Are you happy that only 7 science collection devices are planned for 0.2?

[Pthigrivi]

3 hours ago, stephensmat said:

Yeah, I agree with everyone who thinks that 'Mapping/Scanning' will come with the Resources Update. Right now, what are we scanning for?

At the very least biome maps and anomalies. We should really be able to see what and where the biomes are so we can keep easy visual track of where we've been. That seems essential to giving a players a clear picture of what this game is actually about. 

Again, for science to actually feel like science it should really be revealing information thats useful to the player. I know a lot of hoped-for features like trajectories factoring drag and visible in flight mode aren't there yet but those could be really important for aerocapture maneuvers and precision landings on planets with atmospheres. Same with slope maps for finding good landing zones. There's a lot there that could help players get better at the core aspects of the game. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Pthigrivi

[Superfluous J]

Like every other piece of information we have about the upcoming patch, I do not have enough data to know if 7 parts is good or bad.

"We're serving a 7 course meal"
"Awesome! What's first?"
"This grain of rice."

[Wheehaw Kerman]

15 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

You don't need to get into roadmap items. There's been feedback on the UI, playability, QOL, physics and so on since day 1. If something wasn't a very obvious bug, that feedback hasn't been addressed neither positively or negatively.

 

Well, if you’re of the view that the fan feedback to date has been constructive, what to make of the several hundreds of bugfixes?

[magnemoe]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:52 PM, cocoscacao said:

Gravity assist... Never understood how to execute them with any useful effects. 

Problem with gravity assist from planets is lining it all up  so you pass another planet after passing the first. 
The Mun is very easy and standard flyby will send you out out of Kerbin SOI, while passing ahead of the Mun give you an free return trajectory. 

And Jool system is perfect for testing it out, from the simple loop past Jool to get an solar impact of flyby. But also the moons, going in from Pol you can use Tylo to get an cheaper trip to Laythe 

[cocoscacao]

17 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Problem with gravity assist from planets is lining it all up  so you pass another planet after passing the first.

This. How?

I understand GA and using Mun and Tylo on a regular basis, but how to plan on "hitting" multiple bodies? 

[Superfluous J]

7 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

This. How?

I understand GA and using Mun and Tylo on a regular basis, but how to plan on "hitting" multiple bodies? 

Trial and error, tons of math, or find a website.

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

Trial and error, tons of math, or find a website.

Yes, I have never done it, also think its more for challenges and recreating historic missions.  Payloads in KSP is not as constrained as in real world. 

[cocoscacao]

2 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

tons of math

That would be fun to see in tutorials. Explain this baby!

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

That would be fun to see in tutorials. Explain this baby!

Note that the math for multiple gravity assists are significantly harder.
In real world getting you position in interplanetary space is also non trivial as you only have the position of planets and the time delay back to earth to calculate it with. 
We probably should get some sort of interplanetary gps down the line, probably most important for mars as you will aerobrake there. 

[cocoscacao]

13 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Note that the math for multiple gravity assists are significantly harder.

Probably... Actually, I'm gonna hop on investigating how it's done. A fun video I remembered due to this talk:

The video mentioned in the comment, or rather, comment response above. Yes, you're thinking correctly. This indeed IS the longest text ever put as a description of the link.

[Urus28]

I'm not interested in the sandbox game with everything available.

I prefer to have some progression, so I would say that 7 experiments is at least a start to have interest in KSP2.

[chefsbrian]

I'm not really bothered. My focus for any early access is systems, not specifically content, as systems are the hard part of the equation. Its comparatively easy for them to do a later update that adds more once the systems are in place. And if I'm really hungering for more, I'm sure some modders will jump on making fun stuff once its out.

[LoSBoL]

Only 7 parts? Could be worse, could be better.

Looking forward to implementation and see how everything works out.

[MarcAbaddon]

As some others say it depends on the details. Just having more parts to add and click doesn't make the game better.

Just look at KSP 1: you could have combined the barometer and the thermometer and nothing of value would have been lost, since they have exactly the same mechanics. Likewise, the mystery goo and the material science bay mainly differ in that the science bay has more volume and weight. But what could easily have been done is 'integrating' the goo into the science bay, so that the science can completely replace it. 

I would rather have more depth to the system. Have different multipliers and biome differentiation for the different parts . For example, what exactly would you gain from using a barometer in the 5th vacuum biome on the same body? Have some measurement take a longer amount of time.  Require certain conditions for others, like needing to be in free fall or moving through the atmosphere. So depth >= number of parts. But no mini games please.

[Dakitess]

I've never played science except when it was brought to KSP1 back in the day. So just once and things might have evolved then, but the common feeling of our French community is... a rather not interesting game mode and what I see about it is really not inviting to try it again.

Anyway, about parts, indeed there is clearly no point to have separated in multiple modules, if they have barely no impact in price (no more price in KSP2, furthermore). They are compact enough that you would just slap them on any craft "just in case", and use it accordingly or forget about it. As you guys said, right click, make science, repeatedly, it's not interesting, better assemble them all in one main science part or whatever.

