Antenna Range Diagram (stock / OPM /JX2 / GPP / GPO)

[cyberKerb]

Chatted to Kergarin and he gave the OK to post my expansions of his charts I've created.
All credit to @Kergarin for the fantastic chart idea that looks so awesome.  

I've got these printed out and stuck to the corkboard near the PC desk alongside the Delta-V maps (OPM / GPP) for quick reference.

I did have the idea to included the Major Axis distance to indicate the range required to fully cover the orbit of the home body, (27.9G for Gael / 27.2G for Kerbin) but I've left that off as I wasn't sure how helpful that figure would be seeing as the Sun would block any communication to the opposite side of the orbit anyway.    

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JX2/OPM extension chart is only for OPM with stock antenna ranges or when the JX2 antenna is installed with OPM.

• With a default install, OPM adds x4 to the range for anything with a 'ModuleDataTransmitter' module and adds x8 for the Lvl 3 DSN.
  • (Default OPM ranges not shown on chart)
• @Snark / @steedcrugeon mod for the JX2 antenna adds a 1000G antenna to KSP (and a few 300G antenna alternatives - not show on chart)
  • Importantly, for this chart (and OPM) the JX2 mod removes the x4 antenna range that OPM adds.
  • OPM also boosts the power of the level-3 tracking station from 250G to 2000G, JX2 restores it back to 250G
• Second OPM chart includes the x4 antenna and x8 Lvl3 DSN antenna power boosts as ACTIVE (Note: the top of chart is now 900Gm)

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GPP extension chart is only for GPP with stock antenna ranges,
 - includes the 100G upgrade module that is available after unlocking the largeUnmanned Science node
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__________________________________________________
Couldn't resist adding one more variation with both OPM and GPP for lols
I've kept the range as per stock with none of the OPM range boosts other than the 100G part upgrade from GPP
I'll probably do another one with the 4x range boost and x8 lvl3 DSN to show the difference (yes, I'm having fun making these ) 
Second chart also shows GPP with OP. However, then OPM Antenna and DSN range boosts are shown as ACTIVE on the second chart.

Edited January 4, 2018 by wile1411
Removed Eeloo from OPM charts

[Kergarin]

Thanks a lot for all your effort!

Have added this to first post.

[Vanamonde]

People looking for the kind of useful information in this thread are likely to look for it in the Tutorials sub, and so, that's where the thread has been moved. 

[Kergarin]

Thanks!

[Poodmund]

These are super cool and useful, I've added a link to them in the OP of my calculator spreadsheet thread. Great work, @Kergarin and @wile1411.  

EDIT: Its crazy to think how far out Leto is in GPP.  

Edited December 23, 2017 by Poodmund

[Kergarin]

5 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

These are super cool and useful, I've added a link to them in the OP of my calculator spreadsheet thread. Great work, @Kergarin and @wile1411.  

EDIT: Its crazy to think how far out Leto is in GPP.  

Thanks a lot! Your calculator is really great, and I think it works perfectly side by side 

[cyberKerb]

1 hour ago, Poodmund said:

These are super cool and useful, I've added a link to them in the OP of my calculator spreadsheet thread. Great work, @Kergarin and @wile1411.  

EDIT: Its crazy to think how far out Leto is in GPP.  

I haven't played with GPP yet and was surprised by the distance on Grannus. That extra scale change was huge.

When you see OPM and GPP distances side by side on the same scale, it gives and interesting comparison of Plock vs Leto.

Edited December 23, 2017 by wile1411

[Poodmund]

@Kergarin, with the recent update to OPM, the antenna and DSN modifiers were removed so that the stock antenna and DSN power output levels persist, however, a Level 4 DSN was introduced (being the same power as the old OPM Level 3) so that far out comms can still be achieved. Unfortunately this means that your amazing graphic in the OP is now outdated as of OPM v2.2.0.

I just thought I'd give you a heads up as these kind of changes are tricky to hear about sometimes.  

