A week in... 10% still playing

[silurian_lobster]

One thing to keep in mind is that this game is in a very early stage. I have held off from buying until most of the features are there and play KSP1 in the meantime when I get the bug. I suspect a lot of people who have bought looked at it and thought the feature shortfall relative to KSP1 is too large at this moment to justify playing it. I for one am planning to buy this once the features are out as I know that currently it's not in a state where I would spend a lot of time playing it.

[Observe]

At this point, I've given up on KSP2 entirely. I'm fine with KSP1 and have resigned myself to the very real possibility that KSP2 development may be terminated  before it reaches parity with KSP1. I can only conjecture the reasons for this debacle.  Perhaps someone will eventually attempt a KSP3, free of the baggage and bad blood between studios associated with KSP2. Alas, as I am and elder, I may not be around by the time that happens. To me, one of the worst effects of KSP2, is that there are some great modders who stopped creating for KSP1, while they waited for KSP2. Hopefully, they will return to and continue supporting the original game.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Observe

[Alexoff]

In 2019, I tried to make a big video on KSP1, but on the one hand, I was sick of the bugs of the game, and on the other, there was an announcement of KSP2. I thought that since it's going to happen so soon, I'll wait for KSP2. Now it's ridiculous and stupid to scold KSP1 for bugs...

[RocketRockington]

10 hours ago, silurian_lobster said:

One thing to keep in mind is that this game is in a very early stage. I have held off from buying until most of the features are there and play KSP1 in the meantime when I get the bug. I suspect a lot of people who have bought looked at it and thought the feature shortfall relative to KSP1 is too large at this moment to justify playing it. I for one am planning to buy this once the features are out as I know that currently it's not in a state where I would spend a lot of time playing it.

We do keep that in mind.  The point of this thread, partially, is that it's not a 'when the game is fully developed' but an 'if'.   

For whatever reason, T2 decided they needed to launch this game when they launched it, despite the state of it.  For $50.  Not a free  closed beta that would have gotten them feedback without so much vitriol, which is their false justification. 

So I think if the game doesn't sell well or keep attention, there's a a good chance it won't ever be finished.  Otherwise why launch it in the current state at all?  And this thread tracks player counts and other metrics to see just how the game is being received, especially after patches.

Edited April 21, 2023 by RocketRockington

[Fletch4]

I actually expected KSP 2 to release as a game with at least a little more content than the base game has now. Base game Ksp 1 And base game Ksp 2 both preform extremely differently( i know this for a fact, i play ksp 1 on a macbook pro and get beautiful fps, i play ksp 2 on the same macbook pro in bootcamp[its ratexcrementse]). Yes, I understand that the development time is drastically different for both games, but think about other EA games. They at least release with a playable game and most of their features. I understand the scope of what ksp2 is trying to accomplish, but i feel like I have been lied to with the videos of gameplay that have been released by the dev team. those videos hyped up the forums, which in turn hyped up the devs, but you have to remember that those gameplay videos were specifically doctored to make the game look better. 

The reason for the release of the game in its current state was pressure from the forums, fueled by doctored gameplay footage that didnt show what the game really was.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Fletch4

[Observe]

1 hour ago, Fletch4 said:

..fueled by doctored gameplay footage that didn't show what the game really was.

Reminds me a bit of the Theranos scandal. Perhaps someday, this kind of behavior in the game industry, will be met with similar condemnation and legal consequences.

[Scarecrow71]

15 hours ago, RocketRockington said:

So I think if the game doesn't sell well or keep attention, there's a a good chance it won't ever be finished.

For the past 2 months, I've been in the "Just wait a while; it will get better; give it a chance to get patched" camp.  After the AMA yesterday, I am ready to put the game down almost permanently.

KSP2 has reminded me of why I don't purchase games in early access.  I've been reminded of why I wait to buy fully finished games, or at least wait for others to purchase and provide solid reviews and then make a decision.  What we were given in early access, even after 2 patches, is nowhere close to what we were promised FOR YEARS.  People can sugar-coat this all they want, but the truth and fact of the matter is that KSP2 is not very good.  And it's a bit scary to think that the people who paid $50 and didn't refund - like myself, for example - are looking at never getting the completed game we paid for.  I am aware that paying the $50 during early access is no guarantee of what we will or won't get.  But there is an expectation of what we are to be getting, coupled with the continued promises from the dev team that the game they are working on is coming along great.  I just wonder when we are going to get what they seem to be playing with on a daily basis that is so awesome.

