Missions For the difficulty of the LIL CHONKER mission 35 Science as a reward is too low

[Vortygont]

Reported Version: v0.2.0 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Windows 10 | CPU: Intel Core i7 9750H | GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 | RAM: 16 GB

 

The goal of mission is to deliver over 200 tons to Minmus as one craft. Its absolutely complex and not trivial task, it's not like deliver another craft, it's 200 tons. For comparison the biggest methalox tank S4-51200 has weight 256 tons. Obviously player must to go to great lengths to win a ridiculous 35 points award. I believe this mission must be at least 3 tech level and have comparable to the number of science points in a node of that tech level is the reward

 

[hatterson]

As @EchoNovemberDelterreferenced, the follow up contract (BIG 'N HUSKY) which you can get before completing this one FWIW), says to go land 300 tons on Duna (100 more) and references that additional number both as numerals (300 tons) and text (one hundred tons of additional mass) so likely wasn't a fat fingered issue. "We delighted you with our LIL CHONKER vehicle, but 200 tons to Minmus is kid stuff. Now it's time to hit that growth spurt with the BIG 'N HUSKY, one hundred tons of additional mass for all your Duna exploration needs!"

That one offers a more reasonable 2400 science, but that's still fairly low considering the mass of the vehicle.

In general these two missions (any maybe more beyond?) seem to be a "this is a ridiculous request" type setup/mission, and in general it's fine to have those types of missions, but it should be more clearly communicated to the player via mission description by having the description say something like "This missing is ridiculous, can you believe we're being asked to do this? And for such a puny reward?" that way it's clearly communicated to the player that this is more of a "lol why not be silly" mission instead of real mission to complete. The fact that LIL CHONKER is available when you have relatively few missions unlocked also makes it important to communicate that this is a bit crazy since players will have far more inclination to do an "optional" mission when it's one of only 2 or 3 they have.

[QuiescentRabbitt]

I have to agree. By the time that you get the tech that makes this mission not overwhelmingly difficult and complex the science gain is worthless. I'd consider myself a very experienced builder and I couldn't figure out a good way to do it without 3.75m parts.

[NaughtyMonster]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:11 PM, Vortygont said:

The goal of mission is to deliver over 200 tons to Minmus as one craft. Its absolutely complex and not trivial task, it's not like deliver another craft, it's 200 tons. For comparison the biggest methalox tank S4-51200 has weight 256 tons. Obviously player must to go to great lengths to win a ridiculous 35 points award. I believe this mission must be at least 3 tech level and have comparable to the number of science points in a node of that tech level is the reward

 

Agreed, it took me so many iterations to get 200+ tonnes into Minmus orbit, and I still had to have 3(!!) goes at refuelling it there before I could get >200 tonnes onto the surface. I used 7 X200-64s (why do they only carry 32 tonnes?) and a few asparagus' in the end.

Feels like it should be 350 points, not 35, to me.

[Tedward]

It seems like this mission is trying to urge the player into using multiple launches to accomplish the task given.

If that is the case, the problem I have with it is that there were no missions to intercept and/or dock two vessels together.

I would suggest to replace this mission with a simpler, ' Dock two vessels together in Kerbin orbit' and give it the 35 Science.  Then, ' Dock and refuel a vessel in Minmus orbit' for 100ish science, and then a ,' land 200 tons' for 300ish science.

Use earlier missions to teach concepts on how to achieve the goals of later missions.  

[The Space Peacock]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

I assume it's an error in the mission parameters. The 200 tons must be wrong. It takes 8 Kickbacks just to get it off the launch pad.

hm, 35 science for a minmus mission would still be on the very low end. i suspect the 35 was either a placeholder that was forgotten, or its missing some zeros

[Kerbart]

54 minutes ago, The Space Peacock said:

hm, 35 science for a minmus mission would still be on the very low end. i suspect the 35 was either a placeholder that was forgotten, or its missing some zeros

Or... 200 science points for landing 35 toms?

