Way to go! Kerbal Space Program 2 is in 7th place on Steam's most wanted game!

[Gargamel]

Congrats, right behind Duke Nukem Forever and Half Life 3.

 

 

[Lewie]

  On 2/18/2021 at 5:35 AM, The Doodling Astronaut said:

The delays in the game have made me feel confident that I won't be regretting pre-ordering it. But that's just me

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Nah, that’s also me.

I always thought pre-ordering games on steam was dumb....why pay money for something that’s virtual??

[Kerminator K-100]

  On 2/17/2021 at 11:52 PM, Souptime said:

which one?

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Its called Subverse, 5 below KSP2

  On 2/18/2021 at 7:47 AM, The Aziz said:

Preorders usually come with bonuses for people who preorder. Now tell me, what could that be in ksp2? Special colors? Exclusive parts? There's no point in selling preorders in the first place for a game of this kind.

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Maybe a kerbal plushie? A fancy DV map? Kerbol system mobile/model? It doesn't need to be an ingame item and I'm sure you could make a physical preorder bonus and people (me included) would happily take it.

Still I see your point. I'm not going to preorder, but I am going to buy as soon as KSP2 is released.

  On 2/18/2021 at 11:56 PM, Gargamel said:

Duke Nukem Forever

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My dad said KSP2 reminded him of DNF after it was delayed to 2022

Edited February 19, 2021 by Kerminator K-100

[K^2]

  On 2/19/2021 at 12:01 AM, Kerminator K-100 said:

My dad said KSP2 reminded him of DNF after it was delayed to 2022

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Being old enough to remember the original announcement and having spent better part of the past decade working at game studios, I have to point out a few crucial differences. DNF was in development hell for over a decade before given to another studio, Gearbox, who promptly finished it. (Read, pretty much made it from scratch.)

KSP2 was basically given to a new studio because it was decided that it's going to be a bigger game than originally envisioned and, presumably, disagreements arising from it. The new studio has then given a new timeline for release. (Yes, with a few false starts along the way, where they tried to salvage original timeline, which was a mistake to even try, IMO.)

I would argue that comparison to DNF is a stretch at best to begin with, but if we were to draw parallels, we have to compare KSP2 now to how DNF was going after it got handed off to Gearbox. And while Gearbox eventually still delivered a rather mediocre game, in that regard, I think KSP2 is in much better hands. At least, Intercept leadership appears to genuinely understand what kind of game KSP is and want to make something that would be fun for its fans.

As for DNF... Well, if you look at the timeline, it's clear that the A team at Gearbox was working on Borderlands 2. Even at larger studio, it's always a problem with two projects. The best talent always gets diverted to the flagship project with anything else getting built by people with less experience, fewer resources, and frequent distractions to put out fires on the main project. Gearbox clearly channeled its early days of porting games cheap to quickly cobble together DNF, and given the amount of effort that went into it, that didn't come out as bad as it could have. But a masterpiece it was never destined to be.

So as much as I understand concerns, there is no real reason to worry about KSP2 at this point. We haven't seen a lot of updates, but ones we have seen show the game that looks to be on track for a 2022 release. Materials are looking sharp. Terrain and atmospherics are taking shape. We have old and new parts for ships and colonies. The big unknowns are the state of physics and multiplayer. But also, I don't expect either to be presentable right now even if they are on track. So the fact that we haven't seen much of either isn't necessarily a warning sign.

[Gargamel]

  On 2/19/2021 at 3:32 AM, K^2 said:

I would argue that comparison to DNF is a stretch at best to begin with

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I perhaps should have pulled a @kerbiloid and put that joke in spoilers.   Given the hype and angst we have here locally over the delays, I figured I’d poke a little fun comparing it to a couple of the most hyped delayed games I can think of.  
 

KSP2 will come out when it comes out and I’m sure we’ll all enjoy it, else most of us wouldn’t be here.  

[Dr. Kerbal]

  On 2/19/2021 at 3:48 AM, Gargamel said:

I perhaps should have pulled a @kerbiloid and put that joke in spoilers.   Given the hype and angst we have here locally over the delays, I figured I’d poke a little fun comparing it to a couple of the most hyped delayed games I can think of.  
 

