Geocaching Mod Feasability

[Dingbat1967]

Howdy,

If you're not familiar with Geocaching, it's basically a real-world activity where people go around the planet and find caches left by other people (see www.geocaching.com), leave a little bauble if the cache is large enough and take one in it's stead, and then sign the log book if present and will usually log their visit on the www.geocaching.com website.

So the question I have for experienced modders is ... how feasable is it to do such a mod?

Barring real-time multiplayer, I think it would help solving the problem of "nothing to do in KSP once you've visited every place".  If players could leave a cache somewhere for others to go hunt down and log, anywhere in the Kerbol system, I think it could add a lot of flavor to the game.

I don't think you'd need to have new physical objects in the game, could just be a repurposing of the standard flag.

Cache location would I assume have an x,y,z location and a time location (so caches wouldn't be visible until later in the game) but I don't know enough about KSP modding to see what the problems would be.

A centralized system/database that would keep track of the logs and a website to login and record your new visits or planting a cache somewhere..

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Tyko]

You could use mission builder to create challenges to find things. That wouldn't require any new mods/coding.

To actually add a goal to another player's save would be a lot more work. Since the game is stored locally on a single-player save you'd have to write a mod that would enable you to create a target in one save (yours) and then somehow export that modification into their save game.

[HebaruSan]

Quote

I don't think you'd need to have new physical objects in the game, could just be a repurposing of the standard flag.

A centralized system/database that would keep track of the logs and a website to login and record your new visits or planting a cache somewhere..

Really neat idea! Reminds me of this:  https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Hearse

After you die in Nethack, a copy of the level where you died, including your corpse and scattered, decayed items, can be randomly auto-saved to disk for future playthroughs to encounter. Some clever soul created a utility to upload and download these "bones files" through a central server (apparently there were 9 uploads yesterday). This lets you stumble across other players' bones and vice versa, without needing actual multiplayer.

Your idea is similar; you could fly around the solar system and plant flags with various messages, and then the Astrocaching mod would allow you to upload them, as well as download flags from other players and spawn them in your world. I'm thinking it might make sense to make the uploading manual instead of automatic, to ensure the database is populated with entries that the uploading players consider interesting rather than hundreds of runway markers.

44 minutes ago, Dingbat1967 said:

So the question I have for experienced modders is ... how feasable is it to do such a mod?

On the technical side, I'd say it would be fairly easy. The hard parts would be: making it fun, growing a sizable enough player base, managing the server, and handling compatibility (flags couldn't be shared between stock and RSS, for example).

Edited August 10, 2018 by HebaruSan

[Dingbat1967]

4 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

Really neat idea! Reminds me of this:  https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Hearse

After you die in Nethack, a copy of the level where you died, including your corpse and scattered, decayed items, can be randomly auto-saved to disk for future playthroughs to encounter. Some clever soul created a utility to upload and download these "bones files" through a central server (apparently there were 9 uploads yesterday). This lets you stumble across other players' bones and vice versa, without needing actual multiplayer.

Your idea is similar; you could fly around the solar system and plant flags with various messages, and then the Astrocaching mod would allow you to upload them, as well as download flags from other players and spawn them in your world. I'm thinking it might make sense to make the uploading manual instead of automatic, to ensure the database is populated with entries that the uploading players consider interesting rather than hundreds of runway markers.

On the technical side, I'd say it would be fairly easy. The hard parts would be: making it fun, growing a sizable enough player base, managing the server, and handling compatibility (flags couldn't be shared between stock and RSS, for example).

 

Well the idea is to have user-generated content.  In real-world Geocaching, there are caches of different sizes and different difficulty levels.  A cache in the middle of the ocean of EVE would qualify as a very difficult cache to visit for instance.

Is there a good tutorial somewhere on how the coordinate system works in KSP?  Just wondering if it's something I could do myself.

 

 

[linuxgurugamer]

Would you plan on placing these directly on the map, or flying a plane or rockets to the location and planting the flag and then having that flag become a  Geo cache?

This is actually quite interesting. You got me thinking about several different ways of doing it.

[HebaruSan]

 

44 minutes ago, Dingbat1967 said:

Is there a good tutorial somewhere on how the coordinate system works in KSP?  Just wondering if it's something I could do myself.

Assuming you base it on stock flags, you might not need to worry about the coordinates at all; just importing/exporting the Vessel representing a flag ought to be enough to transfer a marker from one player's game to another's:

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_vessel.html

Of course compatibility of modded planets is still a problem, but for an initial release maybe you could just caution that it's for the stock system only.

