Bloomberg insight article into studio transition from Star Theory to Intercept Games

[ShakeNBake]

38 minutes ago, Numberyellow said:

It's an interesting way of looking at things.... but i don't agree. See, i don't buy the whole "corporate personhood" thing..

Individuals can be sociopaths, companies cannot, because companies aren't alive. I believe corporate boards are made up almost exclusively of sociopaths. It's almost like it's a prerequisite for being on a corporate board.

#hardpillstoswallow

[Numberyellow]

4 minutes ago, ShakeNBake said:

#hardpillstoswallow

Come again? I don't follow.

[ShakeNBake]

The unfortunate reality that every attempt to fight a ‘big corporation’ is not just impossible, it’s practically not a meaningful concept. The damage is being done by the sociopaths that run things and even destroying their buildings won’t really affect them. Destroy their company and they will move 3 doors down the hall to the next company. Nothing else will change.

[bitzoid]

3 hours ago, ShakeNBake said:

The unfortunate reality that every attempt to fight a ‘big corporation’ is not just impossible, it’s practically not a meaningful concept. The damage is being done by the sociopaths that run things and even destroying their buildings won’t really affect them. Destroy their company and they will move 3 doors down the hall to the next company. Nothing else will change.

In theory I agree, but not in principle (if that makes any sense to you).

My way of looking at these things is that despite the fact that big scary evil X cannot be changed by my actions alone, I don't have to participate. Too many times (as evidenced here in the forums), people adopt the attitude: "Oh well, there's nothing you can do, that's just the way things are, might as well just go with it." But this is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Just because we cannot be perfect, it doesn't mean we cannot try to better.

[Lisias]

5 hours ago, Numberyellow said:

It's an interesting way of looking at things.... but i don't agree. See, i don't buy the whole "corporate personhood" thing..

Individuals can be sociopaths, companies cannot, because companies aren't alive. I believe corporate boards are made up almost exclusively of sociopaths. It's almost like it's a prerequisite for being on a corporate board.

Duck typing. "If it walks as a sociopath, and talks as a sociopath, it should be a sociopath".

An association of people cannot be more trustworthy than the least trustworthy of them - essentially, it's why good managers don't work for bad managers (as said by @K^2 above). A manager can replace untrustworthy people below him/her on the hierarchy, but can do little to who is above him/her - usually the price the guy/gal pays doesn't worths the wage. (been there, done that - never more).

So, when dealing with Companies, it's wiser to handle them as they were, indeed, sociopaths - besides the people you are dealing are probably not. Such guys will eventually leave the company, and God knows who will be put in their places.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Lisias
Eternal typos of the Englishless Mind

[boolybooly]

Corporations are the new manifestation of tribal instincts, relatively speaking, corporate conflict is very civil, considering war and organised crime. The way anyone fights companies is with the law and if the law is unjust then you lobby to change the law until it is just, which is a WIP. The law allows what Private Division decided to do.

I feel sorry though for the devs caught in between having to decide between their loyalty to their bosses of years and the game KSP2 and its legal owner. I feel very sorry for those who stuck with Star Theory only for it to be dissolved, that really sucks but I am grateful for those who moved and are ready and willing to carry on developing the game.

I know some feel what PD did was unnecessarily aggressive. I think what troubles some gamers is the idea of financial priorities making the decisions behind games development, which inevitably has an impact on gameplay and usually ends up with the tail trying to wag the dog one way or another and microtransactions are just a kind of lightening rod for this distrust but not the only way things can go wrong. The market is the dog but some marketers will try to tell you what to like and gamers rightly wont be told, they will decide for themselves.

 

 

 

[Numberyellow]

11 hours ago, ShakeNBake said:

The unfortunate reality that every attempt to fight a ‘big corporation’ is not just impossible, it’s practically not a meaningful concept. The damage is being done by the sociopaths that run things and even destroying their buildings won’t really affect them. Destroy their company and they will move 3 doors down the hall to the next company. Nothing else will change.

It's not always about "sticking it to the man", or taking down the evil corporation... sometimes it's just about making decisions you can live with.

7 hours ago, bitzoid said:

In theory I agree, but not in principle (if that makes any sense to you).

My way of looking at these things is that despite the fact that big scary evil X cannot be changed by my actions alone, I don't have to participate. Too many times (as evidenced here in the forums), people adopt the attitude: "Oh well, there's nothing you can do, that's just the way things are, might as well just go with it." But this is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Just because we cannot be perfect, it doesn't mean we cannot try to better.

exactly. I was saying this earlier, corporations depend on people having no principles or conviction....they depend on weak wills, and collective apathy. They do scummy things, and know it's not gonna hurt them most of the time, because of those aforementioned factors.