In the same time, you totally lose the RolePlay aspect of it. One big part to rule them all ? Meh. 

I don't know, Science seems to be flawed at the root because of how it's done, relative to parts and to the context, the objectives, the incentive. It lacks depth, coherence, some way to reward the player that "think" about it, about a specific mission to register specific data that leads to discoveries. It still does not fix the Science Part Number question haha.

[jastrone]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:34 PM, Bej Kerman said:

On 11/7/2023 at 7:13 PM, dansiegel30 said:

I hope resources for interstellar are only located around Jool

Why not the Mun? There's probably an abundance of hydrogen and helium on its surface.

because that is boring and excrementsty game design

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, jastrone said:

On 11/7/2023 at 6:34 PM, Bej Kerman said:

On 11/7/2023 at 6:13 PM, dansiegel30 said:

I hope resources for interstellar are only located around Jool

Why not the Mun? There's probably an abundance of hydrogen and helium on its surface.

because that is boring and excrementsty game design

It's realistic, and real space ventures aren't established to hunt for arbitrary elements so I can't say I want to see KSP 2 making specific things exclusive to certain bodies.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Bej Kerman
Typo

[Brody.mack]

I feel like they are also emphasizing the story aspect too. They mentioned how there will be an overall story in the game, so maybe they are trying to make that the driving force behind exploration.

[jastrone]

On 11/23/2023 at 11:10 AM, Bej Kerman said:

On 11/23/2023 at 10:38 AM, jastrone said:

On 11/7/2023 at 7:34 PM, Bej Kerman said:

On 11/7/2023 at 7:13 PM, dansiegel30 said:

I hope resources for interstellar are only located around Jool

Why not the Mun? There's probably an abundance of hydrogen and helium on its surface.

because that is boring and excrementsty game design

It's realistic, and real space ventures aren't established to hunt for arbitrary elements so I can't say I want to see KSP 2 making specific things exclusive to certain bodies.

ksps proggression has never been about realism.  ksp 2 also takes place in the future and the whole point of colonies is to hunt for arbitrary elements.

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, jastrone said:

ksps proggression has never been about realism.

KSP's progression has also been widely criticised and most mods that alter the progression make an effort towards realism.

1 minute ago, jastrone said:

ksp 2 also takes place in the future and the whole point of colonies is to hunt for arbitrary elements.

The Universe won't start inventing elements just because it's the future, and the point of colonies is to harvest presumably-generic resources so you can launch from other planets.

[MarcAbaddon]

I think there are substantial hints that you indeed need to collect exotic resources from specific other bodies instead of just collecting generic resources. With automated delivery runs and no money just collecting generic resources at each colony adds very little to the game, since you could just ship everything you need there (as long as it can be gotten from Kerbin, the Mun or Minmus).

You already mentioned Helium on the moon, but that could include Helium-3. 

Metallic Hydrogen which was mentioned early on as a possible engine tech, might be something you get from gas planets (though realistically speaking the extraction would be a challenge).  

It could easily be something in the middle where each of the rarer resources can be mined from multiple locations, but where you still need to do to at least one of them. 

[Periple]

30 minutes ago, MarcAbaddon said:

It could easily be something in the middle where each of the rarer resources can be mined from multiple locations, but where you still need to do to at least one of them. 

I'm curious if resources will be exhaustible. It would make surveying a lot more interesting since you couldn't just time-warp past a low resource concentration and big deposits would be that much more valuable, and it would give an impetus to keep exploring since you would have to find new ones as old ones run out. On the other hand it would mean potentially a lot more busywork and I don't know how well it would mesh with timewarp since you could exhaust all your deposits while warping to an interstellar destination (although of course you would have stockpiles full of the extracted/refined resources).

My personal tilt would be to make them exhaustible, I think the downsides can be managed through other gameplay systems and the upsides in emergent gameplay are big!

[Bej Kerman]

5 minutes ago, Periple said:

My personal tilt would be to make them exhaustible, I think the downsides can be managed through other gameplay systems and the upsides in emergent gameplay are big!

What if the resource density just approaches a certain fraction of the original at a logarithmic rate? You can stay in one place or forget about a colony, but there's still benefits to surface exploration and active management.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Bej Kerman

[jastrone]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:07 AM, Bej Kerman said:

KSP's progression has also been widely criticised and most mods that alter the progression make an effort towards realism.

looking at the tech tree that we have seen in the teaser it actually looks like they are stepping down from realism.  your main reasearch you have to unlock is rocket parts like fuel tanks and engines while you can optionally choose other things like electricity.

 

On 11/27/2023 at 11:07 AM, Bej Kerman said:

The Universe won't start inventing elements just because it's the future, and the point of colonies is to harvest presumably-generic resources so you can launch from other planets.

that doesnt mean that there arent resources only found on certain planets. especially when they can just say that a planet just doesnt have that recource because its their fictional world made for a game to work