Kerbal Space Program Breaks Ground with a New DLC!

[Red Iron Crown]

Good job, Squad. It's been a long time since an announcement about KSP has gotten me as excited as this one has. 

The new features look great, but more importantly this DLC demonstrates a real commitment to continued development of the game. After the Take Two changeover there was a lot of concern about unscrupulous monetization of the game via low effort DLCs, I'm relieved to see that real value will be delivered for the DLC money. Making History was... OK I guess, but it felt like a parts pack and the Mission Builder thing just never resonated with me. This one, however, has features I've long desired. 

Kudos as well for keeping your promise to the early supporters of the game regarding free expansions; a part of me expected that to fall by the wayside under new management. I think I'll gift the DLC to a couple of my friends who didn't make the cutoff like I did. 

It's also wonderful to see the Squad people answering questions and participating in the community in this thread, feels like 2012 in here. 

Also: This thread has all the usual suspects:

"Mods do this already/better" 

"This should be free/it's too expensive" 

"These parts/textures are ugly" 

"Why new features when bugs still exist?" 

Don't mind the haters. I expect the Hype Train will reach new highs with this release. 

[StupidAndy]

neat

[Eskandare]

18 minutes ago, Nigel Cardozo said:

I just started to us CVX a day ago

Oh cool! Sorry that it's pretty dated though. I'm working on an update that should make everyone happy.

[Foxster]

I remember making several posts a while ago about needing stuff to do at your destination and also about needing robotic parts  - so GG on those guys!

[snip]

Edited May 8, 2019 by Vanamonde

[Xavven]

12 hours ago, lodiped said:

Yeah, yeah. So you go in to buy a candy, you get out of the store and when you open the candy you see there's only half in there, "oh well", you think, "it's one of them candies, isn't it?", so you go back into the store and give the guy another buck so you can finally have the full candy you originally paid for. That's very reasonable, of course.

While I understand what you're getting at, that core game improvements should be free, there's a problem with your analogy. If a product is clearly defective (as is the case with this half-a-candy-bar analogy) then the expectation is that the seller makes amends. In software development, if the code is clearly broken, the bug fixes should be free.

But KSP 1.7 isn't broken. It's a complete game. The product is not defective. You may feel like some core game mechanics aren't completely fleshed out to your liking, but that doesn't mean the developer has to improve those core mechanics for free until you're satisfied.

[Thorn_Ike]

Well, rest in peace Infernal Robotics. Either way, am pumped! I am ready for the purchase!

[Lisias]

2 minutes ago, Thorn_Ike said:

Well, rest in peace Infernal Robotics. Either way, am pumped! I am ready for the purchase!

Not exactly. IR will be somewhat less popular, but the source is available and new tricks can be derived from it - and now that there's a canonical implementation, there's no need to worry about not breaking legacy.

I wonder if a kind of "Infernal Robotics Light" would be possible, allowing savegames using the Classic Infernal Robotics to be used with the DLC instead of the IR guts. Otherwise, I see a long way to go until IR became really unneeded.

[lordqarlyn]

I have to chime in as one who also thinks the planets and moons are bland and almost cookie cutter like. 

What I would like to see, the planets with terrain and features like No Man's Sky. Okay, okay that game isn't perfect, but when I am playing it, going through caves, on rough terrain, even hills and mountains, flying around on the planets, I often find myself thinking how cool it would be if Mun or Duna or Eve had features like these. To land in a spot and just over the hill, a long lava tube that goes on and on, and deep inside, are new types of surface samples (perhaps individual features could be their own biomes) that add even more to science and perhaps even prestige. I mean seriously, I would love to see the analogue of Olympus Mons or Mariner Valles on Duna lol. While I am sure there are mods that do this, (Asclepius does come a little bit close to being a planet with terrain like those in NMS), as others pointed out being stock integrates with the game much better.

[klgraham1013]

5 hours ago, MechBFP said:

Pretty much guaranteed to come to console, as that is likely a rather large chunk of their user base pie. 

[citation needed]

Personally, I highly doubt this to be the case.  Consider how far ahead the PC version still is, and that gap is only growing.  The console version, from the very beginning, has been the red headed step child of the bunch.  I expect that trend to continue.

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Also: This thread has all the usual suspects:

"Mods do this already/better" 

"This should be free/it's too expensive" 

"These parts/textures are ugly" 

"Why new features when bugs still exist?" 

Sure.  ...but let's not let a few negative comments over shadow the majority praise this announcement has received.  This community has been labeled unable to be pleased, but this is a fine example to the opposite.  We are just as willing to give worthy praise as we are worthy criticism.   Make a good product, and we will praise you to the Mun.

Edited May 8, 2019 by klgraham1013

[Angelo Kerman]

2 hours ago, Eskandare said:

Yeh I like SEP as it is one of the core mods I use in my non-dev install. And of course WBI (which I need for the new rotors mechanics and the helicarrier in CVX.

Those would not go away, I just wouldn’t need to make robot parts based on KA plugin logic. The DLC robotics are the most exciting for me, as I can finally dust off plans to make a Tri-ATHLETE inspired rover.