[Alexoff]

The main question regarding the history of the development of the game: was that game a cheat from T2, or was InterceptGames that cheated T2 with bases and other stuff? Since in the latter case it becomes immediately clear why the studio was closed, the contract was terminated, and KSP2 was allegedly being created anew (in November 2020, we were shown the creation of kerbals, which caused me serious suspicions in the game, and we were also shown only data from the unity editor).

[cocoscacao]

3 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

After the AMA yesterday, I am ready to put the game down almost permanently

Any particular part on why?

[Scarecrow71]

16 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Any particular part on why?

Thought I was pretty clear in the litany of posts I've put out here since then, but the short list is...

• Lack of parts
• Game-breaking bugs
• Performance is still not up to par
• Lack of communication as to when roadmap features are going to be worked on
• Devs appear, through screenshots we've been given, to be playing a version of the game that is nothing like what we have

The most egregious thing that happened in the AMA was Shana stating how proud the team was of the game they've given us.  Made me physically ill to hear that.  She even goes so far as to admit it's not really a game yet.  How can they possibly be proud of something this bad?

[Alexoff]

2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

She even goes so far as to admit it's not really a game yet.  How can they possibly be proud of something this bad?

Since 2020-21, I have begun to get the feeling that the developers are probing the boundaries of what is acceptable. So, the game was postponed to 2022, the fans were a little upset, so, the video where Nate talks about the game for 20 minutes, but shows almost nothing. Well, everyone is happy. So, now we are showing a video of how we are still drawing kerbals, although it seems that we should polish the game. Everyone is happy. We go further, now we show only pictures and very short videos from the editor. Nobody noticed. Almost. What if we show a video with bad fps? Well, a couple of people grumble, the rest are happy. And another delay? What about early access with a roadmap? What about system requirements? Oh, the fans started grumbling more actively. How do you like the list of features that were still in KSP1, but which will not be in early access? There doesn't seem to be much outrage. And how do you like the release of early access, are there a lot of bugs? Oh, it seems that the fans have begun to suspect something, but the reviews are mixed, it seems that the bottom is still far away! What do you think about if the developers are silent for a week after the release? And how do you like a month without bug fixes? And we also decided to start reworking the planetary surface system, because before we didn’t have time for this, but now it’s important to start doing it! And we are very proud of our game! Seriously, are the developers doing this on purpose? Maybe it's some kind of psychological experiment?

[thewhitemetroid]

38 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Maybe it's some kind of psychological experiment?

Hmmm, Kerbal MKUltra anyone? Maybe it's a feature! 

[The Aziz]

Yeah they should totally blush with shame, put the tail between their legs and never again show themselves to the public.

Jfc, everyone is blabbering about happy and proud and literally nobody acknowledges the part about healthy mindset required for steady further development (which was also parts of the same answer).

The have to be bloody positive otherwise the motivation to work on the project is gone and that leads to what the doomsayers "predict".

[Meecrob]

11 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

'The most egregious thing that happened in the AMA was Shana stating how proud the team was of the game they've given us.

Exactly. This game sucks right now.

To whoever did that AMA, you seriously showed your ability to stick your head in the sand, but not make a game.

I mean "whoever" because Shana didn't just stream-of-thought those answers, I'm guessing

Edited April 22, 2023 by Meecrob

[Alexoff]

2 hours ago, The Aziz said:

The have to be bloody positive otherwise the motivation to work on the project is gone and that leads to what the doomsayers "predict".

I think they should show the fans that they have realized their mistakes and are trying to correct them right now. Sending signals that the quality of the game today is decent is also sending signals that the quality of the game and its features will continue to be the same. Smiling in a disaster and pretending nothing terrible happened is a bad strategy.

[cocoscacao]

13 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Thought I was pretty clear in the litany of posts I've put out

Yeah, but I wasn't very active these days, and I'm lazy to search through the forum.

13 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Shana stating how proud the team was of the game they've given us

Eh... You know the drill. You can't really publicly say "upper management forced arbitrary release date upon us", so we dance the dance.