[saxappeal89129]

So... I heard about the corporate politics going on behind the scenes with KSPII, and I'm so disappointed that publishers and developers are at such odds, so much so that an inferior product is inevitable. Have we become such an entitled, overly political, and money grubbing society that we can't accept moderate financial gains... we have to try to fleece customers and constituents to the point of obscenity. It wouldn't surprise me if this post is moderated, but seriously, I think this topic deserves some discussion.

-Disappointed KSP fan since beta of the original.

[Vanamonde]

It hasn't been moderated, @saxappeal89129, but it has been merged into the master thread for this discussion. 

Welcome to the forum.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, saxappeal89129 said:

so much so that an inferior product is inevitable

I would argue that an internal studio solely dedicated to KSP it's a better option for the kind of extended support we expect for KSP2, regardless on how we get there.

KSP it's not the kind of IP that's suitable for an easy money-grab, as you can easily see the community is overly paranoid with microtransactions, DLCs, forced multiplayer and lack of moddability and the game doesn't have much space (har har) for those practices anyway.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Guest

[RYU AZUKU99]

On 6/3/2020 at 7:31 AM, GluttonyReaper said:

After reading that, I honestly don't think I'd be comfortable buying KSP2 at all anymore. I'd somewhat hoped (clearly naively) that it'd be spared from T2's unethical practices by being contracted out to an independant studio, but apparently I was wrong.

I felt the exact same way about it. Probably won't be getting the game now 

[mattinoz]

On 6/11/2020 at 9:25 AM, saxappeal89129 said:

So... I heard about the corporate politics going on behind the scenes with KSPII, and I'm so disappointed that publishers and developers are at such odds, so much so that an inferior product is inevitable. Have we become such an entitled, overly political, and money grubbing society that we can't accept moderate financial gains... we have to try to fleece customers and constituents to the point of obscenity. It wouldn't surprise me if this post is moderated, but seriously, I think this topic deserves some discussion.

-Disappointed KSP fan since beta of the original.

Source is Bloomberg they are known to write misleading, poorly researched and outright made up articles. For what reason I don't know. I just know take them with a grain of salt.

[m4v]

On 6/19/2020 at 1:45 AM, mattinoz said:

Source is Bloomberg they are known to write misleading, poorly researched and outright made up articles. For what reason I don't know. I just know take them with a grain of salt.

 

On 6/3/2020 at 10:58 PM, m4v said:

It was written by Jason Schreier, the same guy that got the news about what went wrong with Anthem . Like the only guy I know that does real journalism about games, I think that the chances of Schreier making stuff up and TakeTwo behaving in good faith are like... nil.

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, m4v said:

It was written by Jason Schreier, the same guy that got the news about what went wrong with Anthem . Like the only guy I know that does real journalism about games, I think that the chances of Schreier making stuff up and TakeTwo behaving in good faith are like... nil.

Even with the bias in Schreier's article there are big blanks that need to be filled with ulterior bias to reach the conclusion that nothing has happend it's just T2 risking the whole project for the sake of being evil.

From the facts themselves we know that something breached the contract (T2 can't just cancel it, no one would accept such a contract as their only long term project), from the article we discover that S.T founders were trying to sell the whole studio and were asking for more time and from Shadowzone's video we know that the people invited at S.T studio  last August (6-7 months from the release date after 3 years of development) only saw a far from finished game.

I think there is not enough information to reach any conclusion and that even if the certainly deserved bias we all have against T2 makes us want to jump to conclusion, the facts suggest that probably the story reported by Schreier is not the full one.

[Numberyellow]

On 6/20/2020 at 2:22 PM, m4v said:

 

 

My problem with Schreier is that firstly, he's from Kotaku.....that's a whole issue unto itself.

Secondly, the function of a journalist is to investigate a subject, and report the facts, and nothing else. Objectivity is essential to that function. Schreier thinks objectivity is not only impossible, but is "silly" to even attempt. His reporting is frequently contaminated with unsolicited opinions (editorializing), and speculation. He avoids questions when asked, deflects attention away from his own misconduct, by engaging in "what-about-ism", and wraps himself in this air of aloof superiority, and smarmy, self-importance, acting as if he's above all of us, and is immune to scrutiny. I don't trust him to report facts, objectively, with no spin.. the only reason i give any credence to anything in his article, is because of the fact that he's quoting people who were actually there, and because the behavior described in the article, is in line with the kind of behavior Take-Two has engaged in previously.

