Out of moderate interest...

[Vl3d]

2 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Here we go again

I feel like I missed all the fun. And besides heat, bug fixes, better terrain and science updates.. you guys also forgot about the buyoncy update that's supposed to fix the water and add some ship parts. The team is working on a lot of cool things.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

1 minute ago, gluckez said:

This, absolutely. it's something that we should definitely credit Private Division for. The very fact that we have these forums, can interact directly with the dev team,
get updates on what the status is of current workitems and can log bugs.

They get a lot of crap when something isn't working or isn't finished but they should get credit when they do something right as well.

But I'm not convinced that they should sell the franchise, that won't benefit anyone. you would have a less experienced studio with the responsibility of managing expectations like this...

In theory yes, but in practice do you feel that by writing here you have any power over the future of the game? I don't.

The only recent example is how a lot of people, including me, literally begged them to put together a public bug tracker so we can finally understand what they are working on and how they prioritize bug fixes in future patches. They said hold your horses, we can't just do one, it would be difficult to pull, and so on. And in the end they finally done it after it took way more convincing than it should have took for such a fundamental feature for a game that's an EA.

 

Then there's this patch. Which after many delays, they announced the delay of the delayed patch on twitter first. Then they posted a link here on Twitter. 

While much appreciated they gave us a heads up the patch is being delayed, they couldn't say one week after the delay, when the patch is actually coming.

So does this appear to you like transparent and honest communication where user feedback is valued? Not so much to me.

 

[RocketRockington]

20 minutes ago, gluckez said:

This, absolutely. it's something that we should definitely credit Private Division for. The very fact that we have these forums, can interact directly with the dev team,
get updates on what the status is of current workitems and can log bugs.

They get a lot of crap when something isn't working or isn't finished but they should get credit when they do something right as well.

But I'm not convinced that they should sell the franchise, that won't benefit anyone. you would have a less experienced studio with the responsibility of managing expectations like this...

You mean these forums, that have existed since 2012, 5 years before T2/PD got involved in KSP?

[gluckez]

6 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

In theory yes, but in practice do you feel that by writing here you have any power over the future of the game? I don't.

I do believe that logging bugs helps with the development of the game, and that coming up with ideas may inspire the developers to take a different approach when implementing 
features that are already on the roadmap.

The truth is, you can't satisfy every single player, but the fact that they did put up that bug tracker means you do have some power. I also think the devs should try to stick
closely to the roadmap they put up, and not get distracted by what some people in the community are demanding.

12 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

So does this appear to you like transparent and honest communication where user feedback is valued? Not so much to me.

It does actually. They're very transparent about the fact that it's going to be delayed, but as a developer I understand how difficult it can be to estimate how long it can take to get a fix out. If you promise it's going to be done
in a week, you'll get excrements if you don't get it done in time.

1 minute ago, RocketRockington said:

You mean these forums, that have existed since 2012, 5 years before T2/PD got involved in KSP?

yes, It doesn't matter how long they've existed, but the fact that they're actively used.

[Pthigrivi]

11 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

....anything happening over here these days? 

Yeah. Basically the above in every thread in the section. As you can see after the 500th time this performance has gotten a bit stale. 

[VlonaldKerman]

10 hours ago, Alpha_star said:

Might be a bit too personal, but from what I have observed, the community has divided in to three groups.

I think there is a fourth group: the “morally superiors” (not necessarily you, these people tend to be more active and aggressive).

These people scope out the forums for the places where the “same old arguments” are taking place, then make a post bemoaning these arguments and advocating for more civil, substantive discussion. However, they themselves never actually participate in that discussion! The threads with substantive discussion lie dormant because there isn’t that much to discuss, what with the lack of updates and all.

Bonus points if they ignore the specific points being made and lump all of the criticism into the same “angry about bugs” basket.

[AtomicTech]

15 hours ago, razark said:

Same old arguments from the same old people.

But it seems like it's losing steam; to me, it feels like the forums are just a little empty...

[Carraux]

7 hours ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

The only recent example is how a lot of people, including me, literally begged them to put together a public bug tracker so we can finally understand what they are working on and how they prioritize bug fixes in future patches. They said hold your horses, we can't just do one, it would be difficult to pull, and so on. And in the end they finally done it after it took way more convincing than it should have took for such a fundamental feature for a game that's an EA.