I'm still happy though. This is gonna be one heck of a long EA period, true, but even now there's a lot of useful and constructive feedback on many features, which is a positive thing overall. I don't expect to play this game "seriously" until v1

[Lyneira]

12 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

The most egregious thing that happened in the AMA was Shana stating how proud the team was of the game they've given us.  Made me physically ill to hear that.  She even goes so far as to admit it's not really a game yet.  How can they possibly be proud of something this bad?

2 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Jfc, everyone is blabbering about happy and proud and literally nobody acknowledges the part about healthy mindset required for steady further development (which was also parts of the same answer).

The have to be bloody positive otherwise the motivation to work on the project is gone and that leads to what the doomsayers "predict".

I was listening in to the AMA when that particular mention of being proud was made. And I can't deny I had similar thoughts to @Scarecrow71 at that moment, where it seemed as if the game didn't still have its multitude of outstanding issues. It's very understandable to have thoughts like that when as a player, your reality of the game right now is far from what's needed to fully enjoy it as the game we hope it will be at the end of the roadmap. Feature wise, we don't have the same context of what's to come that the team is working in. Add on top of that fears in some of the community that the publisher might pull the plug on the game.

However, like @The Aziz says, it's important for team morale and motivation to celebrate successes, even small ones. They've come far to create KSP2 as it is, and laid groundwork for what it will be. And I can agree that's something to be proud of.

What would have helped with that perception in the first paragraph is to remind people in the same answer that they're committed to continuing to improve on stability and performance.

[The Aziz]

7 minutes ago, Lyneira said:

remind people in the same answer that they're committed to continuing to improve on stability and performance.

Like if (so far) two 200+ point patch notes weren't reflecting just that.

[Scarecrow71]

5 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Like if (so far) two 200+ point patch notes weren't reflecting just that.

Think about that for a moment.  In the 2 months the game has been out, they've had to fix 400+ issues...and they aren't even close to being done with fixes.  Not to mention that they aren't ready to being able to do roadmap feature releases, even though we've been shown gameplay that for some reason doesn't yet exist.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Scarecrow71

[The Aziz]

So... What's the alternative? Releasing 800+ bugs in two months (working 24/7 and dying from exhaustion), ooor not releasing the game (impossible because most likely someone on a higher position in T2 ordered a release before FY ended)

10 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

we've been shown gameplay that for some reason doesn't yet exist.

For the 50th time, just because something appears somewhere, doesn't mean it's ready for public release. By your logic they should've released the game when it looked like that

Only because it existed.

Edited April 22, 2023 by The Aziz

[Lyneira]

20 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Like if (so far) two 200+ point patch notes weren't reflecting just that.

Those patch notes, while the fixes were much appreciated, were not part of the AMA session, and do not change the fact there are many bugs remaining. To emphasize, I said "What would have helped with that perception [...] remind people in the same answer." That defuses what could seem like cognitive dissonance on the team's part for a player who's preoccupied with being unable do the things they want in the game because of the bugs that are still there.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

17 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

After the AMA yesterday, I am ready to put the game down almost permanently

Missed it - what, did she have the attitude 'everything is great, tell your friends to buy KSP2!!!'? 

Because the more they keep that crap up, the more they're liquiding off their core fans 

[The Aziz]

How many times do they have to repeat the same thing though? Beating the same horse over and over (like in this thread) doesn't bring anyone closer to bugfree product. It doesn't matter where it's said, it's been said, shown, whatever. Why do you need reminders for something you already know? It's like those not-very-healthy relationships when one side needs constant reassurances that the other half loves them.

Besides, AMAs are very much live events, you don't have much time to prepare specific answers the demanding part may want to hear.

[Lyneira]

18 hours ago, The Aziz said:

How many times do they have to repeat the same thing though?

I think it's fair to spare a thought for it when the question being answered is:

Is the team at IG/PD happy with the current state of the game? (Sunny54Games, Discord)

Edit: As I later found out re-reading the answer, she did spare a thought, so I'm happy with that.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Lyneira

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

On 4/20/2023 at 10:58 PM, RocketRockington said:

a free  closed beta that would have gotten them feedback

It would have also been wildly different in terms of players response and effect on the reputation of the title.

Not only have player numbers dropped to 2% of purchases, but even the most positive and patient among us are losing faith.

KSP2 is already a cautionary tale to the industry.  Or should be.