[T1mo98]

A message to the people who are complaining that this should be free:

 

Creating a game or adding brand new and extensive mechanics to it aren't free.

[Eskandare]

12 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Those would not go away, I just wouldn’t need to make robot parts based on KA plugin logic. The DLC robotics are the most exciting for me, as I can finally dust off plans to make a Tri-ATHLETE inspired rover.

I am totally looking forward to swing wing aircraft and ditching some of the planned parts for Eskandare Aeronautics (or at least make better ones for wings). Also, I'm looking forward to making construction and drilling mechs. I may have to make Eskandare Robotics, parts like feet, arms and legs for mechs and construction vehicles. I'm so excited and inspired.

[KerballingSmasher]

2 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

I expect the Hype Train will reach new highs

HYPE TRAIN!

[Guest]

I will be making my first Base! YAY! 

[Mikki]

KSP Forums will blow by the roof when this DLC drops; hinges, pistons, hubs and robotics will be the neverending source of Kerbal contraptions.

I expect the forum to collapse when players fire up the expansion.

I remember when i installed infernal robotics, it was the blast of my usertime in KSP. And now in stock KSP, thank Lord!

And coptering above atmospheric bodys like Duna, Laythe and Eve will give us the rest.

Choppers in Jools atmosphere? Oh hell, yes! Yes! Yes!!!

[Guest]

My last rover... No robotic parts

[pandaman]

Looking forward to this update .

The idea that the new surface features be included in the base game is a good one, but, depending on how common they are, it may make sense to have fewer in the base game than the DLC.  So there is a larger variety of things to find, but maybe not as many and not as big a selection as in the DLC.

Ideally for me the planets themselves will receive a bit of remodelling though. Kerbin isn't too bad, but the rest would benefit from adding 'big stuff' like dried up riverbeds etc and just enhancing the topography that is already there to make it a little more spectacular.  This could create havoc with existing saves though, like if a large base suddenly finds itself halfway up a cliff, so adequate warnings would need to be given if that ever happens.

[Lord Aurelius]

Awesome, this expansion is actually attempting to directly address many of the problems with the game. Expansions should do things that are difficult to do with mods, and the new ground science system definitely ticks that box and potentially solves one of the major issues with the base game (boring planets) if done correctly.

Stock robotics will be very nice as well, especially for building highly compact payloads that can be unfolded later like are used IRL. Also look forwards to seeing all the insane robotic contraptions people come up with.

My only complaint at the moment is that I bought the game one month too late to get the DLC for free...

 

Anyways, really pleased with the direction the devs are continuing to take the game with actually addressing many of the problem points that should have been worked through before 1.0.

 

Now the game just needs an (optional) life support mechanic (same idea as the optional comm network feature), Kerbal Construction Time integration (IRL you can't build a rocket instantly), career gameplay overhaul (give us long-term goals beyond just filling out the tech tree, and rethink/rebalance the tech tree, building upgrades, contracts and part costs in general), a good story-driven campaign (effectively a bunch of interesting related scenarios with cutscenes in between that can also serve as a fun tutorial for the full game), a full part overhaul (including rebalance and adding new parts to fill holes), and an audio/graphic/QoL/polish pass to bring everything up to the same standard of quality. Still lots of work to be done, but at least now I can tentatively check "give us something interesting to do on planets" off the list.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Lord Aurelius

[Lisias]

5 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

Personally, I highly doubt this to be the case.  Consider how far ahead the PC version still is, and that gap is only growing.  The console version, from the very beginning, has been the red headed step child of the bunch.  I expect that trend to continue.

I see the reasons behind your rationale, and they are solid as rock. But rocks can be eroded by water, given enough time.

The main problem on the console is that they are similar enough to PCs to make a direct porting to them look easy, but they are not similar enough for effectively deliver that except on the simplest use cases.

But this is going to change in a way or another (and perhaps both ways) as the new Console generation is already knocking in our doors, and I expect that the lessons learned in the 1.4 series reflects on the next KSP iterations - not only on the internal design (performance) but also on demanding for Unity's responsibility on his product (or plain ditching them for a better solution - and better solutions exists, some even aiming to replace Unity).

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Lisias
terrible grammars. too much coffee, I think. =P

[SG Aero]

I’m very irritated that this is DLC. The robotic parts are fine as dlc. Why in hell are the surface features dlc? That’s doesn’t make any god damn sense.

Edited May 8, 2019 by ShadowGoat

[Yakuzi]

14 minutes ago, Lord Aurelius said:

Awesome, this expansion is actually attempting to directly address many of the problems with the game. Expansions should do things that are difficult to do with mods, and the new ground science system definitely ticks that box and potentially solves one of the major issues with the base game (boring planets) if done correctly.

Stock robotics will be very nice as well, especially for building highly compact payloads that can be unfolded later like are used IRL. Also look forwards to seeing all the insane robotic contraptions people come up with.

My only complaint at the moment is that I bought the game one month too late to get the DLC for free...