KSP2 will come out when it comes out and I’m sure we’ll all enjoy it, else most of us wouldn’t be here.  

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But I still plan on buying at moments glance.

[Guest]

  On 2/18/2021 at 11:31 AM, K^2 said:

but if pre-orders drive sales, then marketing is going to make it very difficult for me to spend my time making a good game and not a pretty advertisement for one. 

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Why do we need to have more marketing because of preorders?

[K^2]

  On 2/19/2021 at 5:14 AM, The Doodling Astronaut said:

Why do we need to have more marketing because of preorders?

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You don't necessarily need more of it, but you need it earlier, when the game might not be in its final shape. So when we should be busy finalizing feature set, which is about the most sensitive period in game development, suddenly, marketing needs polished trailers. Which inevitably means that devs end up trying to put polish on something that was quickly stood up just for this marketing stunt instead of working on the actual game. Not only does it result in trailers that are far from representative of final game, but also you lose valuable time. Often features end up having to be dropped or land unpolished/broken because of it. The good outcome is that you end up delaying the game because of that, but you rarely have a delay without a rush and crunch to go along with it, and it's never good for the final product.

[kerbiloid]

  On 2/18/2021 at 11:56 PM, Gargamel said:

right behind Duke Nukem Forever and Half Life 3.

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  Reveal hidden contents

 

[PigeonThePilot]

Karlson and KSP 2 might be competing ig

[Gargamel]

  On 2/19/2021 at 6:29 AM, kerbiloid said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

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Niiiiiiice

[The Aziz]

  On 2/19/2021 at 12:01 AM, Kerminator K-100 said:

Maybe a kerbal plushie? A fancy DV map? Kerbol system mobile/model? It doesn't need to be an ingame item and I'm sure you could make a physical preorder bonus and people (me included) would happily take it.

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Those are exclusive/ultimate/collector's/whatever it's called these days editions. I don't remember a preorder that came with physical item (F76 fiasco with plastic bags was also an exclusive edition, no?). But I guess if you accept the probability of delayed shipping, it's possible.

Now preorders these days usually come with "preload" which means that you can download the game like 24hrs earlier, but still be unable to play it. Which helps only really if you have slow connection because then the game has to unpack, which in some cases can take longer than download lol. But that comes with yet another problem, and boi this is a loud one. DRM. We know how people hate it here  in case of preload there must be something that prevents the game from being started before release, no? That's it.

[Kerminator K-100]

  On 2/19/2021 at 3:32 AM, K^2 said:

<snip>

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TBH he wasn't comparing them together, more of just saying I hope KSP2 doesn't end up like DNF.

[Sesshaku]

  On 2/18/2021 at 12:17 AM, RyanRising said:

Since so many people have it in their Steam Wishlist, this seems like a good place to repeat that old, tired advice. When this game starts accepting preorders, don’t do it. If it’s a good game you can buy it once the reviews confirm that. If it’s a bad game, you won’t have wasted your money on it. 

I suspect the game will turn out alright, but it definitely won’t live up to some of the expectations about it, and if those expectations happen to be a dealbreaker for you you’ll be glad you waited to see. I know some of you will be in that camp. 

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The thing written above me is both true and false.

It is true, because as a general rule, there's absolutely no reason or need to give a company money BEFORE you get the product.

But it's also false, because: third world economics.

Let me give you an exameple. If KSP2 was available for preordering, it would probably have regional pricing (or at least I hope so), just like the original KSP. Now this is important. Because, let's say you get the game at the local currency  equivalent of 15 usd. Now, between the first trailer, and now, my country had:
- More than 60% devaluation
- +20% GDP recession
- More than 70% inflation
- A monthly quota on usd expenses
- Severe increase in taxes and public deficit

That means that for me, preordering the game would be both cheaper and easier than waiting. Because in 2018 AR$2500 were u$d 60. Today u$d 60 cost $9000. And keep in mind, salaries don't grow as fast as inflation+devaluation.


In other words, pre orders are bad for the gamers, but they're also really useful for the poorest of gamers.

