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TLA_DEBUG_STACK_LEAK

Commodore_32
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Commodore_32

Commodore_32

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18 hours ago, Lisias said:

Try it again lowering the textures to the minimum bearable, as well lowering the rendering quality (so the 3D engine use less vertices on the mesh). But keep everything else up.

Starting the test.

OpenGL: Off

Mod list:

Spoiler

AlphaMensae's Modular Launch Pads (ModularLaunchPads 2.0.8)
Animated Decouplers (AnimatedDecouplers v1.4.2.2)
B9 Part Switch (B9PartSwitch v2.17.0)
BetterTimeWarpContinued (BetterTimeWarpCont 2.3.12.6)
Breaking Ground (BreakingGround-DLC 1.5.1)
CA - Mk3 Block II (CAMk3BlockII 1:0.2)
ClickThrough Blocker (ClickThroughBlocker 1:0.1.10.11)
Community Category Kit (CommunityCategoryKit 5.1.0.0)
Craft Manager (CraftManager 1.2.0)
Custom Pre Lauch Checks (CustomPreLaunchChecks 1.8.1)
Firespitter Core (FirespitterCore v7.15)
Kerbal Engineer Redux (KerbalEngineerRedux 1.1.7.2)
Kerbal Reusability Expansion (SpaceXLegs 2.8.6)
Kerbal-Konstructs (KerbalKonstructs 1.8.1.15)
Kerbin Side Remastered (KerbinSideRemastered 1.0.1)
KXAPI (KXAPI 1.2.0)
Making History (MakingHistory-DLC 1.10.1)
MechJeb 2 (MechJeb2 2.11.0.0)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 4.1.4)
Near Future IVA Props (NearFutureProps 1:0.6.3)
Retractable Lifting Surface Module (RetractableLiftingSurface 0.2.1.1)
Shuttle Lifting Body (ShuttleLiftingBodyCormorantAeronology 1.5.1)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.8.14.0)
Toolbar Controller (ToolbarController 1:0.1.9.4)
Tundra Exploration - Stockalike Dragon V2 and Falcon 9 (TundraExploration 2.1.0)
Tundra's Space Center (TundraSpaceCenter 2.0.1)
VaporVent (VaporVent 1.1.10)
VesselMover Continued (VesselMoverContinued v1.10.0)
Zero MiniAVC (ZeroMiniAVC 1:1.1.0.1)

 

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Commodore_32

Commodore_32

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Tests excecuted, no TLAs unfortunaly.

So I changed FPS limit to 180, all textures and scenery to minimum, hopped into the save where the last TLA appered, loaded the ship I was working on aaand nothing.

So I loaded my TLA test bench and fired these 40+ engines up.

IMG_20200921_183918172.jpg

And again nothing, even I splashed it.

@Lisias

 

Edited by Commodore_32
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Lisias

Lisias

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1 hour ago, Commodore_32 said:

So I loaded my TLA test bench and fired these 40+ engines up.

IMG_20200921_183918172.jpg

And again nothing, even I splashed it.

I was (re)reading the Unity documentation, and I just realised that I misunderstood the vsync.

When you activate the vsync, the FPS is ignored - and, frankly, I don't know how in hell I could had missed this detail.

Just for the piece peace of mind, turn off the V-Sync option ("Don't Sync") and keep cranked up the Frame Limit.

If this doesn't trigger the TLA on you, then definitively the Particles are not he culprit for this.

And, by the way, magnificent screenshot! :)

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Commodore_32

Commodore_32

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21 minutes ago, Lisias said:

And, by the way, magnificent screenshot! :)

Believe me it wasn't a screenshot, it was a pic from my phone, because real screenshots are broken while that thing is up.

23 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Just for the piece peace of mind, turn off the V-Sync option ("Don't Sync") and keep cranked up the Frame Limit.

Oh darn it, I will test it tomorrow.

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Lewie

Lewie

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1 hour ago, Commodore_32 said:

Welp, since the @Lewie finally got my save back, I played KSP and disabled V-Sync, got to the SPH and started doing a contraption, and unexpectedly the TLA happended, logs and mod list:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtUgGSbBKMe8iytFJlHFU7BF_dTa?e=FO9YKe

@Lisias

Oh man...I have no idea why that happened. All I did was drag the folder and it’s contents into a dropbox folder...huh.

