are actually going to keep me the "promise" to bring to me "infinite free content upgrades" just like they promised LONG AGO.

LONG LIFE TO KSP
LONG LIFE TO SQUAD

... and...

[Moh1336]

DLC vs Cost: I have never, and will never, judge the cost of a DLC based purely on the base game or any previous content released for it. That would be like basing the price of your next pizza against a different type of pizza you had 3 years ago.

DLC needs to stand on its own as a package price wise, I will always judge the price against the content it contains, I will factor in how much I play/enjoy the base game still, after all if you don't play the game at all any more it's probably wise to avoid paying more money towards additional content. For me KSP is a part time game, it's that game I play for a while, then take a break from and come back to. So for me I will take that into account when it comes to DLC. Not so much 'is the price point agreeable', but more 'is it worth it right at this moment'. For me the answer is probably 'no'. I am currently not playing KSP actively.

As for the actual price point, £12 isn't too bad. I've paid more for other game DLCs. But it really depends on the content, I haven't really looked into it too deeply at this point, so I am reserving judgement until I have all the facts. However I am waiting on DLC for another game too, a game I play and mod for on a more regular basis, so as you can imagine that game will take precedence for me.

In truth given the price point, I think it is likely I will not be buying the KSP DLC at this time. I will most likely wait until I start playing again, and who knows maybe the price will drop in the meantime making it all the sweeter deal.

 

Now there are times that I will buy a DLC outright simply because I want to support the devs. For those of you who play, or are familiar with Euro Truck Sim, I will always buy the skin packs (less than £1 usually) because it is pocket change. If Squad were to release little skin packs for space suits or additional looks for rocket parts up to £2 I freely admit I would buy it instantly. 1 because I do enjoy KSP and want to help support the game, and 2 because I consider it pocket change for me. But when we start talking £5+ for a DLC that is when I have to really think about it, because I am currently dealing with health issues that prevent me from working and will likely stop me being employed in the near future, money obviously is also an issue.

If I was working I would probably just buy it as soon as it releases. But hey-ho, unfortunate circumstance means I have to put thought into my purchases.

 

[egoego]

I don't remember when exactly I bought KSP or how much I paid. I guess it was pre 0.23 and I paid less than 20$ thanks to some sales offer or something. I really enjoy the game even so I still see some parts that could be improved but overall I always ask myself, did I pay enough? For a while I tried to come up with a good way to pay Squad more for this game. Buy another copy and gift it to a friend? Buy merchandies stuff?

Now that the DLC is around, I will probably spent money on that one, even so I am not really interested in it's content. Just to say thanks to Squad.

[IceGiant]

I will say that unless the DLC pack is absolute rubbish, I will most likely buy it, if only as a token of appreciation for the devs. I'm happy to throw a few quid their way to say thanks for something I play all the time.

My only concern is that this pack doesn't divide the modding community.  For example, if a modder uses the new contract editor to build a challenge, could that be shared with everyone?

[sal_vager]

43 minutes ago, IceGiant said:

For example, if a modder uses the new contract editor to build a challenge, could that be shared with everyone?

Just going to quote this bit.

On 3/17/2017 at 0:18 AM, UomoCapra said:

Once created, you will be able to easily share your missions with the wider community.

And this bit, the Mission files will be like craft and saves, and can be shared with other players, whether created by a modder or anyone else

If a craft or save requires mods you still need to install those mods, so a Mission that uses mods would require those to be installed.