Private Division's New Development Studio

[Bej Kerman]

On 2/20/2020 at 9:37 AM, MechBFP said:

Well this certainly explains the information void. Glad to see things didn’t go completely belly up, as sometimes happens.

Why would you assume the worst in the first place? 5 seconds of silence and the world's ending.

On 3/4/2020 at 12:52 PM, sgt_flyer said:

For a more down to earth application, you can check the animation on Wikipedia's page - the brachristochrone trajectory is longer than the straight line, but is quicker

Come again, how is doing a giant space drift through the interstellar void faster than going there in a straight line?

[~ snip ~]

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Starhawk
Redacted by moderator

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Come again, how is doing a giant space drift through the interstellar void faster than going there in a straight line?

The real curve isn't as pronounced as the wiki examples. As far as I understood, you basically try to fly in a straight line, but you also don't fight the gravity that's trying to curve your trajectory, making the straight line not actually straight. Of course, I'm not sure "brachistochrone" is the right term here, or if it's a longstanding myth of a sort that we should fight. I suspect it isn't, but we won't know how the trajectory looks like till KSP2 comes out and we can try it.

[Lisias]

On 2/22/2020 at 2:40 AM, mattinoz said:

Ummm... What does "we also now have full direct access to the assets of KSP1" mean?

Copyrights. Private Division directly manages all the KSP1 Intellectual Properties, from textures to source code.

Being directly under Private Division grants them direct access to all KSP1 resources, perhaps to the very source code repository without hassle (as having to secure legally rights to access them).

It's more a tactical move than a strategical one. Things will happen faster now, I bet.

[mattinoz]

[~ snip ~]

@Lisias has I think has answered the question well. Although it does seem odd you'd set up a contract to make a sequel and not give legal access to original. It's like making Empire but not allowing Luke. Leia and Anakin to be in it.  Still good if it's fixed now.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Starhawk
Redacted by moderator

[Incarnation of Chaos]

16 hours ago, mattinoz said:

[~ snip ~]

@Lisias has I think has answered the question well. Although it does seem odd you'd set up a contract to make a sequel and not give legal access to original. It's like making Empire but not allowing Luke. Leia and Anakin to be in it.  Still good if it's fixed now.

It doesn't cross my mind as that odd; especially if the original game didn't actually own all of it's assets and there were licensing issues with obtaining them for the sequel. Sometimes it's better to just start fresh than wait for lawyers to hash it out; or use placeholders while said lawyers hash it out.

Regardless; it's good to know KSP2's devs don't have that to worry about currently.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Starhawk
Redacted by moderator

[Starhawk]

An entire spur line of derailment has been trimmed from the content in this thread.

Do please try to stay within the SOI of the topic at hand.

Thank you for your understanding,
KSP Moderation Team

[VITAS]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/kerbal-space-program-2-release-disrupted-by-corporate-strife

Can we get a comment on this article?

[Snark]

21 minutes ago, VITAS said:

Can we get a comment on this article?

 Given the contentious nature of the material in the article, I wouldn't expect most businesses in such a position to be publicly commenting on it.  So I wouldn't be surprised if no comment is forthcoming, though of course would love to hear anything.

I note that there's already a dedicated thread that someone posted about the Bloomberg article, for anyone who cares to discuss it:

 

[VITAS]

Yes just noticed that one.
 

[Tw1]

Useful of them to have access to the assets. I still hope they make use of the classic, at release versions of parts, not the blander remodeled versions though.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Tw1

[Darth Lazarus]

i'm very confused now: who is developing KSP 2 now? where will it be published? o.o what teh heck is going on ...

[nascarlaser1]

2 hours ago, Darth Lazarus said:

i'm very confused now: who is developing KSP 2 now? where will it be published? o.o what teh heck is going on ...

Take two has created a new studio, who is developing KSP 2. A bunch of the devs from the old studio,are now working for the new one. Where will it be published? No clue,but I'm assuming on the KSP website like the original.
more info can be found here:

 

[Guest]

Can someone from Private Division at least confirm that this image is still valid:

[James M]

9 hours ago, VITAS said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/kerbal-space-program-2-release-disrupted-by-corporate-strife

Can we get a comment on this article?

You want my comment? After KSP 2, I'll never purchase another Take-Two game. Period. What they did to Star Theory is flat out greedy and underhanded. I mean I can't really say I'm all that surprised at this point. This is exactly the type of thing I'd expect a gaming franchise to do. Regardless, the point is, to drop that ball on the developers in Star Theory (Through unprofessional means no less) and then have the audacity to turn around and ask them to return but under their thumb, is probably the most heinous thing I've heard of so far. Don't get me wrong! The "Surprise mechanics" scandal from EA threw me for a loop! But at least that was just dirty business. Who doesn't try to take advantage of loopholes? But this!? THIS?! WOOOWWW. Straight up abuse of financial power and blatant disrespect for fellow gaming enthusiasts/developers. I can't even with video game publishing companies these days. Take two, EA, Bethesda, Blizzard, Ubisoft... Like I'm getting to that point where I just want to say "F*** em".