[Kergarin]

Thanks a lot @Poodmund we will fix this soon 

 

[cyberKerb]

Hmmm.. I'm going over the extras that I created and need to edit (I think) two three all charts

Charts I've so far added to the thread:

JX2/OPM(Stock Range) - Unchanged as JX2 mod reverts the OPM level4 back to stock ranges (ToDo, change chart title to KSP 1.4)

OPM Extension - Need to copy from JX2 chart ranges (ToDo: remove JX2 and add 4th level as new OPM range chart,  OPM_CommNet.cfg reference here, change chart title to KSP 1.4)

GPP Extension - Ranges Unchanged (ToDo, change chart title to KSP 1.4)

GPP Extension + OPM (with Boost) - This one needs changing, but "to what" is a work in progress at the moment. I noticed this post that the specific changes are nearly done and should be implemented in a release sometime soon.

GPP Extension + OPM (without Boost) - Ranges Unchanged (ToDo, change chart title to KSP 1.4) Should this be removed? I only created it for the edge case of someone using OPM and GPP / GEP together and letting the JX2 mod overwrite the ranges. As GEP is handling those configs internally, this situation would be such a rare occurrence I question the use of even referencing it here. Thoughts?

 

Changes forthcoming:

@Kergarin - you OK if I call it "Version 1.2 by Kergarin Aerospace"?
Re-title all charts to have KSP 1.4 (I'm guessing it's fine to leave the .3 subversion off - let me know otherwise)
Change OPM boost chart to add level4 and remove x4 /x8 boost
Change GPP Extension + OPM boost: retitle to indicate boost is now / will be a GEP config Boost based on this post by @OhioBob and adjust figures once the boost is in a new GEP released

Any other changes / edits I need to consider before needing to break open MS paint ? 

 

 

[OhioBob]

@wile1411, the following is how I understand it based on current and planned updates.

OPM 2.2.1 (for KSP 1.4.2) - Makes no changes to stock antennas or level 1-3 tracking station.  Adds a level 4 tracking station with a 2T power rating, but only if GPP is not installed.
GPP 1.6.2.2 (for KSP 1.3.1) - Adds part upgrades to the Communotron 88-88 and RA-100 antenna, boosting their power rating from 100G to 1T.  No change is currently planned for the next release.
GEP 0.9.2.0 (for KSP 1.3.1) - Does nothing to alter communications in current version.
JX2Antenna 2.0.4 (for KSP 1.4.2) - Reverts both the OPM and GPP upgrades, adds the JX2 antenna with a 1T power rating.

Therefore, below is what we get when these mods are used in various combinations.

Stock + OPM --->  level 4 tracking station
Stock + OPM + JX2 --->  JX2 antenna
GPP --->  stock antenna upgrades
GPP + JX2 --->  JX2 antenna
GPP + OPM --->  stock antenna upgrades
GPP + OPM + JX2 --->  JX2 antenna
GPP + GEP --->  stock antenna upgrades
GPP + GEP + JX2 --->  JX2 antenna
GPP + GEP + OPM --->  stock antenna upgrades
GPP + GEP + OPM + JX2 --->  JX2 antenna

The next planned release of GEP will be v1.0.0.0 for KSP 1.4.x.  It will include upgrades to boost the commnet so that is reaches Grannus.  However, I haven't made a final decision on exactly how I'll package the upgrades.  It may be baked in to GEP, or it may be offered as an optional addon.  To reach Grannus I require both OPM's level 4 tracking station, and either GPP's antenna upgrades or the JX2 antenna.  This is what I have planned:

GEP 1.0.0.0 (for KSP 1.4.x) - Adds a level 4 tracking station with a 2T power rating.  Adds upgrades to the Communotron 88-88 and RA-100 antenna, boosting their power rating to 1T, but only if JX2Antenna is not installed.

If the end user chooses not to use GEP's upgrades, the result will be the same as listed previously.  However, if the upgrades are implemented, below is what we'll get with different mod combinations:

Stock + GEP --->  level 4 tracking station + stock antenna upgrades
Stock + GEP + JX2 --->  level 4 tracking station + JX2 antenna
Stock + OPM + GEP ---> level 4 tracking station + stock antenna upgrades
Stock + OPM + GEP + JX2 --->  level 4 tracking station + JX2 antenna
GPP + GEP --->  level 4 tracking station + stock antenna upgrades
GPP + GEP + JX2 --->  level 4 tracking station + JX2 antenna
GPP + GEP + OPM --->  level 4 tracking station + stock antenna upgrades
GPP + GEP + OPM + JX2 ---> level 4 tracking station + JX2 antenna

To get the scenarios that include OPM working as indicated, an update to the JX2Antenna mod is required.  @Snark has indicated that he'll make the necessary revision.
 