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Lisias

Lisias

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7 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

Welp, since the @Lewie finally got my save back, I played KSP and disabled V-Sync, got to the SPH and started doing a contraption, and unexpectedly the TLA happended, logs and mod list:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtUgGSbBKMe8iytFJlHFU7BF_dTa?e=FO9YKe

@Lisias

"Great" :P

Try openGL and se if anything changes!

I will check the log by the morning!

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Lisias

Lisias

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15 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

Guess what!

I got straight to the SPH, loaded my yesterday's contraption, selected a part and TLA.

OpenGL on, same settings, same modlist.

You did a great help here: you pinpointed the problem to something on Unity or KSP without any doubt. DirectX and OpenGL are pretty different engines, they would not give us the very same bug - you ruled out a device driver (direct) bug - it may be something triggered by it, but not something on it.

You also kinda ruled out the Particles as inherent part of the problem. They are just one of the triggers (if that), whatever is killing the game with a TLA, it's something that also happens on the Editor Scene too.

I'm updating my guesses to Lights and/or Reflection. Or shadows...

Create carefully a new backup with the current blowing game (so you have a solid way to create new test beds for this problem!). I think you should try to contact Squad now, as you have an invaluable debugging artifact for them and they are the ones that really (should) know what happens on the scenes.

In the mean time, and using a backup :) , and without meddling with the frame rate, and if you are on the mood (obviously!) try to reduce the Pixel Light Count, the Shadow Cascades or the size of the reflection thingy on the Graphics Setting to see if anything different happens...

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Commodore_32

Commodore_32

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Hey @Lisias, I'm seeing something in V-Sync that is interesting.

So, the last TLAs that showed up were with V-Sync off, and I enabled V-Sync (because I also want to play normally you know) and in the same circumstances, there was no TLA, tho I saw 2 or 3 on the logs, but KSP didn't crash in any moment, so probably is an advantadge, I will test KSP with V-Sync on, do somethings, etc and I will post the results here.

7 hours ago, Lisias said:

Create carefully a new backup with the current blowing game

Yeah, so copying and pasting the entire game is alright?

Or do I need to tell Steam to somehow do a new install?

7 hours ago, Lisias said:

I think you should try to contact Squad now

First question: How?

Second question: What I would tell them to do?

Third queston: Will they be able to reproduce it?

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Lisias

Lisias

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

Yeah, so copying and pasting the entire game is alright?

Right click, and Zip the whole shebang. This will also garantee integrity.

Do it while dinning - this can take a while!

Then move the zip file to somewhere safe ("My Documents" or similar)

  

3 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

Or do I need to tell Steam to somehow do a new install?

Better not. Copy and pasting the whole directory is better than mangling with Steam.

You should be doing that anyway, only playing with a "off steam" copy of KSP to prevent tragedies due updates.

But having a zipped copy of the whole thing, besides taking a bit of time, it's safer as the zip will calculate checksums and you will be absolutely sure the thing is exactly what it was.

  

3 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

First question: How?

Opening a issue on the bugtrack, and then pesking Squad team members to check this thread! :D

 

3 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

Second question: What I would tell them to do?

It's the other way around - they will tell you what to do to help them!

 

3 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

Third queston: Will they be able to reproduce it?

With a perfect copy of an installment where the TLA is deterministically activated and deactivated? BY ALL MEANS, YES!

You have the Holy Grail of the almost impossible hard bugs to diagnose, you have a working test bed for the bug! :)

 

Edited by Lisias
Hit "Save" too soon.
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Lisias

Lisias

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4 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

And it happended againnn!!! @Lisias

[...]

Where did it happen? VAB

What's puzzles me is this thing happening on the VAB.

I doubt it has something to do with Particles by now.

Publish the settings.cfg too, I want to force my KSP 1.10.1 to behave like yours to see what happens!

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Commodore_32

Commodore_32

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11 hours ago, Lisias said:

Publish the settings.cfg too, I want to force my KSP 1.10.1 to behave like yours to see what happens!

Udpated folder with settings.cfg

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtUgGSbBKMe8iz0pqxJV8KAezM5_?e=jCDjcg

And I started to think about computer specs now, so I request @GuessingEveryDay @Tokamak to share your specs of your PC that you got the TLA with.

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GuessingEveryDay

GuessingEveryDay

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Just now, Commodore_32 said:

And I started to think about computer specs now, so I request @GuessingEveryDay @Tokamak to share your specs of your PC that you got the TLA with.