Subnautica is a great example of how you can do this: Public bug tracker, public progress tracker, and in the game you simply it F8 for an ingame bug report (automatically makes screenshot, you can add text).

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

34 minutes ago, Carraux said:

Subnautica is a great example of how you can do this: Public bug tracker, public progress tracker, and in the game you simply it F8 for an ingame bug report (automatically makes screenshot, you can add text).

I wasn't aware of that, but now it makes sense because the attention to details can be seen in the game itself too, not only how development was handled. Subnautica has a very dear place in my heart, one of the few unique games you can easily get lost into, from the last decade.

There are countless other examples of how to pull off game development without being opaque, let's take a more recent example of Sons of the Forest, you literally have a countdown timer in the main menu to the next update + details ahead of time of what said update will contain. Crazy, I know. But that's where they have nothing to hide and instead something to show.

Edited August 29, 2023 by GGG-GoodGuyGreg

[PDCWolf]

8 hours ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

The only recent example is how a lot of people, including me, literally begged them to put together a public bug tracker so we can finally understand what they are working on and how they prioritize bug fixes in future patches. They said hold your horses, we can't just do one, it would be difficult to pull, and so on. And in the end they finally done it after it took way more convincing than it should have took for such a fundamental feature for a game that's an EA.

Let us never forget the active detractors for this idea claiming that "it is obvious they're working on everything, what do you need a public tracker for", "people will spam it with bad or fake reports",  and "the game itself will show their progress", along with other stuff, whilst laughing at people who proposed the idea and discrediting KSP1's bug tracker.

Edited August 29, 2023 by PDCWolf

[Alexoff]

It seems to me that many topics will soon be closed on this forum. The main discussion of the KSP2 has already been closed for half a day

[Stephensan]

51 minutes ago, Carraux said:

Subnautica is a great example of how you can do this: Public bug tracker, public progress tracker, and in the game you simply it F8 for an ingame bug report (automatically makes screenshot, you can add text).

i been asking for a easy, in game bug reporter since day one... i will stand my ground and say I'm not going to waste 20 minutes doing a forum post for "everything" when they can just grab my computer specs, date, if i have mods or not, what settings I'm playing, my save file, and an additional photo/video upload, with a photo being taken of for just a sprite like Minecraft worlds so you can differentiate them..... in 5 minutes or less.. most games in early access ahem:

HAVE BUG REPORTING LOCATIONS EVERYWHERE IN THEIR GAMES..

how do we not have an in game bug reporting system in a "early access" game, when there is games that are in the same situation have a bug report in game

computer specs, date, if i have mods or not, what settings I'm playing, my save file, and an additional photo upload... is it that hard to put that in the game after 6 months? Yes, i did time myself on three separate occasions doing all these steps and the quickest time was 13 minutes and 47 seconds. The only thing difference is i knew my computer specs..

 

i mean again is it hard to implement it in the game where it can grab computer specs, date, if i have mods or not, what settings I'm playing, my save file, and an additional photo upload's automatically after a user accepts that that is what the game is going to get and grab? its ease of use to make bug report a larger thing, and needing to sign into a forum, getting your system specs, your game file, the craft in question, a detailed report, additional photos or videos before you can even report I'm just not doing it. when doing all these steps out of the game frustration will hit, the game will be closed before then..

[Periple]

If you make it too easy to report bugs, you’ll get too many bug reports and won’t have the resources to sort through them! 

And even if you do, those resources would be better spent on systematically testing the game. Bug reports from the public only become useful when the bug count is so low that in-house testing won’t catch some of the more important ones. In this case, I’m quite sure that the problem isn’t a lack of bug reports!

[didkodidko]

On 8/29/2023 at 11:25 AM, gluckez said:

This, absolutely. it's something that we should definitely credit Private Division for. The very fact that we have these forums, can interact directly with the dev team,
get updates on what the status is of current workitems and can log bugs.

They get a lot of crap when something isn't working or isn't finished but they should get credit when they do something right as well.

But I'm not convinced that they should sell the franchise, that won't benefit anyone. you would have a less experienced studio with the responsibility of managing expectations like this...

Are you kidding me?

50$ is nothing, for someone more, but it bounds to a promise made. Take a credit when they do something right? Are we in the kindergarten? Isn't it delivering something that was promised to be considered is right? Not expecting credit when you achieve your promises is considered right also. 