 

Anyways, really pleased with the direction the devs are continuing to take the game with actually addressing many of the problem points that should have been worked through before 1.0.

 

Now the game just needs an (optional) life support mechanic (same idea as the optional comm network feature), Kerbal Construction Time integration (IRL you can't build a rocket instantly), career gameplay overhaul (give us long-term goals beyond just filling out the tech tree, and rethink/rebalance the tech tree, building upgrades, contracts and part costs in general), a good story-driven campaign (effectively a bunch of interesting related scenarios with cutscenes in between that can also serve as a fun tutorial for the full game), a full part overhaul (including rebalance and adding new parts to fill holes), and an audio/graphic/QoL/polish pass to bring everything up to the same standard of quality. Still lots of work to be done, but at least now I can tentatively check "give us something interesting to do on planets" off the list.

Excellent post, summarizes all my concerns perfectly, +1 (once I'm allowed to again).

Since the whole rushed beta and "1.0" release of KSP, the tax evasion scheme and the dev mass exodus, I've been quite skeptical of Squad (the marketing company). Now that Squad (the KSP development branch) is under the umbrella of Private Division, it seems take to the concerns and suggestions of the playerbase on board again, quite reminiscent of 2012-2013. Unless Breaking Ground turns out to be seriously underwhelming/buggy, I'll buy this DLC just to reward the devs for listening to the community (and who knows, unlike Making History it may actually be fun ).

For the first time in a long time I find myself cautiously optimistic about KSP's future, good work @SQUAD!

[Triop]

I was just thinking, how many of us are going to watch KerbalX closely to see the first cool robotics crafts ?

[basic.syntax]

35 minutes ago, ShadowGoat said:

... The robotic parts are fine as dlc. Why in hell are the surface features dlc? ...

That's not set in stone, IMO. Ask politely! I think it would be good marketing (Squad!) to give everyone the new surface features, it would just not be possible to "science" them without the DLC.

[Xavven]

1 hour ago, Lord Aurelius said:

Awesome, this expansion is actually attempting to directly address many of the problems with the game. Expansions should do things that are difficult to do with mods, and the new ground science system definitely ticks that box and potentially solves one of the major issues with the base game (boring planets) if done correctly.

Stock robotics will be very nice as well, especially for building highly compact payloads that can be unfolded later like are used IRL. Also look forwards to seeing all the insane robotic contraptions people come up with.

My only complaint at the moment is that I bought the game one month too late to get the DLC for free...

 

Anyways, really pleased with the direction the devs are continuing to take the game with actually addressing many of the problem points that should have been worked through before 1.0.

 

Now the game just needs an (optional) life support mechanic (same idea as the optional comm network feature), Kerbal Construction Time integration (IRL you can't build a rocket instantly), career gameplay overhaul (give us long-term goals beyond just filling out the tech tree, and rethink/rebalance the tech tree, building upgrades, contracts and part costs in general), a good story-driven campaign (effectively a bunch of interesting related scenarios with cutscenes in between that can also serve as a fun tutorial for the full game), a full part overhaul (including rebalance and adding new parts to fill holes), and an audio/graphic/QoL/polish pass to bring everything up to the same standard of quality. Still lots of work to be done, but at least now I can tentatively check "give us something interesting to do on planets" off the list.

Your post basically sums up my thoughts on KSP's development as well. Hell I could have written almost all of that myself, word for word. This DLC is moving things in the right direction for sure and I hope the devs keep going and implement these suggestions.

[Phoenix84]

1 hour ago, Lord Aurelius said:

Now the game just needs an (optional) life support mechanic (same idea as the optional comm network feature), Kerbal Construction Time integration (IRL you can't build a rocket instantly), career gameplay overhaul (give us long-term goals beyond just filling out the tech tree, and rethink/rebalance the tech tree, building upgrades, contracts and part costs in general), a good story-driven campaign (effectively a bunch of interesting related scenarios with cutscenes in between that can also serve as a fun tutorial for the full game), a full part overhaul (including rebalance and adding new parts to fill holes), and an audio/graphic/QoL/polish pass to bring everything up to the same standard of quality. Still lots of work to be done, but at least now I can tentatively check "give us something interesting to do on planets" off the list.

I use "Snacks" mod as I like to have a little Kerbal management in missions, but don't want to deal with the entire life support system/cycle. Something like Snacks integrated into the base game would be fantastic. Something simple, but can easily be expanded/replaced by something more detailed by modders for those that want a more full system.

As for storyline, I kind of think of contracts like that. Something more expansive would also be nice, maybe hooking into contracts to give the player a little freedom in the storyline. Like "Alright, we need to get a probe to the Mun, you figure out the best way", and the path to get there can be through various contracts to build up to the big "Mun probe contract."

2 hours ago, pandaman said:

This could create havoc with existing saves though, like if a large base suddenly finds itself halfway up a cliff, so adequate warnings would need to be given if that ever happens.

Am I the only one that starts a new save for each new major version?

Maybe I'm used to the early access days.