Air Superiority Fighter Competition Continued

[Box of Stardust]

Heeyo, got some planes here.

@exbyde your queue is growing my dude

So, since aircraft-launched MLRS seems to be a (useful) thing now, here's mine: Basilisk -C3.

Basilisk returns! (Since I replaced the D5 with Gunbrick.) It seems to fly 'meh', not the most stable gun platform, kinda poor at hitting targets with its guns past 700m. Also acts really dumb in general and seems to drop the ball far too often and make stupid mistakes that ends in an unnecessary loss. But it carries an MLRS, so it's something! (Read: covers its kinda meh design that's probably worse than the PEGASys-D.)

Also, lightweight, small drones seem to be in style, so here's that 5 ton drone I mentioned while testing the Micro Fighter, first built all the way back when the MF was first submitted and hasn't been touched much since. I figured it's time again for funky acronym names from me: CShRAID.

(Pronounced 'charade'.) So yeah, it comes in at 5.2 tons fully loaded. Fun little thing. And meant for fun, not too serious of an attempt to get far up the leaderboard. Didn't really spend time tuning it, tuned it as I messed around with the MF, but it apparently has some bite!

Edited March 14, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Piatzin]

18 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

your queue is growing my dude

Don't poke him

[GillyMonster]

13 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Don't poke him

I think the roster might need to be limited to one entry per contestant at a time.

[Piatzin]

10 minutes ago, GillyMonster said:

I think the roster might need to be limited to one entry per contestant at a time.

I support this ^

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, GillyMonster said:

I think the roster might need to be limited to one entry per contestant at a time.

I say 2.

[Box of Stardust]

Hey guys

Figured I could try contributing to getting through the backlog, so I did some tests to see if my setup is good enough (never really done this before). I'm running additional visual mods and stuff (install isn't just for the BDAc stuff) which might have some performance hits? Mission timer is pretty much always in the yellow, so the physics are always not too happy. Hopefully that means the game is just slowing down so it can calculate everything going on, and that it's not skipping over occasional physics things (because that would probably be unoptimal with all the bullets flying around). 

Here's a first test, done from a surface observer just because.

 

Here's one in the usual format:

 

Movements feel slower than the normal postings, and that's backed up by the mission timer running about only 50-75% the speed it should. Which might be scatterer and EVE eating CPU. Unless videos are usually sped up in post and everything here is running at the speed they should; idk how the battles are posted here.

If you guys are fine with it, I can go ahead and start throwing planes from the queue (that come after the PEGASys... so the Cake, if I can find it) at the Du-3 until one of them beats the Du-3. I won't do PEGASys vs Rabid Squirrel since goduranus mentioned he changed the RS KerbalX page, so I don't know if I have the originally tested version.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Piatzin]

7 hours ago, dundun92 said:

I say 2.

Erm, I say no

[goduranus]

5 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

Hey guys

Figured I could try contributing to getting through the backlog, so I did some tests to see if my setup is good enough (never really done this before). I'm running additional visual mods and stuff (install isn't just for the BDAc stuff) which might have some performance hits? Mission timer is pretty much always in the yellow, so the physics are always not too happy. Hopefully that means the game is just slowing down so it can calculate everything going on, and that it's not skipping over occasional physics things (because that would probably be unoptimal with all the bullets flying around). 

Movements feel slower than the normal postings, and that's backed up by the mission timer running about only 50-75% the speed it should. Which might be scatterer and EVE eating CPU. Unless videos are usually sped up in post and everything here is running at the speed they should; idk how the battles are posted here.

If you guys are fine with it, I can go ahead and start throwing planes from the queue (that come after the PEGASys... so the Cake, if I can find it) at the Du-3 until one of them beats the Du-3. I won't do PEGASys vs Rabid Squirrel since goduranus mentioned he changed the RS KerbalX page, so I don't know if I have the originally tested version.

Can you try to move unused mods to another folder to improve performance, like how exbyde does it? It could just be a "New Folder" Inside your KSP main folder, which allows you to move folders around instantly.

[Box of Stardust]

 

 

7 hours ago, goduranus said:

Can you try to move unused mods to another folder to improve performance, like how exbyde does it? It could just be a "New Folder" Inside your KSP main folder, which allows you to move folders around instantly.

Best I could do with most unimportant mods taken out and other settings reduced to about 1/2 - 1/3 of what they usually are. It's still not 1:1 time, probably something like 75% real-time, but better.

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[goduranus]

Seems pretty close to real time already.

