Air Bugs

[Stephensan]

10 minutes ago, nestor said:

I mentioned a few weeks ago that we are trying find a balance between bug fixing, performance improvements, new content and update releasing. That means that we are making progress in all of the above but probably none of them is as fast as people would like to. 

We have been sharing more on the bug fixing side because we have seen a lot of interest in that area but that doesn't mean we are not making progress in other areas.

We are actually making very good progress on Science and we already have a bunch of stuff ready to be shared in the following weeks (if you don't mind us showing in-progress stuff).

On Re-entry, the team working on that has been exploring several solutions but they all come with challenges and they are working through those challenges in order to pick the best solution. There is great material for a future Dev post for sure. 

"poggers"

[RocketRockington]

@nestor Thanks for the update.  Good to hear from someone is is responsible for the velocity!

But you shouldn't post so close after mine, people will accuse you of encouraging the toxic individuals. 

[nestor]

4 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

But you shouldn't post so close after mine, people will accuse you of encouraging the toxic individuals. 

 I will keep that in mind next time. 

[Strawberry]

35 minutes ago, nestor said:

We are actually making very good progress on Science and we already have a bunch of stuff ready to be shared in the following weeks (if you don't mind us showing in-progress stuff).

I don't think people at all mind here, I think the main strife comes when people view a disconnect between what is being shown vs what is part of the main priority of the game. This in depth reporting on bugs is great, but past 0.1.3 I think it would be good to do more mixed reporting (ie both depthful bug reporting and depthful science/heating/etc). Depending on how close science is (ie if you expect it to be within the next two updates), it may be a good idea to show off some of the more specifics of the changes, stuff like showing off a tutorial video for science. 

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, nestor said:

We are actually making very good progress on Science and we already have a bunch of stuff ready to be shared in the following weeks (if you don't mind us showing in-progress stuff).

On Re-entry, the team working on that has been exploring several solutions but they all come with challenges and they are working through those challenges in order to pick the best solution.

The problem with the coverage of the game is that 4 months ago we were shown a whole one screenshot with heating, and a month ago a whole one scientific detail. And that's it. And now some vague wording. Will we see heating this year? Or  science? I know one game in early access, in which the developers once a week talk about the percentage of completion of the upcoming update. You leave us too much scope for fantasies, and since we have already received much less than we were promised, many people paint in their imagination a completely unsightly picture.

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, nestor said:

On Re-entry, the team working on that has been exploring several solutions but they all come with challenges and they are working through those challenges in order to pick the best solution. There is great material for a future Dev post for sure. 

Although I highly doubt I'll get an answer, I have to ask:

Why was KSP2 rebuilt from scratch instead of building and improving upon KSP1's code?

[Superluminal Gremlin]

4 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

KSP1's code?

Im no expert, but from what i can tell from the KSP 1 mods subforums, its a buggy horrible mess. Maybe. But its an old game with old code clashing with newer features from unity, so problems arise. Im no modder, so ask someone who actually knows what they are speaking about.

 

 

Also

Is that some good transparency for you lot? 

good to hear science mode is doing good stuff, looking forward to it

[Alexoff]

2 hours ago, Superluminal Gremlin said:

Im no expert, but from what i can tell from the KSP 1 mods subforums, its a buggy horrible mess

They must not have seen the KSP2 code.  For 6 years, it was possible to understand the code and improve it many times. Or at least not stumble over every bump when developing KSP2.
I think the real reason is because the developers of KSP2 overestimated themselves, and they thought they could make the code better. But design errors and production hell only made things worse.

[jebycheek]

9 hours ago, nestor said:

On Re-entry, the team working on that has been exploring several solutions but they all come with challenges and they are working through those challenges in order to pick the best solution. There is great material for a future Dev post for sure

first of all I'm not a professional but I can tell this game needs to be completely revamp or change game engine to run all the thing on the roadmap smoothly. and those idealize feature that already been announced. it must be whole lot of work and the developers did consider this long time ago I imagine, really do hope this game survive the following years and maybe prosper, Keep it up. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by jebycheek

[Periple]

14 minutes ago, jebycheek said:

first of all I'm not a professional but I can tell this game needs to be completely revamp or change game engine to run all the thing on the roadmap smoothly

No, you can't tell if you're not a professional. And even if you are, you're guessing and might guess wrong. From the outside, fundamental architectural problems and superficial bugs and performance bottlenecks look exactly the same.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Periple

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

On 6/12/2023 at 2:04 AM, Alexoff said:

Where is the new code better than the old one? Any details other than the vague improbable possibilities in the distant future?

