KSP Weekly: The Lunar Greenhouse

[klgraham1013]

2 minutes ago, LoSBoL said:

With the risk of getting my head bitten off... 

If the old version 1.3.1 being stable and relatively bug free, you could stick with that until 1.4.x get fixed and becomes enjoyable. 

The point is, 1.3.1 doesn't exist for the new buyer.  Their friends bought a broken 1.4.x.  I actually ran into a similar situation recently.  I was talking to someone about KSP, and they were interested.  ...but I had to use all these caveats.  They also got confused by the lack of information KSP provided; when I explained dV, and then explained that it wasn't displayed in the game.  Than having to tell them not to buy a finished game 5 years in the making right now...because the latest release broke it.  Honestly, I almost felt bad for Squad the longer the conversation went on.  ...but it's their own doing, and that's the worst part.

[LoSBoL]

10 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

The point is, 1.3.1 doesn't exist for the new buyer.  Their friends bought a broken 1.4.x.  I actually ran into a similar situation recently.  I was talking to someone about KSP, and they were interested.  ...but I had to use all these caveats.  They also got confused by the lack of information KSP provided; when I explained dV, and then explained that it wasn't displayed in the game.  Than having to tell them not to buy a finished game 5 years in the making right now...because the latest release broke it.  Honestly, I almost felt bad for Squad the longer the conversation went on.  ...but it's their own doing, and that's the worst part.

Thanks for clarifying, you're absolutely right, you can't sell this to new players, and they can only blame themselves for it. With the speed .1 and .2 dropping I sense they have been aware of the urgency. That propably also caused Squad to announce the .3 update upfront. 

I always thought that whenever you buy KSP,  you could always roll back to previous versions from before the date you've purchased. But then again, that's not obvious to new players, it may be good advice, but not the advice you'd want to give in the first place. 

[DeliriumTrigger]

11 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

The point is, 1.3.1 doesn't exist for the new buyer.  Their friends bought a broken 1.4.x.  I actually ran into a similar situation recently.  I was talking to someone about KSP, and they were interested.  ...but I had to use all these caveats.  They also got confused by the lack of information KSP provided; when I explained dV, and then explained that it wasn't displayed in the game.  Than having to tell them not to buy a finished game 5 years in the making right now...because the latest release broke it.  Honestly, I almost felt bad for Squad the longer the conversation went on.  ...but it's their own doing, and that's the worst part.

Even for veteran players, it's still unacceptable.  I shouldn't have to keep backup copies of previous versions around and go without using DLC I bought for weeks just to have a playable version of the game.   We're not beta testers, we're paying customers.  I bought this game after it left early access for a reason, early access sucks and I want no part of it.

[passinglurker]

3 hours ago, Rejected Spawn said:

Can someone explain something to me? I keep seeing the argument that the parts added in MH were pointless because similar ones exist in mods. Are these people saying Squad can't add parts if someone has made them as a mod?

You must be misunderstanding the argument is not that squad shouldn't because a mod exists the argument is squad should make parts and polish as good quality as thier modding community especially if they are gonna paywall the assets.

As for the rest of your rant I'll sum up with "others wishing the game to live up to its potential won't hurt you." you shouldn't feel so threatened by modding.

Edited April 21, 2018 by passinglurker

[Eskandare]

On 4/20/2018 at 10:31 AM, SQUAD said:

 

 

Oh dear...    <-- you made this Kerbal sad...

 

@SQUAD, THIS is how you do it! 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Eskandare

[DeltaDizzy]

2 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

Oh dear...    <-- you made this Kerbal sad...

 

@SQUAD, THIS is how you do it! 

heck yiss

[klgraham1013]

52 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

@SQUAD, THIS is how you do it! 

I applaud you, good sir or madam.

[RocketSimplicity]

Guys, whoever is complaining shouldn’t. You are lucky you have KSP. You are lucky you have a Computer / Console. You’re lucky you get food, have money and can have fun from KSP.

Seriously, you should stop complaining.

You are very lucky people, so don’t complain about the small things in life.