[bitzoid]

14 hours ago, James M said:

Take two, EA, Bethesda, Blizzard, Ubisoft... Like I'm getting to that point where I just want to say "F*** em".

One simply has to acknowledge the accomplishment of surpassing EA in ugliness. That is no small feat. Well done, Take Two, well done.

[Lisias]

On 6/3/2020 at 7:56 PM, James M said:

What they did to Star Theory is flat out greedy and underhanded. I mean I can't really say I'm all that surprised at this point. This is exactly the type of thing I'd expect a gaming franchise to do. 

We don't know (and probably never will) the whole history. Small companies aren't saints neither, loopholes are exploited by both sides.

I know of histories of small companies trying to milk the bigger one's customers "from outside", creating "opportunities" on the development to allow choosen third parties to explore them financially - of course, in exchange of a bit of the revenue.

I'm not telling you what I think it happened, I'm telling you things I know it happens. And when things like this are detected, the big company usually answers the worst way it's possible to show its others partners what happens to whom does that. Deterrent.

On the other hand, stunts like what Konami did to Kojima are way from being exceptions. 

And, unfortunately, it's not something that happens only on the videogame industry. There're a lot of horror histories to be told on most big companies that do software (directly or indirectly). The mobile industry from the early 2000 was... Interesting.

 

On 6/3/2020 at 7:56 PM, James M said:

Regardless, the point is, to drop that ball on the developers in Star Theory (Through unprofessional means no less) and then have the audacity to turn around and ask them to return but under their thumb, is probably the most heinous thing I've heard of so far. 

There's two different things here.

What they did on management level was forcing a heavy hand over the company. Far from being nice, but we need more information before being absolutely sure it was an pure evil move. Statistically, it should be however.

About hiring the team... Let me tell you something. Do you remember that comment of mine, above, about the mobile industry? Been there, lived that.

There was a small pool of big tech companies on the city I used to live, and they had an agreement on not hiring each others employees. The aftermath? I spend almost 10 years of my life underpaid (about 60% of the usual wage where I live now).

Do you want your employees to stay? Give them reasons to do not want to leave.

Software developers are not properties, they do not belong to the company. If someone with deep pockets are willing to pay more for the job, the developers should be free to take it if they wish so. It's their lives.

 

On 6/3/2020 at 7:56 PM, James M said:

 But this!? THIS?! WOOOWWW. Straight up abuse of financial power and blatant disrespect for fellow gaming enthusiasts/developers

I think that things gone way worse than intended due COVID19. What happened to Star.Theory was harsh, but yet survivable - they had good chances on the Industry, what happened to them is far from being uncommon - everywhere, not only on video game.

But nobody foresaw COVID19 happening just a couple months ahead.

Again, what T2 did was harsh and possibly uncalled for, but the aftermath probably got out of control due COVID19.

 

On 6/3/2020 at 7:56 PM, James M said:

Take two, EA, Bethesda, Blizzard, Ubisoft... Like I'm getting to that point where I just want to say "F*** em".

Sony, Universal Pictures, Siemens, Visteon, Ford, Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, Commodore, Microsoft, Google, et all.

It's this way everywhere.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Lisias
Tyops, tyops, tyops everywehre!!

[MechBFP]

Here is a question for people: Would it have been more ethical to pull the contract and wait for ST to go bankrupt and THEN offer the devs jobs instead?

If a company can’t survive 1 single lost contract is that really the fault of T2? 
If that single contract was so important to their survival then why would ST signed it with the terms that apparently would allow them to get screwed?

No one forced ST to sign a contract, no one forced them to work on KSP2. It seems like they signed a contract that they could not complete and unfortunately paid for it dearly. Ya that sucks, but they aren’t blameless in the situation that unfolded either. 

[Alexoff]

8 hours ago, MechBFP said:

Here is a question for people: Would it have been more ethical to pull the contract and wait for ST to go bankrupt and THEN offer the devs jobs instead?

If a company can’t survive 1 single lost contract is that really the fault of T2? 
If that single contract was so important to their survival then why would ST signed it with the terms that apparently would allow them to get screwed?

No one forced ST to sign a contract, no one forced them to work on KSP2. It seems like they signed a contract that they could not complete and unfortunately paid for it dearly. Ya that sucks, but they aren’t blameless in the situation that unfolded either. 

If they couldn’t do the work, then why did the publisher hire the same developers? And in this case, when do we wait for the game, if they really could not cope with the task? Two years more?

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, Alexoff said:

If they couldn’t do the work, then why did the publisher hire the same developers? And in this case, when do we wait for the game, if they really could not cope with the task? Two years more?

Because T2 think they can do the job under their management. It's how Corporations fire bosses without having to pay contractual termination.

Dude, what a soap opera we have here...