Edited April 16, 2018 by OhioBob

[OhioBob]

@wile1411, something else of which you made need to be aware is that Grannus' orbit changes when installed in combination with GPP and OPM.  Under all other scenarios, Grannus's orbit is,

Periapsis = 1200 Gm
Apoapsis = 2800 Gm

But when GPP + GEP + OPM are all installed together, Grannus' orbit becomes,

Periapsis = 1200 Gm
Apoapsis = 1800 Gm

[Kergarin]

Thanks again for all your efforts @wile1411! 

Yes, we can change the version number.

It's really hard to tell, which versions are important.

I think with OPMs new solution, the stock OPM install will fit most people's needs, and JX2 becomes less important. 

Allso GPP has integrated antenna changes like @OhioBob has listed. (thank you too) 

So I think these two will be the most requested. And for the change in progress mods we should wait.

It's hard to know where to stop, because I don't know how many people mix them up and how they do. I for example always use GPP secondary for mixing them, this gives a stock OPM system plus the GPP system orbiting another star which orbits Kerbol, so you do not lose any planet like in the normal mixup. But that would be another chart too 

For too special needs there is still @Poodmund 's great calculator.

I don't want to stop you from doing as many versions as you like, I just want to save you from to much work, and I'm  really thankfull for all your efforts on this charts and will update the op whith every version you create 

[cyberKerb]

On ‎17‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 4:44 AM, Kergarin said:

I don't want to stop you from doing as many versions as you like, I just want to save you from to much work, and I'm  really thankfull for all your efforts on this charts and will update the op whith every version you create 

Wow - thanks for all the details - First up, I'm not at all entertaining the idea to do a chart of all combinations. Just a few to cover the various different installs. As Per @OhioBobs above list (the first section) it may have a lot of permutations, but I only see 3 effective results. A lot of the various options only resulting from people modifying cfg files or are just too similar to other charts. I was mainly trying the restrict the number of charts based on standard installs. As such, some of those in the list can't come about "naturally" without a deliberate cfg modification.

On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 5:06 PM, OhioBob said:

@wile1411, the following is how I understand it based on current and planned updates.

OPM 2.2.1 (for KSP 1.4.2) - Makes no changes to stock antennas or level 1-3 tracking station.  Adds a level 4 tracking station with a 2T power rating, but only if GPP is not installed.
GPP 1.6.2.2 (for KSP 1.3.1) - Adds part upgrades to the Communotron 88-88 and RA-100 antenna, boosting their power rating from 100G to 1T.  No change is currently planned for the next release.
GEP 0.9.2.0 (for KSP 1.3.1) - Does nothing to alter communications in current version.
JX2Antenna 2.0.4 (for KSP 1.4.2) - Reverts both the OPM and GPP upgrades, adds the JX2 antenna with a 1T power rating.
 

My chart breakdown with that viewpoint is:

1) Stock -----> Same as @Kergarin OP
2) Stock + OPM + JX2------> Stock + Jx2 antenna with range nurf   (Link: https://i.imgur.com/BqglcNH.png)
3) Stock + OPM ------> Lvl4 Tracking station boost (Link: https://i.imgur.com/fBNqwSM.png)
Couple of notes here regarding JX2 / @Snark
I don't think there is any point doing a JX2 version for OPM 'with boost' as that doesn't exist without a mod to the cfg. Snark specifically "undoes" the OPM changes by default so that is what is charted.
For other combinations, I wasn't planning adding any additional JX2 antennas charts, as this single one with OPM demonstrates it's range when it's installed. I used OPM in the chart as, much like in the JX2 thread, it gives an example as to 'why' you install it for that extra reach out to further planets. For other packs that it could be installed with (ie GPP) , I'd rather just focus on what effect that mod has on the various ranges with a default install and not so much how they effect other mods. The exception here is GPP & OPM which was a "for lols" effort as the ranges are so ridiculous, I wanted to see the ridiculousness visualised.  