[Box of Stardust]

Alright guys, since @exbyde seems a bit busy right now and I've got some time off from classes, I'll help him out by working through the queue, pitting planes up against @dundun92's Du-3 currently in 5th place, and once something gets through the Du-3, will go up against my Viper ASP MkIIc in #4. And if they beat the Viper, they will sit at #4 with a 'to be continued' status until exbyde can continue testing of the PEGASys-D3 until that settles into a spot. And, naturally, if there's still planes to be tested and I still have time, will be continuing to go through the queue until the #5 spot is taken from the Viper and also receives a 'to be continued' status.

Current leaderboard as a quick visualization:

1	TFD mod A
2	Rabid Squirrel
3	PEGASys-D3 (to be continued)
4	Viper ASP MkIIc
5	Du-3

The Unlimited queue, as of right now, is this:

1. @l0kki Cake
2. @Wolf5698 Jaguar
3. @prgmTrouble  X-14 Præparet Proelium
4. @goduranus Vampire Squirrel
5. @OvoFox11 DC-3a was submitted, but retracted
6. @dundun92 Du-5R
7. @Mukita12 F-16
8. @Box of Stardust Gunbrick (replaced Basilisk-D5 in queue)
9. @prgmTrouble X-15 Exoneratis Hirundo
10. @Earthlinger Berzerker 2.1
11. @ZLM-Master VG-D3.4-PG
12. @53miner53 P-5 Flash
13. @Wolf5698 Lynx
14. @Wolf5698 Cheetah
15. @ZLM-Master Rafale
16. @GillyMonster Dart II
17. @dundun93 TFD 2.1
18. @Box of Stardust Basilisk -C3
19. @Box of Stardust CShRAID

Wew! Now that's a queue.

Battles are being recorded as of this post.

And of course, if exbyde or anyone has problems with anything I do in recording... I guess just call it unofficial?

[Piatzin]

7 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

And of course, if exbyde or anyone has problems with anything I do in recording... I guess just call it unofficial?

I'm sure he appreciates the effort

[Box of Stardust]

Welcome back everyone, to the Air Jousting Competition!

 

I'll be your temporary host for today, filling in the temporary absence of exbyde. This section of the competition will follow the leaderboard progression rules outlined in my previous post.

First up, is (finally) @l0kki's Cake, facing off against #5 spot, @dundun92's Du-3.

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Analysis:

We see the previous 'merge' meta in action in this gun jousting tournament. The Cakes never fired their AMRAAMs, partially due to the air-to-ground radome reducing air target track/lock capability. If they had, AMRAAMs might've been able to rout the Du-3s, making a more even match.

Alas, with more 20mm being thrown in the air by the Du-3, it edges out the wins almost right out of the gates each time.

 

[Box of Stardust]

Up next is @Wolf5698's Jaguar, facing off against #5 spot, @dundun92's Du-3.

 

 

Spoiler

Analysis:

The opposite problem of the Cake. It gets its missiles off thanks to being heat-seekers, but the plane just wasn't competing much in the gun merge. Partially because the AI always has to take time to switch to guns if it's getting heat locks, which costs valuable time. It was also slow, which meant spending more time in the merge, where the Du-3s are at their deadliest.

Also- also also also- control surfaces, my dude. You need to spam big, meaty control surfaces. The Jaguars were just too sluggish to turn around and fight if they managed to survive the merge.

 

[Piatzin]

3 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

Also- also also also- control surfaces, my dude. You need to spam big, meaty control surfaces. The Jaguars were just too sluggish to turn around and fight if they managed to survive the merge.

I beg to differ on that one.

Not a single one of my planes have anything aside from a single pair of canards up front. And I daresay the stock versions of the Lancers are among the most maneuverable planes on this thread

(Dat modesty tho XD)

[Box of Stardust]

Just now, Earthlinger said:

I beg to differ on that one.

Not a single one of my planes have anything aside from a single pair of canards up front. And I daresay the stock versions of the Lancers are among the most maneuverable planes on this thread

(Dat modesty tho XD)

Well, they don't have to be big and meaty or even excessive in amount, but having more than just a few 'standard' elevons at the back is still an improvement.

[53miner53]

1 minute ago, Box of Stardust said:

Well, they don't have to be big and meaty or even excessive in amount, but having more than just a few 'standard' elevons at the back is still an improvement.

Some versions of F3, specifically Hive Mind, have very few control surfaces, mostly just elevons on the wing surfaces, and they’re rather maneuverable. Maybe not as much as some of the drone fighters, but it’s close. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

AMRAAMs might've been able to rout the Du-3s

Nope, the Du-3 is AMRAAM proof anyway, thanks to 2 jammers. 