[K^2]

  On 2/19/2021 at 4:13 PM, Sesshaku said:

In other words, pre orders are bad for the gamers, but they're also really useful for the poorest of gamers.

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Yeah, if your country's economy is in bad shape, you do what you need to do. In my personal opinion, games should never be a thing you don't get to play because you can't afford to. Obviously, we need support from gamers in form of sales to keep making games, so I would like to see anyone who can afford it to spend money on art forms they enjoy, but I also don't think it should ever be a wall. And yeah, with games, the hardware will always be a barrier to some degree, but at least, as far as games themselves go.

[Meecrob]

  On 2/19/2021 at 4:13 PM, Sesshaku said:

The thing written above me is both true and false.

It is true, because as a general rule, there's absolutely no reason or need to give a company money BEFORE you get the product.

But it's also false, because: third world economics.

Let me give you an exameple. If KSP2 was available for preordering, it would probably have regional pricing (or at least I hope so), just like the original KSP. Now this is important. Because, let's say you get the game at the local currency  equivalent of 15 usd. Now, between the first trailer, and now, my country had:
- More than 60% devaluation
- +20% GDP recession
- More than 70% inflation
- A monthly quota on usd expenses
- Severe increase in taxes and public deficit

That means that for me, preordering the game would be both cheaper and easier than waiting. Because in 2018 AR$2500 were u$d 60. Today u$d 60 cost $9000. And keep in mind, salaries don't grow as fast as inflation+devaluation.


In other words, pre orders are bad for the gamers, but they're also really useful for the poorest of gamers.

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Wow, this is eye-opening. I honestly did not consider this. I wonder if game publishers do? It seems to me an easy way to cut down on piracy by adjusting the price to local economics.

Edited to add: I feel like a jerk now because I said in a different thread that I would (not seriously) pay $1000 dollars for KSP2 assuming it was at least as good as KSP1 based on my dollar to hours of enjoyment ratio. I had no idea people literally had to spend that much just to try it out!

Edited February 20, 2021 by Meecrob

[SOXBLOX]

  On 2/19/2021 at 4:13 PM, Sesshaku said:

-More than 60% devaluation
- +20% GDP recession
- More than 70% inflation
- A monthly quota on usd expenses
- Severe increase in taxes and public deficit

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Ow, ow, ow, ow, and ouch! I hope you stay afloat yourself, man. 

I don't think I'll preorder, but I will buy it within days of release. I expect some dedicated fan will do a 24-consecutive-hour playthrough the instant it comes out.

Edited February 20, 2021 by SOXBLOX

[Souptime]

  On 2/20/2021 at 3:53 AM, SOXBLOX said:

-More than 60% devaluation
- +20% GDP recession
- More than 70% inflation
- A monthly quota on usd expenses
- Severe increase in taxes and public deficit

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thats gonna be an ai chi wawa from me dawg, hope u still money healthy

[The Aziz]

  On 2/20/2021 at 3:53 AM, SOXBLOX said:

I expect some dedicated fan will do a 24-consecutive-hour playthrough the instant it comes out.

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[Guest]

  On 2/18/2021 at 12:17 AM, RyanRising said:

Since so many people have it in their Steam Wishlist, this seems like a good place to repeat that old, tired advice. When this game starts accepting preorders, don’t do it. If it’s a good game you can buy it once the reviews confirm that. If it’s a bad game, you won’t have wasted your money on it. 

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Then let's me give a new tired advice, don't trust reviewers.

With Cyberpunk we've seen reviewers giving a 10 before launch and then the same site giving it a 4 after the outrage, when the game clearly deserves none of those 2 votes.

Buy the game on Steam whenever you want, even preordering if you're interested in the bonuses or (like me) in preloading it, and try it for yourself (blind, avoid any review, positive or negative) and refund it afterwards if it doesn't pass your review, then you can go on reading other people opinions, not before, don't let the mob form your opinions for you, either positively or negatively.

If you ever landed on Mun you're way more competent in reviewing KSP2 than any "professional" reviewer out there.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Master39

[RyanRising]

  On 2/20/2021 at 12:45 PM, Master39 said:

Then let's me give a new tired advice, don't trust reviewers.