(This isn’t directed at anyone in particular)

Edited April 22, 2018 by RocketSimplicity

[Eskandare]

34 minutes ago, RocketSimplicity said:

Guys, whoever is complaining shouldn’t. You are lucky you have KSP. You are lucky you have a Computer / Console. You’re lucky you get food, have money and can have fun from KSP.

Seriously, you should stop complaining.

You are very lucky people, so don’t complain about the small things in life.

I'm not complaining perse, I'm more disappointed. Thus I'm showing what I've been able to do in a couple of weeks.  The layout was made in a few hours.

[klgraham1013]

39 minutes ago, RocketSimplicity said:

Guys, whoever is complaining shouldn’t. You are lucky you have KSP. You are lucky you have a Computer / Console. You’re lucky you get food, have money and can have fun from KSP.

Seriously, you should stop complaining.

You are very lucky people, so don’t complain about the small things in life.

I don't know why this came to mind but...

We've always been at war with Eurasia.

[Eskandare]

4 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I don't know why this came to mind but...

We've always been at war with Eurasia.

I'm always at war with Belka.

[Serenity]

1 hour ago, RocketSimplicity said:

Guys, whoever is complaining shouldn’t. You are lucky you have KSP. You are lucky you have a Computer / Console. You’re lucky you get food, have money and can have fun from KSP.

Seriously, you should stop complaining.

You are very lucky people, so don’t complain about the small things in life.

(This isn’t directed at anyone in particular)

Wow....if humanity had your state of mind we would still be primitive and satisfied that we have caves to sleep and raw meat to eat.

We always want to be better, we always want to improve,

thats the only reason you have food, computer, ksp.

I am really really just out of words, what a logic...

Edited April 22, 2018 by Boyster

[passinglurker]

2 hours ago, RocketSimplicity said:

Guys, whoever is complaining shouldn’t. You are lucky you have KSP. You are lucky you have a Computer / Console. You’re lucky you get food, have money and can have fun from KSP.

Seriously, you should stop complaining.

You are very lucky people, so don’t complain about the small things in life.

(This isn’t directed at anyone in particular)

As you say it's a small thing in the grand scheme of things therefore decent quality/consistent quality content and proper QA/dev priorities isn't too much to ask from professionals trying to sell us DLC.

Edited April 22, 2018 by passinglurker
removing borderline personal stuff

[Vanamonde]

Don't make the argument personal, please, guys. State your side, but without telling the other side why they're wrong for wanting what they want. 

[StarStreak2109]

5 hours ago, Eskandare said:

I'm not complaining perse, I'm more disappointed. Thus I'm showing what I've been able to do in a couple of weeks.  The layout was made in a few hours.

This. It seems to me that Squad wanted to create a stock replacement to KK. Well, they succeeded to the end that obviously they can now place structures into the game world. There is also a very limited similar capability via the Mission Editor, which allows you to place these barebones launch pads for missions (only!). So far, so good. Where the disappointment starts is that there is now obvious effort to make it good. That new Dessert Airfield and Launch Site was apparently a reaction to the community reacting very underwhelmed to that Woomerang launch site. What's more, apparently there is the ability to add structures the stock way via mods (as long as you have MH). Is there any documentation, any GUI? Again, no obvious effort.

I must admit I bought MH, because for one I wanted to show my support to the Team and ongoing development and for another one, because I thought, heck maybe that mission editor is fun and who's complaining about a second launch site. Where I again in this situation, contemplating on whether or not to buy MH, I wouldn't, because of the apparent lack of effort that is put into all of this. In the meantime, I'll play with KK...

Regards,

  - Sebastian

PS: The unfortunate truth is that I will look at any future DLCs (if any) very carefully before deciding to buy...

Edited April 22, 2018 by StarStreak2109
Forgot a lil sump'n

[Dafni]

So those new additional launchsites, pads, etc are really only available on missions in this mission editor thing? We wont be able to have them in our sandbox saves? Is that confirmed?

[LoSBoL]

11 minutes ago, Dafni said:

So those new additional launchsites, pads, etc are really only available on missions in this mission editor thing? We wont be able to have them in our sandbox saves? Is that confirmed?