I have a Pentium-G4400 3.3Ghz CPU, with 8GB RAM, Intel Graphics 510. Soon I'm upgrading to a i5-6500 with Intel Graphics 530. Soon as I get a fan/heatsink, I'll replace it.

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Lisias

Lisias

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3 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

but Idk you are the expert

Me? Expert? I'm only a smart SAS with some pretty good guesses! :D

@SQUAD are the experts on this here - problem, the more you know about, more possibilities you find - what we are doing here what you are doing here is narrowing down that sea of possibilities in order to make easier (or less hard!) the heavy lifting @SQUAD need to do to nail down this Kraken Damned <insert your favorite non forum compliant compliment here> bug!

I'm downloading the settings.cfg. I will take some time (RL job, I'm late on a task...), but I will try your settings for sure - yet this week, unless some crazy dude decides to change something on production again without testing it on QAS (or at least warning me, damnit! :sticktongue:).

 

7 hours ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

I have a Pentium-G4400 3.3Ghz CPU, with 8GB RAM, Intel Graphics 510.

Hummm... Not exactly a powerful GPU.

My guessing need some "refactoring". I was thinking a "too much" powerful GPU would be stomping the CPU's toes by doing things faster than the CPU can feed it.

On the bright side, I'm using a Intel Graphics too (MacMini 6,2), so it's feasible I can reproduce the thing here too - unless we are facing something DirectX related crisis...

Edited by Lisias
Brute force post merging
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Lisias

Lisias

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Oukey, I managed to fool Murphy and got time to play a bit. :)

I replicated @Commodore_32's installment, copied the settings.cfg file over mine, started KSP and created a new sandbox game, fire it up and gone straight to VAB.

No TLAs. :(

@Commodore_32's machine is beefier than mine, but @GuessingEveryDay's one is a bit near. At least three years newer, but performance are kinda near.

He uses a Intel G4400, while I'm using an i7-3615QM one. Besides my i7 having a slower clock, it can turbo up to 3.3GHz by deviating some cores - but the cores still have hyperthreading, so I expect my CPU being a bit faster than him on  multitasking - but not on raw power on a single thread. He have better bus speeds, so the overall performance should not be too much different on KSP.

His graphics card is a Intel HD 510, while mine is an HD 4000. Surprisingly, my GPU is sensibly faster than him besides pretty older- so the test looked promising! More or less what I was guessing - a faster GPU choking up the CPU.

But... No TLAs on VAB neither SPH.

(sigh)

Commodore_32' said the TLA is happening too when using OpenGL, that it's my only option on MacOS - so we already had ruled out this one.

So the difference must be on the GPU, and so I started digging specs.

My GPU, due it's age, still use OpenGL 4.0 and, on Windows, DirectX 11.1

GuessingEveryDay's GPU, on the other hand, uses OpenGL 4.6 and DirectX 12!

Hummm..

Commodore_32's GPU is an Radeon R4 mobile, more similar to mine than to GuessingEveryDay's GPU on raw power. BUT... It also uses OpenGL 4.6 or DirectX 12!

So the guess has teeth, I may be right on it.

So I reread this thread looking for hints, and realized something: I don't have sparks on VAB/SPH's lights when the lights flicker! It's a new guess - as always, an educated one , but still a guess: I'm not getting problems on Particles because my GPU handles particles on DirectX 11/OpenGL 4.0.

If I'm right, there's something on DirectX12/OpenGL 4.6 that's triggering the problem on Unity.

So I dug a bit more, and remembered that KSP uses Unity 2019.2.2f1 since 1.8 (if they updated to a new version, it's not mentioned on the Version History). And digging yet a bit more, I found this entry on the 2019.3.0f6 Release Notes :

Quote

Particles: Fixed crash when using ParticleSystem.SetParticles and system uses a Size module. (1197761)
Fixed in 2019.3.0f6.

And on 2019.3.0b8:

Quote

Particles: Fixed crash when destroying a culled Particle System that has a Stop Action. (1206498)
This is a change to a 2019.3.0b8 change, not seen in any released version, and will not be mentioned in final notes.

Both releases newer than the one KSP uses.

Of course I'm not absolutely sure about any of that, but it fits. So, and assuming I'm right, the only real fix is to update Unity 2019 to at least 3.0f6.