For anyone thinking i'm just dumping on Schreier, because he was with Kokatu, i do give him credit, where it's due.... He was pretty much the ONLY one reporting on the happenings at bungie during it's activision partnership, and the trouble with Destiny.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Numberyellow

[Gavin786]

On 6/3/2020 at 2:00 PM, RockyTV said:

This is just sad. And a terrible move by Take2. If T2 wasn't already being criticized for its past behavior (for example, banning singleplayer mods on GTA V, taking legal action against modders from OpenIV and FiveM), they will certainly be criticized now. They pulled funding for an indie studio because they didn't agree with the buyout terms, then poached the majority of its team.

My hopes for KSP2 were high, seeing the developers contacting scientists and asking about science was great and looked like KSP2 was going to be amazing. But now it's just sort of gone. I wouldn't be surprised if the game becomes an Epic Games exclusive, with little to no modding support and no Linux and macOS support, all that behind an anti-cheat that doesn't work on anything but Windows.


Thanks for killing a dream, Take 2.

Corporate people cant understand this, but good things cant really come from bad energy like that.  A bad seed cant sprout a good tree.  All that bad feeling there, and terrible behaviour.  IF it is true, and of course we are hearing one side of this only.  My gut tells me that Star Theory is the victim here, largely innocent, though that is an opinion/feeling.

What they dont understand is that Kerbal is a community and a labour of love by a lot of people, not just the devs.  The designs, the energy, the sharing, the modders especially.  And if they are throwing greed and poison into that mix, it will poison it.

Money is more important than ethics for T2, that is clear.  Most corporations these days seem to me like they want to see a boot crushing down on a human face, whether that is in China for anyone who criticizes the CCP or here where anyone falls foul of the SJW outrage brigade.  Foot to the face for everyone.  And I am really horrified about how things are turning out in this world, as an 80s kid, I watched RoboCop and other dystopian movies, and this world is a WORSE one than what we ever imagined.  At least in the world of RoboCop you could still have an opinion.  At least in the world of RoboCop you could see the face of someone who was going to take your life/freedom/livelihood.  At least in the world of RoboCop you were allowed to fight back.  I digress...

I strongly suspect T2 will destroy the franchise by making attempts from the start to monetize the mod system, and put the hard work of modders to work making money for their share holders.  There were already T&C changes last year that basically to use KSP you had to agree that any mod became T2 property.  This is probably not legally enforceable, but truth is no small company or individual can fight and win a court case vs big conglomerate, the stakes are not equal.  If smalltime loses the case, they lose everything, corporate loses it, just washes off them.  Should be some justice and equal stakes in these cases, execs need to lose personally I think.

Anyway, I am really unhappy and quite horrified with what I saw T2 do to Star Theory.  I really fear for KSP2 because of it.  I think it is critical that SQUAD keeps on developing KSP1 and as a community we continue to throw our weight behind SQUAD.

And I really truly hope SQUAD makes at least 1 more paid DLC for KSP1.  I would buy it just to keep the lights on at SQUAD even if it was not that great.  Proper buoyancy model and airships/subs would do the trick for me, $15 DLC and easy enough to make quickly.  Have some cool things under the sea and some cool clouds on Kerbin and other Atmo planets.  Add to that make the outer planets mod stock + make sure some exo seas.  Would be well worth it, and I would love to see it.

Anyway that is my 2 cents, take it or leave it...

Lots of love to the KSP community, build on brothers.

Gavin786

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Gavin786 said:

but good things cant really come from bad energy like that.  A bad seed cant sprout a good tree.  All that bad feeling there, and terrible behaviour.  IF it is true, and of course we are hearing one side of this only.  My gut tells me that Star Theory is the victim here, largely innocent, though that is an opinion/feeling.

I understand your gut feelings and sensations but I was raised with a simple principle: Everybody is innocent until proven guilty, regardless of their past wrongdoing and especially when something out of the ordinary happens.

You can like it or not but Kerbal Space Program 2 is a Private Division project and it is in their interest to make it a successful one, pulling the rug from Star.Theory in that way it's not only unusually brutal (which is the part our bias makes us focus on) but also extremely risky for the project itself, I would argue that it's probably costlier once they finished poaching all the staff with better offers when with a single acquisition they could have kept all the poached staff at the same pay.