44 minutes ago, Dingbat1967 said:

Well the idea is to have user-generated content.  In real-world Geocaching, there are caches of different sizes and different difficulty levels.  A cache in the middle of the ocean of EVE would qualify as a very difficult cache to visit for instance.

OK, so stock flags plus some modded metadata. Pretty sure you could do that by applying a new PartModule with a ModuleManager patch. E.g., place flag, enter title and description, then right click it and choose "Edit Geocaching data" to fill in the additional fields and upload.

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_part_module.html

[linuxgurugamer]

@Dingbat1967

If you aren't going to do this, let me know.  I don't  want to steal your idea, so I will wait until I hear from you or see a reply here

[Superfluous J]

Yeah I used to LOVE geocaching. I still do but don't really play anymore. When I upgraded my GPS (It wasn't even a phone back then) I put my old one in a 5/5 cache with a note to please leave it unless you really needed it.

I think it'd be very fun to fly somewhere, leave some kind of construction, tag it for inclusion as a cache, and then through some magical whatnot have others be able to find it.

And if there was some mechanism for multicaches all the better.

[linuxgurugamer]

I am very annoyed.

I'm not going to be able to stop thinking about this over the weekend

 

[CobaltWolf]

@Stone Blue

[Benjamin Kerman]

@linuxgurugamer @HebaruSan If you guys want to do this as a collaboration, I would love to help! I've had a good bit of modding experience with KSP, and am relatively well versed in C#. 

What we could do is have a dedicated 'Geocache' part that would be created when a player created a flag tagged 'Geocache: [name]'. This might be easier to work with than flags. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Benjamin Kerman

[linuxgurugamer]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

@linuxgurugamer @HebaruSan If you guys want to do this as a collaboration, I would love to help! I've had a good bit of modding experience with KSP, and am relatively well versed in C#. 

What we could do is have a dedicated 'Geocache' part that would be created when a player created a flag tagged 'Geocache: [name]'. This might be easier to work with than flags. 

My thoughts are to be able to use the VesselModule to be able to specify anything as a Geocache part.

@HebaruSan @Benjamin Kerman @Dingbat1967

If you all want to discuss this, I'm open to it.  Only issue is that everyone will need to be running the same version of Visual Studio.  I have a Jenkins server which can be used to do common builds, etc.

[HebaruSan]

12 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

@linuxgurugamer @HebaruSan If you guys want to do this as a collaboration, I would love to help!

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

 

@HebaruSan @Benjamin Kerman @Dingbat1967

If you all want to discuss this, I'm open to it.

You guys go ahead. I like this idea, but I wasn't planning to work on it.

[Stone Blue]

As an old geocacher, when I first started playing KSP, I used the KerbalGPS (Figaro) mod. I spent a few hours trying to think of how geocaching could be incorporated into KSP. Not being a modder, and knowing less then, than i do now, i couldnt come up with anything.

I've always hoped the KerbalGPS mod would make a come back. I even got @tg626 to take a look at it, recompile, and modify it a bit (for KSP 1.3.1, IIRC). I was gonna make some new parts for it. (I already have a GPS antenna that replaces the Figaro part).

Heres the mod in question...

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/22673-10-figaro-global-navigation-satellite-system-launch-a-working-gps-system/

EDIT: OK... I guess it was way back for 1.2.2 that TG626 played around with it.
here's his repo for it:
https://github.com/TedThompson/KerbalGPS

Edited August 11, 2018 by Stone Blue

[Dingbat1967]

22 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I am very annoyed.

I'm not going to be able to stop thinking about this over the weekend

 

Dude... i have never modded KSP before other than helping out a long time ago with KMP... you write it I will be happy to QA it..  I would even be happy to host the infra required for the central DB yu would need for the tracking of caches....

Ding.

 

 

On 8/10/2018 at 5:43 PM, HebaruSan said:

 

Assuming you base it on stock flags, you might not need to worry about the coordinates at all; just importing/exporting the Vessel representing a flag ought to be enough to transfer a marker from one player's game to another's:

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_vessel.html

Of course compatibility of modded planets is still a problem, but for an initial release maybe you could just caution that it's for the stock system only.

OK, so stock flags plus some modded metadata. Pretty sure you could do that by applying a new PartModule with a ModuleManager patch. E.g., place flag, enter title and description, then right click it and choose "Edit Geocaching data" to fill in the additional fields and upload.

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_part_module.html

I am assuming you can turn off the "take down flag" ability so that caches stay persistent.  just so you do not have a troll taking down caches.