Should we give them credit? I gave and they underdelivered. Is it right to apploud the devs?

oio

[Kerbart]

On 8/29/2023 at 3:07 PM, Periple said:

If you make it too easy to report bugs, you’ll get too many bug reports and won’t have the resources to sort through them! 

And even if you do, those resources would be better spent on systematically testing the game. Bug reports from the public only become useful when the bug count is so low that in-house testing won’t catch some of the more important ones. In this case, I’m quite sure that the problem isn’t a lack of bug reports!

It might provide some numbers on what the community thinks needs to be prioritized though. While losing sound certainly is annoying, few outside Intercept Games will claim that it's a bigger issue than Decaying Orbits. And yet it got fixed first. Surely it was easier to fix, but the fact remains  that IG seems rather deaf in regards of what needs fixing. We got air brakes though. Yay!

[Siska]

I stopped playing ksp2 in between last patch and latest one. i started a game, constructed rover.

Unfortunatelly, when i jettisoned protective fairing, it destroyed my rover.

Still the same bug that makes the fairing fall to Kerbin in some weird fashion.

I shut down the game and will try again when new patch arrives:(

[Meecrob]

On 9/4/2023 at 1:25 PM, Siska said:

I stopped playing ksp2 in between last patch and latest one. i started a game, constructed rover.

Unfortunatelly, when i jettisoned protective fairing, it destroyed my rover.

Still the same bug that makes the fairing fall to Kerbin in some weird fashion.

I shut down the game and will try again when new patch arrives:(

I wish I could say your situation was unique, and maybe your computer needed video drivers updated, but no, this is all of our experience...put it down...

[KerikBalm]

On 8/29/2023 at 3:51 AM, Alpha_star said:

Might be a bit too personal, but from what I have observed, the community has divided in to three groups.

The first one is the normal players/ community members without a very clear opinion. I’d say that they like to post mission reports and wacky creations. From my observation, most members of the KSP2 community belongs to this group.

 The second group is what I call the “haters”. Now this might be somewhat impolite but please don’t attack me for this. They are often focused on the game’s slow progress and how buggy/unoptimized it is without acknowledging the fact that some progress has been made. People belonging to this group are often overly pessimistic and love attacking others in-person, especially the developers.

Now the third group is what I call the “ white knights”. People of this group defends the game from anything, even constructive critism. Apart from being completely different, people of this group are similar to the “haters” in many ways.

I don't fit any of those.

I don't have a positive opinion of the product as is, and I don't have confidence that they will sufficiently remedy the situation.

I hope they remedy the situation. I'm not going to be on here much, spreading the pessimism, because that may become a self fulfilling prophecy. I'm not going to blow smoke and say everything is great, because if the devs believe it is, that's not good either.

So, I think it's best to sit back and be generally silent. Give praise where praise is due, and greet disappointment with silence.

[Bej Kerman]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:37 AM, Buzz313th said:

Ha!

Here, lemme poor you some more kool aid young fella...

 

Just stopped by to peek around the corner and see what was going on...

Nothing obviously.

So pathetic.

You can't complain about the forum being horrible to use when it's full of exactly what I'm quoting right here.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:33 PM, razark said:

Same old arguments from the same old people.

Yup.  I’d say that I’m impressed at some people’s ability to stay so mad so long so vehemently and so vocally over… this, but “impressed” is the wrong word - altogether wrong connotations.  
 

[AtomicTech]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:51 PM, Alpha_star said:

Might be a bit too personal, but from what I have observed, the community has divided in to three groups.

The first one is the normal players/ community members without a very clear opinion. I’d say that they like to post mission reports and wacky creations. From my observation, most members of the KSP2 community belongs to this group.

 The second group is what I call the “haters”. Now this might be somewhat impolite but please don’t attack me for this. They are often focused on the game’s slow progress and how buggy/unoptimized it is without acknowledging the fact that some progress has been made. People belonging to this group are often overly pessimistic and love attacking others in-person, especially the developers.

Now the third group is what I call the “ white knights”. People of this group defends the game from anything, even constructive critism. Apart from being completely different, people of this group are similar to the “haters” in many ways.

I used to be in the second group as I was really, really unhappy but I eventually got over it and decided that I was gonna go back to my one true love: KSP Classic with just the right amount of stockalike mods!