You're right on one thing, they only care about money but you know how games makes money? By not sucking, not being 1 and a half years later on the release schedule and not changing studio some weeks before the presumed original release.

 

4 hours ago, Gavin786 said:

Anyway, I am really unhappy and quite horrified with what I saw T2 do to Star Theory.  I really fear for KSP2 because of it.  I think it is critical that SQUAD keeps on developing KSP1 and as a community we continue to throw our weight behind SQUAD.

And I really truly hope SQUAD makes at least 1 more paid DLC for KSP1.  I would buy it just to keep the lights on at SQUAD even if it was not that great.  Proper buoyancy model and airships/subs would do the trick for me, $15 DLC and easy enough to make quickly.  Have some cool things under the sea and some cool clouds on Kerbin and other Atmo planets.  Add to that make the outer planets mod stock + make sure some exo seas.  Would be well worth it, and I would love to see it.

Squad and KSP1 are Private Division property too.

 

 

[SOXBLOX]

18 hours ago, Master39 said:

I understand your gut feelings and sensations but I was raised with a simple principle: Everybody is innocent until proven guilty, regardless of their past wrongdoing and especially when something out of the ordinary happens.

You can like it or not but Kerbal Space Program 2 is a Private Division project and it is in their interest to make it a successful one, pulling the rug from Star.Theory in that way it's not only unusually brutal (which is the part our bias makes us focus on) but also extremely risky for the project itself, I would argue that it's probably costlier once they finished poaching all the staff with better offers when with a single acquisition they could have kept all the poached staff at the same pay.

You're right on one thing, they only care about money but you know how games makes money? By not sucking, not being 1 and a half years later on the release schedule and not changing studio some weeks before the presumed original release.

 

Squad and KSP1 are Private Division property too.

 

 

Yet another logic bomb. Good work, sir!

[Kernel Kraken]

I was doing my twice-daily rewatch of the KSP 2 reveal trailer, and I saw a bunch of people criticizing T2 for killing a studio called "Star Theory". I haven't heard of this, despite still lurking here from time to time. Can anyone explain the situation or provide some links where I can read up on it?

[Caerfinon]

See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Theory_Games

 

[Kernel Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Caerfinon said:

See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Theory_Games

 

Thanks a ton! I never knew they were the Monday Night Combat guys, it's cool to see the same studio doing 2 of my favourite games.

[shdwlrd]

29 minutes ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I was doing my twice-daily rewatch of the KSP 2 reveal trailer, and I saw a bunch of people criticizing T2 for killing a studio called "Star Theory". I haven't heard of this, despite still lurking here from time to time. Can anyone explain the situation or provide some links where I can read up on it?

If the Wikipedia article doesn't satisfy you need to figure out what happened to Star Theory, there are threads on the forums discussing the whole situation. The new studio developing KSP2 is Intercept Games, still under Private Division.

[Vanamonde]

@Kernel Kraken, your question has been merged into the thread where this was discussed when it happened. 

[Mikenike]

On 6/3/2020 at 7:11 AM, Poodmund said:

cult classic Kerbal Space Program

Cult?? Cult?? Look there Mr. Jason, we are not a cult. The people who use the Uzi (Any COD title with it) and the LSAT with target finder(BO2), or the F2000(MW2) are cult-followers. We are devoted fans, not a cult worshiping the game that we love. We love the game, but we aren't cult followers here. If I considered Bloomberg Media as a cult, you would be in absolute outrage.

[adsii1970]

9 hours ago, Mikenike said:

Cult?? Cult?? Look there Mr. Jason, we are not a cult. The people who use the Uzi (Any COD title with it) and the LSAT with target finder(BO2), or the F2000(MW2) are cult-followers. We are devoted fans, not a cult worshiping the game that we love. We love the game, but we aren't cult followers here. If I considered Bloomberg Media as a cult, you would be in absolute outrage.

Calm down. The term "cult classic" is not a slam, in fact, it is a complement to the game's ability to find a niche audience. I've been playing KSP for TWELVE years.* That's a heck of an accomplishment.

There's a whole lot of "cult classic" films out there - which have remained popular long after other movies of their era are long forgotten. Dr. Strangelove, Nosferatu, and others in the early horror genre (The Blob, The Creature from the Black Lagoon, and The Birds) are well-known _cult classics. 

It was not meant to be offensive.

*I made a mistake in my math. See this post for an explanation.