 

[linuxgurugamer]

A number of things need to be done for this:

• create a method to label a vessel as a geocache vessel
• Decide what needs to be stored as part of the geocache information

1. Mods needed
2. description
3. requirements

• write method to export all geocache vessels from a game into a geocache cfg file
• write method to import a geocache cfg file
• write method to delete existing geocache vessels, both all of thhem, and those which came from a specific geocache cfg file
• create ui to handle all of these tasks

And then there is the website issue.

• create user login
• upload geocache file
• download geocache file
• list all goecache files
• search geocache files

While not necessary, it would be nice to be able to have the mod upload and download directly from the website, similar to the way KerbalX does it.

I’m sure there are other questions and issues, would appreciate a discussion about this

[JH4C]

If you make it possible to have any vessel a geocache target (which I do think offers much greater potential than just using flags,) then I would suggest there being some kind of parts count made, to prevent people potentially dumping multiple thousand-part models onto unwary users. Of course, there would also need to be some form of validation to prevent you from getting a target that can't be loaded due to lack of parts...

Maybe a custom part would make most sense. It can (presumably) still be flagged as a self-contained vessel in the same way that asteroids are one-part "vessels"? Something you can either grapple with the Klaw, or open while on EVA, and then you get to add your name to a list. When you save the game, any parts you've visited can be extracted from your save and uploaded along with the log details, which the website would have to add into the ongoing roster - I'm assuming that it would be not only possible but desirable to have the same item in multiple games simultaneously, so there'd need to be some site-side file administration to ensure that one upload doesn't overwrite an earlier one, but that it gets merged instead.

This is all way beyond my ability to help with, but I hope I've added something to the discussion.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Stone Blue said:

As an old geocacher, when I first started playing KSP, I used the KerbalGPS (Figaro) mod. I spent a few hours trying to think of how geocaching could be incorporated into KSP. Not being a modder, and knowing less then, than i do now, i couldnt come up with anything.

I've always hoped the KerbalGPS mod would make a come back. I even got @tg626 to take a look at it, recompile, and modify it a bit (for KSP 1.3.1, IIRC). I was gonna make some new parts for it. (I already have a GPS antenna that replaces the Figaro part).

Heres the mod in question...

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/22673-10-figaro-global-navigation-satellite-system-launch-a-working-gps-system/

EDIT: OK... I guess it was way back for 1.2.2 that TG626 played around with it.
here's his repo for it:
https://github.com/TedThompson/KerbalGPS

Its interesting, I’ll see if I can revive it.  I assume you would be willing to test and qa it?

and you said you had some parts for it?

8 minutes ago, JH4C said:

If you make it possible to have any vessel a geocache target (which I do think offers much greater potential than just using flags,) then I would suggest there being some kind of parts count made, to prevent people potentially dumping multiple thousand-part models onto unwary users. Of course, there would also need to be some form of validation to prevent you from getting a target that can't be loaded due to lack of parts...

Maybe a custom part would make most sense. It can (presumably) still be flagged as a self-contained vessel in the same way that asteroids are one-part "vessels"? Something you can either grapple with the Klaw, or open while on EVA, and then you get to add your name to a list. When you save the game, any parts you've visited can be extracted from your save and uploaded along with the log details, which the website would have to add into the ongoing roster - I'm assuming that it would be not only possible but desirable to have the same item in multiple games simultaneously, so there'd need to be some site-side file administration to ensure that one upload doesn't overwrite an earlier one, but that it gets merged instead.

This is all way beyond my ability to help with, but I hope I've added something to the discussion.

I’d prefer to have the geocache cfg file list the items, and parts in each item.  Just having a custom part is nice, but imagine if you are looking for the Lost Mines of King Soloman, or the location of the final resting place of Jeremiah Kerman, etc.  Would be nice to actually find something there.

Edited August 11, 2018 by linuxgurugamer

[Dingbat1967]

35 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

A number of things need to be done for this:

• create a method to label a vessel as a geocache vessel
• Decide what needs to be stored as part of the geocache information

1. Mods needed
2. description
3. requirements

• write method to export all geocache vessels from a game into a geocache cfg file
• write method to import a geocache cfg file
• write method to delete existing geocache vessels, both all of thhem, and those which came from a specific geocache cfg file
• create ui to handle all of these tasks

And then there is the website issue.

• create user login
• upload geocache file
• download geocache file
• list all goecache files
• search geocache files

While not necessary, it would be nice to be able to have the mod upload and download directly from the website, similar to the way KerbalX does it.