3 minutes ago, 53miner53 said:

Some versions of F3, specifically Hive Mind, have very few control surfaces, mostly just elevons on the wing surfaces, and they’re rather maneuverable. Maybe not as much as some of the drone fighters, but it’s close. 

It depends on the CG/CP, and if it has thrust vectoring.

[Box of Stardust]

1 minute ago, dundun92 said:

Nope, the Du-3 is AMRAAM proof anyway, thanks to 2 jammers. 

As far as I've observed, jammers don't necessarily reduce lock distance, but they do decrease lock accuracy which makes dodging AMRAAMs as the missiles close a lot more feasible.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Piatzin]

1 minute ago, dundun92 said:

Nope, the Du-3 is AMRAAM proof anyway, thanks to 2 jammers. 

The Berzerker has Sidewinders

Though I doubt It'll win

By the way, what's the Du-3's kill streak? How many planes has it defended its spot from?

[Box of Stardust]

5 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

The Berzerker has Sidewinders

Though I doubt It'll win

By the way, what's the Du-3's kill streak? How many planes has it defended its spot from?

A ridiculous amount. I'd wager it's probably #1 in plane victories (not per battle, just per plane). Its gun-based brute force method is just so effective, coupled with sub-300m/s max speed. Gunbrick takes this ideology and doubles it.

It's about to get dethroned though. I'm setting up the next battle as we speak. However, considering the 'replacement rule' that I don't know if I quite understand, I may continue testing against the Du-3 in a #6 spot, as it were.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Box of Stardust said:

As far as I've observed, jammers don't necessarily reduce lock distance, but they do decrease lock accuracy which makes dodging AMRAAMs as the missiles close a lot more feasible.

Yeah, but they make it impossible to lock on until the plane is really close, and by then, they are already are in garble range. Read the BDA github wiki page on the new radar system.

2 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

A ridiculous amount. I'd wager it's probably #1 in plane victories (not per battle, just per plane). Its gun-based brute force method is just so effective. Gunbrick takes this ideology and doubles it.

It's about to get dethroned though. I'm setting up the next battle as we speak. However, considering the 'replacement rule' that I don't know if I quite understand, I *may* continue testing against the Du-3 in a #6 spot, as it were.

The Du-5R has no sidewinders either. Expect for the MLRS.

[Box of Stardust]

Okay, before everyone started replying, there was another battle that just finished up.

@prgmTrouble's X-14 goes up against @dundun92's Du-3. This squat little thing packs almost the same armament as the Cookie, so should be interesting, right?

 

 

 

Spoiler

Analysis:

Unfortunately, it doesn't inherit what made the Cookie actually work, namely a stable gun platform that flew very slowly, making opposing fighters stay longer under gunfire in the merge. Instead, the X-14 is heavy and sluggish to slew onto target, making it no match in the dogfights that followed the merge.

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

Okay, before everyone started replying, there was another battle that just finished up.

@prgmTrouble's X-14 goes up against @dundun92's Du-3. This squat little thing packs almost the same armament as the Cookie, so should be interesting, right?

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Analysis:

Unfortunately, it doesn't inherit what made the Cookie actually work, namely a stable gun platform that flew very slowly, making opposing fighters stay longer under gunfire in the merge. Instead, the X-14 is heavy and sluggish to slew onto target, making it no match in the dogfights that followed the merge.

 

Lol.

[Box of Stardust]

@goduranus's fan favorite Vampire Squirrel steps up to the plate to bat against #5 spot @dundun92's Du-3. It does have a weakness that people might not be aware of.

 

 

Spoiler

... Well, two weaknesses actually.

The MLRS is really good for routing... but it seems to have occasional operator fatality glitches that makes it kill the launching plane occasionally.

The second weakness is-

- OH MY GOD STOP TIPPING OVER ON THE DAMN RUNWAY-

... a wheelbase track that rivals the Bf109 in how small and unstable it is, and I'm pretty sure the rear landing gear are even slightly canted inwards. This thing is a pain to set up because I was almost playing whack-a-squirrel with planes that would tip over as I fixed another.

But yeah. MLRS pre-routs the enemy, completely dispensing with the initial merge. However, AI reactions to it randomize outcome, and the Du-3s can be observed to turn around in time to face off against the incoming Squirrels. Still, the ensuing dogfight showcases fighter dogfight capability, and the Du-3's strength is in the initial merge, which does not manifest due to the MLRS, and so on a fairly level playing field with additional help from actual Sidewinder armament, Vampire Squirrel takes the #5 and will face off against the Viper next.