Show and Tell - Procedural Radiators

[savagekerbal]

On 3/25/2022 at 1:52 PM, Nate Simpson said:

Seeing this question pop up in a few places. We don't currently have specific plans to add procedural solar panels for release, as solar gameplay wasn't blocked by the absence of a large-scale solution in the way that radiator gameplay was. As you get deeper into the progression, you've got a number of other power generation solutions that don't rely on sunlight (since many of the problems you're solving involve either being very far from a star or being in a situation in which solar intermittency is an obstacle). I'd love to hear the applications you see for big, interestingly-shaped solar panels. 

That's our new VAB music, courtesy of Howard Mostrom. It makes you 28 percent more creative.

Please don’t pass up the opportunity on this. I understand the game wants to gear more for progression and interstellar gameplay but you forget a game has survived and kept a mass amount of players for a decade which just the kerbal system content. Would solar panels be practical for majority of the game? No. But if we’re focusing on realism, chemical combustion powered rockets wouldn’t be practical for majority of the game either. Imo, it wouldn’t be as difficult to create procedural solar panels as radiators seem all but done. Of course there would be deployment parts and textures to add, but I think ignoring procedural solar panels would be ignoring a project already 70% done that would add significant content to the game.

[Guest]

On 3/26/2022 at 1:52 PM, poopslayer78 said:

This is speculative but if you examine the VAB interface there's a button for what could be "radiation effects" next to other buttons for the usual mass/lift/thrust indicators.  I could see this being a life-support related constraint as you mentioned or a building constraint.

Note: screenshots collapsible to reduce clutter, they aren't really spoilers.

Annotated screenshot from procedural radiator show and tell video Mar 24 2022:

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Furthermore, this trefoil button appeared on the VAB GUI a long time ago in 2020.  Shadow Zone did a video on it here:

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Also, here's the link to The Aziz's post mentioned in the video:

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The fact that this button had consistently shown up in the VAB between 2020 and 2022 tells me that it's part of a stable feature that will be present in the final game.

perhaps something like the Kerbalism radiation sickness feature?

[fleventeen]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:52 AM, Nate Simpson said:

Seeing this question pop up in a few places. We don't currently have specific plans to add procedural solar panels for release, as solar gameplay wasn't blocked by the absence of a large-scale solution in the way that radiator gameplay was. As you get deeper into the progression, you've got a number of other power generation solutions that don't rely on sunlight (since many of the problems you're solving involve either being very far from a star or being in a situation in which solar intermittency is an obstacle). I'd love to hear the applications you see for big, interestingly-shaped solar panels. 

I could see an application, for example with stations/large structures that have modules sticking out every which way, you might run into clearance limitations, and having an adjustable panel that "fits just right" would be ideal. This is also true on a smaller scale with things like rovers.

Another application would be a determined player deciding to brute force an outer system mission early on in the game, before they acquire the more advanced tech you mentioned. Sure, it's not efficient, and probably won't work well, but opening up this possibility gives the player a chance to learn why we don't use solar panels in the outer solar system (and why we have to use gigantic solar panels even at places like Jupiter).

Seriously, has anyone seen JUICE? The thing is huge!

85m² huge.

 

[THE_KERBAL]

pretty cool. now we can cool down easier.

[KerikBalm]

19 hours ago, fleventeen said:

Sure, it's not efficient, and probably won't work well, but opening up this possibility gives the player a chance to learn why we don't use solar panels in the outer solar system (and why we have to use gigantic solar panels even at places like Jupiter).

Seriously, has anyone seen JUICE? The thing is huge!

85m² huge.

Iirc, they used solar rather than RTGs because of a limited supply of Pu-238, and the political opposition to launching RTGs.

Solar powered ships shouldn't really be competitive that far out. But throw in a decay mechanic,  and ISRU supporting refilling propellant tanks, but not RTG replacement, and maybe....

As long as we have appropriately giant solar panels for colonies and orbital "colonies"* so that part count doesn't degrade performance, fine...

* Still waiting to hear details on colony building vs ship building: ate they completely separate part sets?  Can you mix and match ship/ colony parts? Can you move colonies with some sort of propulsion system?

 

[fleventeen]

1 hour ago, KerikBalm said:

Iirc, they used solar rather than RTGs because of a limited supply of Pu-238, and the political opposition to launching RTGs.

Solar powered ships shouldn't really be competitive that far out. But throw in a decay mechanic,  and ISRU supporting refilling propellant tanks, but not RTG replacement, and maybe....

I think the plutonium thing is true, but it also highlights my point. I agree that they shouldn't be competitive far out (solar panels could also suffer from degradation, too), but when you are faced with certain limitations (maybe you don't have RTG unlocked yet because you decided to go another way down the tech tree first, or kerbal politics), it is nice to have alternatives, even if they aren't the "best" way to do it, because it gives you more options to tackle the progression.