I’m sure there are other questions and issues, would appreciate a discussion about this

the way geocaching.com handles it to let users download limited sets of .gpx files.  nobody would download all the caches that exist.  Usually you would download the individual geocache files for a limited area and difficulty.

i can envision something similar with ksp.

 

 

[linuxgurugamer]

So I wasn’t thinking about people modifying a geocache and reuploading it.  That raises a lot of other questions.

How do you deal with the fact of multiple people searching for, and finding, the same cache?

What sort of changes would you want to allow people to make?

 

Continuing this, I think it would be best to have the mod tell the website the id of the player (website login) when found.

And, to tell the player who else has found that particular geocache .

[Stone Blue]

37 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Its interesting, I’ll see if I can revive it.  I assume you would be willing to test and qa it?

and you said you had some parts for it?

I’d prefer to have the geocache cfg file list the items, and parts in each item.  Just having a custom part is nice, but imagine if you are looking for the Lost Mines of King Soloman, or the location of the final resting place of Jeremiah Kerman, etc.  Would be nice to actually find something there.

Kewl

Not sure aboot QA'ing it... I've had computer issues, and havent played KSP in a few months...
I do hope to get back to it soon, tho.

Yeah... I made a basic "frisbee" antenna for the mod. THAT "should" work as-is... it did when Pakled was maintaining the mod, and its a super sinple part cfg.

Hmmm... a geocaching "vessel"?... I would envision maybe a gecache "part"... which maybe has KIS/KAS capability. maybe have a "notecard" part, that goes in the box, that has a descriptio, notes, coords or hints to other "legs" (if a multi-cache)... vOv

Maybe tie it in with that "badge/ribbon" mod, (NOT as a dependency, but optional), where you "get" or "earn" a specific badge/ribbon for each cache?
I forget the name of that mod... I never used it.

Maybe also somehow have a "part", that acts as a travelbug, that could be taken and moved around between cahces by players? vOv
Travelbugs log "mileage", and sometimes have "missions", to get to specific locations, caches, or people...

Heres a couple pics of the receiver antenna I made (my first ever KSP part )
https://imgur.com/a/O0k8lOB

2nd pic shows the scale of it better...its a small part

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Stone Blue

[linuxgurugamer]

6 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Not sure aboot QA'ing it... I've had computer issues, and havent played KSP in a few months...
I do hope to get back to it soon, tho.

No problem.

6 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Yeah... I made a basic "frisbee" antenna for the mod. THAT "should" work as-is... it did when Pakled was maintaining the mod, and its a super sinple part cfg.

Was that included?

8 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Hmmm... a geocaching "vessel"?... I would envision maybe a gecache "part"... which maybe has KIS/KAS capability. maybe have a "notecard" part, that goes in the box, that has a descriptio, notes, coords or hints to other "legs" (if a multi-cache)... vOv

I would allow any vessel to be marked as a geocache site.  In KSP, everything is a vessel

10 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Maybe tie it in with that "badge/ribbon" mod, (NOT as a dependency, but optional), where you "get" or "earn" a specific badge/ribbon for each cache?
I forget the name of that mod... I never used it.

Final Frontier.  good idea

10 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Maybe also somehow have a "part", that acts as a travelbug, that could be taken and moved around between cahces by players? vOv
Travelbugs log "mileage", and sometimes have "missions", to get to specific locations, caches, or people

See my previous post , I think there are too many problems with this 

[Stone Blue]

9 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Was that included?

No... I offered it up for inclusion, but IIRC, it was around the time Pakled was not very active in maintaining/updating anymoar.
See my previous editied post for a link to pics.

9 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

In KSP, everything is a vessel

Oh, yeah... I'm not a coder, so I think I forgot that aspect

9 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Final Frontier.  good idea

yeah, thats it

9 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

See my previous post , I think there are too many problems with this 

yes, I can see where it could be a bear to code that functionality. Just thought I'd throw it out there, just in case... or in case it made someone think of some kind of alternative type of thing

Edited August 12, 2018 by Stone Blue

[linuxgurugamer]

Just now, Stone Blue said:

No... I offered it up for inclusion, but IIRC, it was around the time Pakled was very active in maintaining/updating anymoar

Actually, it is there.  Would be nice to get it updated with some lights

[Stone Blue]

3 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Actually, it is there.  Would be nice to get it updated with some lights

Oh? is it?... huh...
EDIT: actually, in Pakled's version, or TG626's?

Hmmm... maybe a "blinky" light, when its "actively receiving", or moar like an on/off light for the whole time the mod is either active or not in use?

Edited August 12, 2018 by Stone Blue