What we need to do now is find a work around for this problem. I have a hunch that KSP is getting some heat due that Stop Action thingy, it appears to fit it crashing on VAB/SPH, as light's sparking appears to allow culling.

So... new test: Start KSP forcing d3d11 with -force-d3d11 . Or even -force-d3d9.

 

 

 

Edited by Lisias
Tyops, as usulla...
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TranceaddicT

TranceaddicT

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12 hours ago, Lisias said:

Oukey, I managed to fool Murphy and got time to play a bit. :)

I replicated @Commodore_32's installment, copied the settings.cfg file over mine, started KSP and created a new sandbox game, fire it up and gone straight to VAB.

No TLAs. :(

@Commodore_32's machine is beefier than mine, but @GuessingEveryDay's one is a bit near. At least three years newer, but performance are kinda near.

He uses a Intel G4400, while I'm using an i7-3615QM one. Besides my i7 having a slower clock, it can turbo up to 3.3GHz by deviating some cores - but the cores still have hyperthreading, so I expect my CPU being a bit faster than him on  multitasking - but not on raw power on a single thread. He have better bus speeds, so the overall performance should not be too much different on KSP.

His graphics card is a Intel HD 510, while mine is an HD 4000. Surprisingly, my GPU is sensibly faster than him besides pretty older- so the test looked promising! More or less what I was guessing - a faster GPU choking up the CPU.

But... No TLAs on VAB neither SPH.

(sigh)

Commodore_32' said the TLA is happening too when using OpenGL, that it's my only option on MacOS - so we already had ruled out this one.

So the difference must be on the GPU, and so I started digging specs.

My GPU, due it's age, still use OpenGL 4.0 and, on Windows, DirectX 11.1

GuessingEveryDay's GPU, on the other hand, uses OpenGL 4.6 and DirectX 12!

Hummm..

Commodore_32's GPU is an Radeon R4 mobile, more similar to mine than to GuessingEveryDay's GPU on raw power. BUT... It also uses OpenGL 4.6 or DirectX 12!

So the guess has teeth, I may be right on it.

So I reread this thread looking for hints, and realized something: I don't have sparks on VAB/SPH's lights when the lights flicker! It's a new guess - as always, an educated one , but still a guess: I'm not getting problems on Particles because my GPU handles particles on DirectX 11/OpenGL 4.0.

If I'm right, there's something on DirectX12/OpenGL 4.6 that's triggering the problem on Unity.

So I dug a bit more, and remembered that KSP uses Unity 2019.2.2f1 since 1.8 (if they updated to a new version, it's not mentioned on the Version History). And digging yet a bit more, I found this entry on the 2019.3.0f6 Release Notes :

And on 2019.3.0b8:

Both releases newer than the one KSP uses.

Of course I'm not absolutely sure about any of that, but it fits. So, and assuming I'm right, the only real fix is to update Unity 2019 to at least 3.0f6.

What we need to do now is find a work around for this problem. I have a hunch that KSP is getting some heat due that Stop Action thingy, it appears to fit it crashing on VAB/SPH, as light's sparking appears to allow culling.

So... new test: Start KSP forcing d3d11 with -force-d3d11 . Or even -force-d3d9.

 

 

 

Top notch detective work there, Holmes.

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Lisias

Lisias

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5 hours ago, Commodore_32 said:

Hey @Lisias

I forced d3-d11 and got a TLA, not directly into the VAB tho, I just got a 1.8m command poad and a docking port, but of course a TLA appeared, when looking at these lamps:

So, yeah, you are right about the Particles on the lamps being the trigger.

However, I was wrong about a using an older D3D being a possible workaround.

I tried to download the logs for inspection, however... :/

LKj8Cnh.png

I will try again tomorrow.

In a way or another, I think we will need to use Harmony to deactivate the Lamp's flickering. Don't know how it will cope with Forum rules about reverse engineering however...

 

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Commodore_32

Commodore_32

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8 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I will try again tomorrow.

Here is another link for the same logs: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtUgGSbBKMe8i0X57FiSAZzKRlxb?e=CCgZGz

Surprisingly, I installed some heavy mods (RSS, RO, etc) and in the VAB got no TLAs (?)

So I was thinking about the graphic-enhacing mods, that I also installed, so I will test with EVE and Scatterer only and see what happens.

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