Never said it was better. 

What vague improbable possibilities are you alluding to? 

35 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

They must not have seen the KSP2 code. 

Do you have knowledge to the code of both games? 
Have you written any mods that I do not know about, or have you digged deep in the code? 

[jebycheek]

9 minutes ago, Periple said:

No, you can't tell if you're not a professional. And even if you are, you're guessing and might guess wrong. From the outside, fundamental architectural problems and superficial bugs and performance bottlenecks look exactly the same.

well, like I said, not a professional but I do know KSP1 and the difference in between, so far. yes I'm making a guess, it might be wrong. but it should be right.

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

Do you have knowledge to the code of both games? 

No, but I see the results of this code, as well as progress in studying the causes of bugs and the appearance of fixes.

1 hour ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

Have you written any mods that I do not know about, or have you digged deep in the code? 

Of course not, but I trust modders more than developers and their dedicated fans.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

15 hours ago, Alexoff said:

And then what can be discussed in the game until 10 years or so have passed?

Those of us who play it know that it contains an entire miniature solar system that’s been completely re-vamped, a pile of rocket parts, many new, all different to some degree, redone systems, and, to be fair, some bugs that can interfere, temporarily (and that can be worked around and discussed).  The main discussion forum has a bunch of threads about playing the game and things people have done.  Ditto YouTube.  We’re a week away from a major update.  There’s the new and improved dev posts.  There’s the roadmap to speculate about.

There’s lots to drink in this glass, and it’s only going to get fuller.  And frankly, I won’t complain even in the unlikely event that it does take a decade.  KSP took a decade, and it was great fun the entire time.

12 hours ago, nestor said:

I mentioned a few weeks ago that we are trying find a balance between bug fixing, performance improvements, new content and update releasing. That means that we are making progress in all of the above but probably none of them is as fast as people would like to. 

We have been sharing more on the bug fixing side because we have seen a lot of interest in that area but that doesn't mean we are not making progress in other areas.

We are actually making very good progress on Science and we already have a bunch of stuff ready to be shared in the following weeks (if you don't mind us showing in-progress stuff).

On Re-entry, the team working on that has been exploring several solutions but they all come with challenges and they are working through those challenges in order to pick the best solution. There is great material for a future Dev post for sure. 

In other words, you guys have been doing exactly what we all should have known you were doing all along, instead of melting down.  Awesome, thanks, and I look forwards to the upcoming updates and dev posts!

Edited June 13, 2023 by Wheehaw Kerman

[Superluminal Gremlin]

11 minutes ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

We’re a week away from a major update.

Oh man, we are. Sweet. Gonna be interesting...

[Wheehaw Kerman]

15 minutes ago, Superluminal Gremlin said:

Oh man, we are. Sweet. Gonna be interesting...

Can’t wait.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if Nate and team have switched to an underpromise/overdeliver strategy…

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

41 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

No, but I see the results of this code, as well as progress in studying the causes of bugs and the appearance of fixes.

Of course not, but I trust modders more than developers and their dedicated fans.

Then why do you state so firmly about the code here?

3 hours ago, Alexoff said:

They must not have seen the KSP2 code.  (...)

I found some source material on this after digging a bit. 

This thread probably also highlights how much cleaning the code of KSP1 needs. 
Why, you say? Because it's a damn complex game to build. 
KSP2 even more so. 

I feel just posting complaints of the game for the heck of it without looking at source material before stating opinion as facts will not make the discussions here more pleasant. 
Also this thread here provides good insight in how all of our posts here in the threads below the "UpNates" have been percieved lately. 
Take a look! 

[Superluminal Gremlin]

Just now, Wheehaw Kerman said:

underpromise/overdeliver

I don't know why they would, but maybe, that would be sweet. I feel like the best strategy is to promise/deliver.

[kdaviper]

44 minutes ago, Superluminal Gremlin said:

I don't know why they would, but maybe, that would be sweet. I feel like the best strategy is to promise/deliver.

Because people will cry that they have been lied to when stated goals haven't been met. 

[RaBDawG]

1 hour ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Can’t wait.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if Nate and team have switched to an underpromise/overdeliver strategy…

LOL.  I wouldn't get my hopes up.  All these devs do is talk and under deliver.  