4) Stock + GPP -------> Same as stock ranges with an 88-88 & 100G part upgrade boost, different planets - keep reference to KSP 1.3  (Link: https://i.imgur.com/AUN7KNX.png)
(Adding a JX2 here isn't needed.  As you mentioned, GPP has part upgrades that makes the 100G effectively a JX2 ranged antenna - no point adding JX2 in a separate chart when it's just a change of label)

.... So far no problems, nor any extra charts. I do need to modify the existing ones for that level 4 / titles change. I've been makes changes to the charts as I've drafted this post. So I should be including them at the end.

Edit: Wow - just finished the OPM changes and see that with a level 4 DSN, there seems to be no need for antennas *at all* in the Kerbin SOI. Minmus and Mun are all covered using just the built-in antenna and the DSN4. Not sure I like that personally and will probably edit that when I get around to my own games. Edit2: Just realised how stupid that comment is seeing as stock lvl3 covers the Mun with only built-in antenna already and I didn't complain. Pls Ignore my non-thinking comments  

 

Fixing the remaining two charts, I'll think I have to remove the boosted chart. I originally did both because I found it personally interesting to see the difference in range / ease of a single antenna to cover everything. It also clearly shows that there actually was an option to use the non-boosted antennas cfg and still be able to reach into Grannus territory, albeit with 20 upgraded 100G antennas - that's a heck of a satellite! That surprised me at the time and now it's relevant with the level4 TS with not antenna boost in the correct version.

As Ohiobob mentioned and from what I see in the OPM cfg, the level4 tracking station isn't added when GPP is also installed. That leaves only one default install configuration with that combination.
5) OPM + GPP ----> Boosted antennas from part upgrades, otherwise, no TS boosts for this combination. - keep reference to KSP 1.3
(Link: https://i.imgur.com/J3owL3k.png)

Notes for @OhioBob

I'm quickly realising that when I originally did the "for lols" charts of GPP and OPM I wasn't even thinking of GEP as it was still in development / didn't exist. I apologise that I don't think I even investigated GEP back then. This was mainly because I started to run out of enthusiasm and didn't want to add yet another full system of lookups to a new chart when I'd need to generate a whole new antenna range spreadsheet that would let me easily get the numbers I needed for the chart.

My most recent mistake occurred when I revisited the threads to find what changed and upon reading the JX2 comments, I got myself massively confused with the various mods mentioned. Because it's been a bit of time from when I last looked at these charts, I initially thought GEP was the only way that OPM and GPP worked together when I posted my previous message in this thread. I understand better now.

I originally did the charts based off reading that GPP has/had a config that shoved the OPM planets around Grannus if there were installed together. Unfortunately, I wasn't even considering GEP.  As you stated, OPM now disables it's own config for a level4 TS as it has a NEEDS[!GPP] in the custombarnkit config.

I checked the GPP OPM cfg again for specifics and see that OPM still is around Grannus when GEP not installed. I also see that when GEP IS installed, a new star called 'Robau' is added and is the location where the OPM stuff is placed and Grannus gets moved... elsewhere. As far as I understand is where you have your additional planets from the GEP mod, correct?  I can't find anything about Robau other than that GPP cfg. It's not referenced in the wiki or mentioned in the release thread for both GEP and GPP threads.

Side note: Your PDF on github still has Grannus old Ap of 2800Gm for the GEP installation. Should this be 1800Gm?

If I was to do GEP (are you able to advise if the design is feature complete in GEP so I don't have to update every few months?), I'd probably OPM so all options are shown on the one chart. This is assuming there isn't much that GEP changes between OPM installed and not.  I need to do some investigation into creating a modified calculator like I did previously for the OPM/GPP combination and then start drawing lines. Might be fun to draw up an all three together.

Already started having a go and making the spreadsheet I need for the numbers.
I've found that with OPM, GEP and GPP installed, the Robau star with the OPM planets has the following
Periapsis = 4320 Gm 
Apoapsis = 5280 Gm.