[Kerbart]

2 hours ago, Alexoff said:

If they couldn’t do the work, then why did the publisher hire the same developers? And in this case, when do we wait for the game, if they really could not cope with the task? Two years more?

You're hitting the nail on the head but not in the way you think you are.

Yes, there are a lot of unanswered questions and therein lies the problem.We don't know. All we have is one article written by an investigative journalist who landed a (freelance?) job at the well-respected Bloomberg site. Despite what we've been told in school, the press is not as unbiased and neutral as we like to think it is. If it printed it must be true, right? Developer Studio underperforms severly; publishing company tries to salvage project by buying out key staff doesn't half half as nice a ring as Big Bad Corporation Drives Brave Indie Studio Into Bankruptcy With Cut-Throat Action. And while I can't find any proof of the former, to be honest there's very little proof of the latter as well. We see the result of what happened, not why it happened. And what I read in the article makes me pause. The unprecedented action of contacting staff through LinkedIn? Contacting people through LinkedIn for a job offer? Who does that?! (sarcasm). It's pretty much why Linked In exists.

• From the article we learn there was a conflict between T2 and SD
• From the article we learn that T2 reacted, ehm... extreme. I doubt it was about what colors the doors to the bathroom should be.
• T2 hires key developers - whatever the source of the conflict was, it was obviously not over how the game should look like or work

What I see is that something serious went on, but that T2 wants to publish the game in the spirit of how it was originally intended. Call me optimistic, naive - but why else hire the same people.
As to the reason for said events? Evil money hungry corporation? (Why buy KSP in the first place?) Something else? we simply don't know.

 

[James M]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

The unprecedented action of contacting staff through LinkedIn? Contacting people through LinkedIn for a job offer? Who does that?! (sarcasm). It's pretty much why Linked In exists.

 

Didn't T2 cancel the project through linkedin and then offered to hire them back? I don't believe linkedin's purpose was to be used as a way for publishing studios to contact developers and tell them their contract is canceled and they're being defunded. 

That's what meetings were made for. (And December 6 was before the COVID thing so yes, meetings still existed then.)

Edited June 5, 2020 by James M

[Superfluous J]

11 minutes ago, James M said:

Didn't T2 cancel the project through linkedin and then offered to hire them back?

Not according to the Bloomberg article. Which I'm taking with a grain of salt but seeing as it's the only info we have may as well accept it until we hear otherwise. Also, Linkedin isn't a project or company management site. It's a headhunter's dream I mean it's how you find a new job I'm sorry what's with all these typos it's a business-oriented social network.

For reference, every sentence with "Linkedin" in it:

"One Friday evening last December, employees of game designer Star Theory Games each received the same unusual recruitment message over LinkedIn."
"The LinkedIn message went on to say Take-Two was setting up a new studio to keep working on the same game Star Theory had been developing, a sequel to the cult classic Kerbal Space Program."
"All seemed well, said the people who worked on the game, until Dec. 6, when the project was pulled and the LinkedIn messages went out."
 

[James M]

16 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

Not according to the Bloomberg article. Which I'm taking with a grain of salt but seeing as it's the only info we have may as well accept it until we hear otherwise. Also, Linkedin isn't a project or company management site. It's a headhunter's dream I mean it's how you find a new job I'm sorry what's with all these typos it's a business-oriented social network.

For reference, every sentence with "Linkedin" in it:

"One Friday evening last December, employees of game designer Star Theory Games each received the same unusual recruitment message over LinkedIn."
"The LinkedIn message went on to say Take-Two was setting up a new studio to keep working on the same game Star Theory had been developing, a sequel to the cult classic Kerbal Space Program."
"All seemed well, said the people who worked on the game, until Dec. 6, when the project was pulled and the LinkedIn messages went out."
 

"When the project was pulled and the Linkedin messages went out." Unless I'm misinterpreting what I'm reading, that implies both happened simultaneously. 

[Chel]

Well all I can say is.. rip Star Theory.

[Rejected Spawn]

I really don't want to add fuel to a fire that is not proven to be warranted but there is just one thing that strikes me as very "big publisher up to no good" in the whole story we have so far: T2 has not made an official statement explaining all of this. Not saying all the blame lies with T2; not saying it's all on the former Star Theory; not even saying it's both. What I AM saying though is that even after something like this the former ST employees are likely still bound by law not to disclose exactly what happened, the only entity that has full legal rights to shout from the rooftops what happened in unfiltered language and great detail would be T2 and they've kept completely quiet about every last thing they possibly could.

Silence from someone allowed to speak up does not equal automatic guilt but hoo boyy does it ever happen A LOT when it comes to publishers doing something fishy to game studios... Given that the only ones that can publicly defend themselves and explain everything are under substantial fire but still not saying anything I find it very difficult to believe they haven't done something really nasty in one form or another, at the very least I find it absurdly unlikely that the folks at Star Theory were in the wrong to an extent greater than what was done to them.