I am just all for giving players flexibility, and I think if radiators make sense, solar panels probably do too. I also have this (probably irrational) fear that with how much they are focusing on tutorials and onboarding, they might inadvertently put us on rails down a particular path, particularly in early career mode progression, which is something I always disliked about starting new career/science games in KSP 1 (at least the first couple of missions are painful).

[Davi SDF]

7 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

* Still waiting to hear details on colony building vs ship building: ate they completely separate part sets?  Can you mix and match ship/ colony parts? Can you move colonies with some sort of propulsion system?

 

I sure hope colonies can be mobile. Even if it isn't exactly efficient, the idea of making huge mobile colonies like that SHIELD aircraft carrier would be incredible on itself.

[Superfluous J]

Why is this Unlisted on YouTube?

I swear you're TRYING to keep information hard to find.

[The Aziz]

It's been posted here, on facebook, and probably other social media I don't visit, how is it hard to find? Besides, show and tell videos are uploaded as compliations at later date. Or at least they used to be.

[Catto]

@Nate Simpson Please tell us we're getting procedural ladders.

[Vl3d]

Technically the unfolding ladders are procedural but they should stop before clipping into the ground. I'm not sure how the clip-on basic ladders could be made procedural.

[OrdinaryKerman]

47 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Technically the unfolding ladders are procedural but they should stop before clipping into the ground. I'm not sure how the clip-on basic ladders could be made procedural.

KSP1 unfolding ladders aren't procedural, they're just animated models

Edited April 17, 2022 by OrdinaryKerman

[Vl3d]

6 minutes ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

KSP1 unfolding ladders aren't procedural, they're just animated models

I know they are not procedural, but they have the same property of dynamic length as if they were procedural.

[OrdinaryKerman]

37 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

I know they are not procedural, but they have the same property of dynamic length as if they were procedural.

their length is not dynamic, they're fixed length with an extend/retract animation

Edited April 17, 2022 by OrdinaryKerman

[Vl3d]

29 minutes ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

their length is not dynamic, they're fixed length with an extend/retract animation

They clip into the ground but the usable length is dynamic for the kerbals that go down the ladder.

[OrdinaryKerman]

28 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

They clip into the ground but the usable length is dynamic for the kerbals that go down the ladder.

they're not dynamic, it's just that the game doesn't care if a ladder collider clips into the ground or not

[Vl3d]

They're functionally dynamic.

[Bej Kerman]

7 hours ago, Vl3d said:

They're functionally dynamic.

Not when you need a longer ladder.

[Pthigrivi]

I just came across this: Droplet radiators? Dusty plasma radiators whaaaa?

http://toughsf.blogspot.com/2017/07/all-radiators.html

[Superfluous J]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:41 AM, The Aziz said:

It's been posted here, on facebook, and probably other social media I don't visit, how is it hard to find? Besides, show and tell videos are uploaded as compliations at later date. Or at least they used to be.

Here and YouTube are the only places I look for KSP info and their YouTube channel - I thought - was the only place where I would be 100% assured to not miss a video. I guess that's too simple and I need a Facebook account.

[The Aziz]

9 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

Here and YouTube are the only places I look for KSP info and their YouTube channel - I thought - was the only place where I would be 100% assured to not miss a video. I guess that's too simple and I need a Facebook account.

Pretty sure you can view stuff without the need for an account there. Also there's always twitter. It was there too.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Pretty sure you can view stuff without the need for an account there. Also there's always twitter. It was there too.

Twitter has been going down the tubes for years and is not getting any better now.

But anyway, I relent. I didn't look in the approved places so it's my loss I get it.

[Vl3d]

Why don't you just write a DM to the social media manager and ask to set the video as listed on YouTube? I'm sure he just forgot.

[Maria Sirona]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:52 PM, Nate Simpson said:

I'd love to hear the applications you see for big, interestingly-shaped solar panels. 

They look freaking cool

[Axelord FTW]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:09 PM, Pthigrivi said:

I just came across this: Droplet radiators? Dusty plasma radiators whaaaa?

http://toughsf.blogspot.com/2017/07/all-radiators.html

Mass Effect (the one and only game) had a codex entry on large capital ships using liquid-droplet radiators to dump excess heat. Even went as far as describing the sight of a capital ship out-maneuvering its radiators and shedding coolant in combat.
Solid radiator designs are just cheap and easy to implement and effectively requires no upkeep in the radiator surfaces in and of themselves.

I hope KSP2 handles progression of radiators not just in size but also emissivity. I think Nertea's System Heat system (plus his Heat Control parts) does this quite well.