As advised, I added the level 4 Tracking station boosted to 2T
and plugged in 20x JX2 1T Antennas  (same as a 1T upgraded antenna)

Found that I can still only get 62.3% / 81.8% coverage at Grannus. (Close to the details shown in GPP/OPM image below)
For the new Robau star, I get 0% / 0.03% coverage (barely able to get a connection at min distance)
I can get a 1.8% connection to Plock when Gael and Plock are on the same side of Ciro.
(Just to be clear - all these numbers are from a modified version of Poodmunds spreadsheet - not in game)

Are these what I should map or were you expecting coverage at Robau? I'm fine either way, I'm only looking at numbers here so I'm not sure what the design intent is only based on that. If the intent is to ensure the player adds a relay network or never does unmanned missions to Grannus with this, it sounds cool. I just want to make sure I'm reading the data correctly.

 

Question: Should I remove/delete from imgur old images, or leave for history?

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by wile1411

[cyberKerb]

While I was updating the others, I did one extra from @Gameslinx GPO pack. (Note that GPO isn't supported for 1.4.x yet, even though I've listed it on the chart. I did this just as they were updating after the 1.4 KSP release)
I tried to throw the Cercani & Valentine systems (from Other Worlds and Extra Solar mods) into this chart... but they didn't look that good being so far out from this system, so I left them off.

[Kergarin]

Updated the first post. 

Thanks for all your help and advice to keep this up to date! 

[Kergarin]

I have just noticed, the ranges for OPM + GPP are a litte short, if there is no OPM boost or Level4 DSN, and we cant reach all planets,
Is there any common solution for this combination?

 

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, Kergarin said:

I have just noticed, the ranges for OPM + GPP are a litte short, if there is no OPM boost or Level4 DSN, and we cant reach all planets,
Is there any common solution for this combination?
 

Using a relay network and/or clustering multiple antennas is the only way to stretch communications all the way to the OPM planets.

[cyberKerb]

As per @OhioBob advisory that GEP is now released as version 1.0

[Kergarin]

Added  Thanks a lot again @wile1411

[CaribeanSoul]

Ok ... I feel like an idiot.  I am a a major space nerd.  I grew up watching shuttle launches from my back yard.  I've been a ham radio operator for 25 years.  I have hundreds of hours playing KSP.  

I can't make heads or tails of these charts. 

 

I understand the distance scale on the left and the DSN levels but I don't get what the numbers in the middle are supposed to mean.  Could someone help me out here?

Edited May 28, 2018 by CaribeanSoul

[Kergarin]

38 minutes ago, CaribeanSoul said:

Ok ... I feel like an idiot.  I am a a major space nerd.  I grew up watching shuttle launches from my back yard.  I've been a ham radio operator for 25 years.  I have hundreds of hours playing KSP.  

I can't make heads or tails of these charts. 

 

I understand the distance scale on the left and the DSN levels but I don't get what the numbers in the middle are supposed to mean.  Could someone help me out here?

The black numbers are the antenna ratings of a single antenna (as shown in the part descriptions in the game):

5k = no antenna (integrated in Pod/Probe cores)

500k = communotron 16 or 16-S

....

100G = communotron 88-88 or RA-100

So black numbers show the range of a single antenna.

 

You can extend your range by using more than one antenna on your craft. This is shown by the gray numbers, and they are related to the last black number.

 

Example:

You have DSN Level 2 and the communotron HG-55 unlocked.

The HG-55 has a rating of 15G.

A single 15G antenna on DSN 2 can always cover Eve and Moho, but only partially Duna.

If you now look upwards from 15G you will find a x2 just above Dunas maximum distance. That's the distance you can cover with two 15G antennas.

Dres can be covered with nine 15G Antennas.

Then comes the single 100G antenna. Two 100G can cover Jool, five 100G can cover Eeloo.

 

You did not mention the scale on the right side. Is this understandable?

Edited May 28, 2018 by Kergarin

[CaribeanSoul]

Thanks!  It's perfectly clear now.  

Wouldn't be a bad idea to get that explanation in the top post for anyone else who might be as dense as I am.  

[Korfio]

On 5/28/2018 at 11:37 PM, CaribeanSoul said:

Thanks!  It's perfectly clear now.  

Wouldn't be a bad idea to get that explanation in the top post for anyone else who might be as dense as I am.  

Don't worry, I read the whole thread myself and didn't get it until you asked for an explanation. Maybe we should put the actual antenna names/ranges as a subscript/note somewhere on the diagram. This would immediately give a hint as to what the bold black numbers mean. Other than that, an extremely useful resource. Thank you all.