You can use the KSC, Island Airfield, Woomerang and the desert launchsite in sandbox, science and career games, as long as you have the MH expansion installed. 

Unfortunately, You can only use the mobile launchpad and barge and launch from anywhere in the Kerbal system within missions. I'm hoping a mod creator could make this available in all the gamemodes. 

 

11 hours ago, Eskandare said:

Oh dear...    <-- you made this Kerbal sad...

 

@SQUAD, THIS is how you do it! 

Wow, you can take pride in your work, this looks awesome. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by LoSBoL

[StarStreak2109]

1 hour ago, Dafni said:

So those new additional launchsites, pads, etc are really only available on missions in this mission editor thing? We wont be able to have them in our sandbox saves? Is that confirmed?

No, like the Woomerang Launch Site, the new Dessert Air Field thingy would be available in the other game modes as well, provided you own MH.

[Kergarin]

On 20.4.2018 at 7:43 PM, Kergarin said:

What's the length of the dessert runway compared to KSC's? 

Is it longer? Is it? Is it? 

[razark]

19 hours ago, DeltaDizzy said:

THIS is how you do it!

I find this much more to my liking.

(However, I'd still like some lakebed runways.)

[passinglurker]

10 hours ago, StarStreak2109 said:

This. It seems to me that Squad wanted to create a stock replacement to KK. Well, they succeeded to the end that obviously they can now place structures into the game world. There is also a very limited similar capability via the Mission Editor, which allows you to place these barebones launch pads for missions (only!). So far, so good. Where the disappointment starts is that there is now obvious effort to make it good. That new Dessert Airfield and Launch Site was apparently a reaction to the community reacting very underwhelmed to that Woomerang launch site. What's more, apparently there is the ability to add structures the stock way via mods (as long as you have MH). Is there any documentation, any GUI? Again, no obvious effort.

Its an unfortunate rule of thumb that if the art assets doesn't look good then chances are the associated underpinnings and features are also rotten and low effort. I doubt we'll see modders trying to hook into the stock mobil launchpad system for this reason.

A shining example of this is the new 2.5m tanks. They look like krap on the surface but when you dig deeper... they get crappier, inconsistent textile density, out of control tricounts, and worse even poorer ram efficiency the texture sheets are actually bigger yet just as efficiently mapped as before its like they gave an intern the kerbodyne tanks and told him "just copy what this guy did then make a second set in a different color". Beauty might only be skin deep but ugly soaks through to the core...

[StarLord34829]

No development news for consoles?

[Enceos]

4 hours ago, razark said:

I find this much more to my liking.

(However, I'd still like some lakebed runways.)

As far as I know terrain in KSP changes its elevation at different quality levels, that's why KSC and any other buildings always needed a bump to place them on. Trying to place a runway on flat terrain may bury it underground for one terrain quality preset and have it floating in the air for another. Artificial elevation is the compromise.

[StrandedonEarth]

11 minutes ago, Enceos said:

As far as I know terrain in KSP changes its elevation at different quality levels, that's why KSC and any other buildings always needed a bump to place them on. Trying to place a runway on flat terrain may bury it underground for one terrain quality preset and have it floating in the air for another. Artificial elevation is the compromise.

That, and due to the small radius of Kerbin, having a perfectly "flat" runway means having the ends higher than the middle relative to the planetary center. That's why craft at either end of the runway want to roll towards the middle.

[razark]

2 hours ago, Enceos said:

As far as I know...

 

1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said:

That, and due to...

Well, if y'all are going to bring things like facts and logic into it, then it's just not fair!

I do appreciate the explanation, and it does make some sense.  I'm not sure about the "flat" runway, though.  I'm not sure I see why it needs to be flat in the first place, rather than just parallel to the surface of the planet along it's length.

 

Thinking of a way to do it:

The terrain around the KSC is completely flat smooth, so that's possible with the terrain already.  Would there be anything to stop simply putting a runway texture on flat smooth ground in the desert to achieve the same effect?  You could have some hangers, a tower, assorted other support buildings off to one side, and then the not-really-runways-but-just-look-like-it on flat smooth terrain.  That way, you don't need to worry about that elevation change.