[Scarecrow71]

8 hours ago, Superluminal Gremlin said:

Im no expert, but from what i can tell from the KSP 1 mods subforums, its a buggy horrible mess. Maybe. But its an old game with old code clashing with newer features from unity, so problems arise. Im no modder, so ask someone who actually knows what they are speaking about.

This is becoming the most tired excuse when it comes to asking about code.  "TT/PD/IG had to write code that is buggy because KSP1 is buggy."  It's just a lazy excuse to say KSP1 is buggy and that is why they started from scratch.

All code ever written in the history of writing code has had bugs.  Every game on the market right now has bugs, and that is evidenced by the litany of hacks, glitches, exploits, cheats, etc., that you can find for any game out there.  We would all love to say that code is free of bugs, and that everything works just fine the way it is and there is never a need to go squashing code that doesn't work.  But that's unrealistic and untrue.  Every game has bugs.

And you all but made my point for me.  Ok, so KSP1 has bugs.  It also has hundreds of mods that have corrected those bugs.  Modders - who are nothing more than unpaid, eager developers - found, investigated, coded, tested, and published fixes for those bugs.  So why not start with 1.12.5 as a foundation and make some of those mods part of core so that they no longer exist?  Heck, make a few other pretty critical mods - MJ, KER, KAS, KIS, to name a few - as part of core?  I don't disagree that there are going to be clashes with newer features in Unity...but if they have to write new code in KSP2 to deal with those, why not attempt to update KSP1 code to deal with them?  At least KSP1 has a mostly-stable foundation to build upon, unlike KSP2 which has pretty nasty bugs that make the game unplayable for some people, and barely playable for others?  Why not use the knowledge and foundation that already exists?

[kdaviper]

26 minutes ago, RaBDawG said:

LOL.  I wouldn't get my hopes up.  All these devs do is talk and under deliver.  

Sounds like a lot of posters here!

Just now, Scarecrow71 said:

This is becoming the most tired excuse when it comes to asking about code.  "TT/PD/IG had to write code that is buggy because KSP1 is buggy."  It's just a lazy excuse to say KSP1 is buggy and that is why they started from scratch.

All code ever written in the history of writing code has had bugs.  Every game on the market right now has bugs, and that is evidenced by the litany of hacks, glitches, exploits, cheats, etc., that you can find for any game out there.  We would all love to say that code is free of bugs, and that everything works just fine the way it is and there is never a need to go squashing code that doesn't work.  But that's unrealistic and untrue.  Every game has bugs.

And you all but made my point for me.  Ok, so KSP1 has bugs.  It also has hundreds of mods that have corrected those bugs.  Modders - who are nothing more than unpaid, eager developers - found, investigated, coded, tested, and published fixes for those bugs.  So why not start with 1.12.5 as a foundation and make some of those mods part of core so that they no longer exist?  Heck, make a few other pretty critical mods - MJ, KER, KAS, KIS, to name a few - as part of core?  I don't disagree that there are going to be clashes with newer features in Unity...but if they have to write new code in KSP2 to deal with those, why not attempt to update KSP1 code to deal with them?  At least KSP1 has a mostly-stable foundation to build upon, unlike KSP2 which has pretty nasty bugs that make the game unplayable for some people, and barely playable for others?  Why not use the knowledge and foundation that already exists?

From what I understand, the way the game handles orbits and maneuvers had to be completely rewritten to allow for seamless integration of interstellar and multiplayer. 

What we see as smooth lines are actually a bunch of discrete straight lines stitched together.

[Scarecrow71]

21 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

From what I understand, the way the game handles orbits and maneuvers had to be completely rewritten to allow for seamless integration of interstellar and multiplayer. 

What we see as smooth lines are actually a bunch of discrete straight lines stitched together.

And there's a reason they couldn't overlay it on KSP1 which is...what, exactly?  I stated in my post that if they have to write new code to deal with new features, why can't they do that on top of what already works?  Why recreate the entire wheel when all they need to do is polish a hubcap or fill the tire with air?

[LoSBoL]

2 hours ago, Superluminal Gremlin said:

I don't know why they would, but maybe, that would be sweet. I feel like the best strategy is to promise/deliver.

Quite simple, it's clear that reactions very fast go to hyping the game, marketing the game, upselling the game and overpromissing as soon as something is shown which we won't be getting for a while.

So it is better to just let actions speak louder than words.

[Dakitess]

Oh please no, leave KSP1 alone, don't touch it, don't ruin it, stick to KSP2 xD