With Cyberpunk we've seen reviewers giving a 10 before launch and then the same site giving it a 4 after the outrage, when the game clearly deserves none of those 2 votes.

Buy the game on Steam whenever you want, even preordering if you're interested in the bonuses or (like me) in preloading it, and try it for yourself (blind, avoid any review, positive or negative) and refund it afterwards if it doesn't pass your review, then you can go on reading other people opinions, not before, don't let the mob form your opinions for you, either positively or negatively.

If you ever landed on Mun you're way more competent in reviewing KSP2 than any "professional" reviewer out there.

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Fair point about not trusting reviews, but even then preordering has the issue of encouraging the wrong things in development. It prioritizes visually complete features over mechanically complete ones, stuff you can show off in an ad rather than building solid systems that don't look flashy but perform well. And going into a game blind is right for some people, but being cautious about a release isn't always a bad thing.

  Quote

The thing written above me is both true and false.

It is true, because as a general rule, there's absolutely no reason or need to give a company money BEFORE you get the product.

But it's also false, because: third world economics.

Let me give you an exameple. If KSP2 was available for preordering, it would probably have regional pricing (or at least I hope so), just like the original KSP. Now this is important. Because, let's say you get the game at the local currency  equivalent of 15 usd. Now, between the first trailer, and now, my country had:
- More than 60% devaluation
- +20% GDP recession
- More than 70% inflation
- A monthly quota on usd expenses
- Severe increase in taxes and public deficit

That means that for me, preordering the game would be both cheaper and easier than waiting. Because in 2018 AR$2500 were u$d 60. Today u$d 60 cost $9000. And keep in mind, salaries don't grow as fast as inflation+devaluation.


In other words, pre orders are bad for the gamers, but they're also really useful for the poorest of gamers.

Expand  

Also, thanks for mentioning  this. I had ignored the possible impacts of financial instability on game pricing, and yeah, getting the game for significantly cheaper (or, rather, not prohibitively expensive) can definitely be worth that risk.

Edited February 20, 2021 by RyanRising

[Superfluous J]

  On 2/18/2021 at 11:31 AM, K^2 said:

I'm saying this as someone who makes games. I want to make good games, but if pre-orders drive sales, then marketing is going to make it very difficult for me to spend my time making a good game and not a pretty advertisement for one

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This is the best reason I've ever heard against pre-orders and will likely cause me to never do so again, even though I've never regretted it in the specific instances where I've done it.

...including BTW No Man's Sky.

[Guest]

  On 2/20/2021 at 1:19 PM, RyanRising said:

Fair point about not trusting reviews, but even then preordering has the issue of encouraging the wrong things in development. It prioritizes visually complete features over mechanically complete ones, stuff you can show off in an ad rather than building solid systems that don't look flashy but perform well. And going into a game blind is right for some people, but being cautious about a release isn't always a bad thing.

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On a platform that doesn't allow refunds I would agree with you, but on Steam we have them and they're the best tool to get your "review copy" or demo before buying, especially for particular games like KSP or management  and strategy  games with which the gaming "press" is even less competent than usual.

It's not going in blind, it's going in blind in your review copy.

[SOXBLOX]

  On 2/20/2021 at 2:36 PM, Master39 said:

On a platform that doesn't allow refunds I would agree with you, but on Steam we have them...

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Exactly! You get any bonuses there are, you can check out the game yourself, rather than trusting a "reviewer", and you still have economic power. Didn't like it? Send it back!

[Kernel Kraken]

  On 2/18/2021 at 5:06 AM, RyanRising said:

It pains me to see how many people do that and then complain that what they got doesn't meet their expectations. If the game does meet expectations, great! You'd be happy no matter when you bought it. If it doesn't meet expectations, you'll be better off not having spent that money prematurely. I don't see any advantage to pre-ordering at all. Please reconsider the course of action you're looking to take with the possibility it might not turn out as you want in mind.

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I have not a shred of doubt in my mind that KSP 2 will be a masterpiece to outperform all other space Sims that I will no doubt spend hours and hours on. Knowing all this, I still say the day my honor is gone and I am not to be trusted is the day that I give a company money for a product yet to be delivered or reviewed. If I ever do, I want one of you to shoot me.