[TechieV]

Yeah, I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS MISSION!!! And the fact it's introduced BEFORE landing on Minmus AND with low-tech feels incredibly bonkers! And the reward is SO SMALL! 

 

Devs, please fix this!

[EchoNovemberDelter]

Keep in mind the successor to this mission- 'Big n' Husky',' acknowledges the 200 tons to Minmus, then proposes a somehow more absurd mission to Duna with 300 tons. I got a 2-stage lander, game, not the ISV Venture Star.

[cocoscacao]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:24 PM, TechieV said:

And the reward is SO SMALL! 

Pity. Some people are only motivated by money science points. We landed on the Moon, not because it was cheap, but to satisfy our ego...

Edited December 26, 2023 by cocoscacao

[Sir Eskomaz]

I literally havent bothered because of the science reward even though im going into tier 4 at this point

[RSS_Explorer]

The next mission (300 tons to Duna) gets 3k science points, so the 35 for this mission definitely feels like a typo (at least one missing 0).

[Noobyeeter69]

it should be at LEAST 69420 science!!!!!!!

[The Space Peacock]

This is the game's way of telling us all we have a skill issue

[Kerbart]

I assume it's an error in the mission parameters. The 200 tons must be wrong. It takes 8 Kickbacks just to get it off the launch pad.

[MechBFP]

The mission has way too low of a reward for two reasons:

1) If done in a single launch it requires at least the first engine in tier 3 to accomplish, and even then you might need to dock a fueling vehicle to get the mass back up past 200.

2) If done without tier 3 it requires at least 2 to 4 separate launches and then docking them together to make a bigger vehicle before landing it.

Either of these options requires alot of science points, or alot of time, neither of which makes that reward reasonable.

Edited December 24, 2023 by MechBFP

[HebaruSan]

2 hours ago, hatterson said:

it should be more clearly communicated to the player via mission description by having the description say something like "This missing is ridiculous, can you believe we're being asked to do this? And for such a puny reward?" that way it's clearly communicated to the player that this is more of a "lol why not be silly" mission instead of real mission to complete.

I mean, they did call it

2 hours ago, hatterson said:

LIL CHONKER

[Bej Kerman]

Let me fix the title

"Mission only gets science points as a reward"

[NaughtyMonster]

13 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

Pity. Some people are only motivated by money science points. We landed on the Moon, not because it was cheap, but to satisfy our ego...

not to entirely forget the pressing need to develop ICBMs and generally dominate space during that rather tricky period with the USSR.

[TechieV]

20 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

Pity. Some people are only motivated by money science points. We landed on the Moon, not because it was cheap, but to satisfy our ego...

I meant that the difficulty and science reward were way out of proportion, not because I’m only into building rockets for the science.

 

But you’re still right. I’ll try to focus less on the science and just build rockets ‘cuz they’re fun (and to satisfy my ego)! 

[PTNLemay]

On 12/26/2023 at 5:14 PM, cocoscacao said:

Pity. Some people are only motivated by money science points. We landed on the Moon, not because it was cheap, but to satisfy our ego...

It just feels like awkward game design.  Like if you're playing a Super Mario game and you stumble onto Bowser on the 3rd level before you even face the first boss.
What makes it worse is you can't dismiss the mission.  It sticks around in the list nagging at you until you complete it.

[hatterson]

1 hour ago, PTNLemay said:

It just feels like awkward game design.  Like if you're playing a Super Mario game and you stumble onto Bowser on the 3rd level before you even face the first boss.
What makes it worse is you can't dismiss the mission.  It sticks around in the list nagging at you until you complete it.

Like I said earlier, I think it's fine in general as long as it's clearly communicated to the player that it's designed as a optional and "lol this is absurd" mission. The name of LIL' CHONKER is a hint at that, but doesn't do enough to separate itself as clearly a joke inside the writing and humor style of the "serious" Kerbal attitude to clearly communicate that to the player.

[Retro Starship]

NO! NOT FOR A FIRST MISSION TO MINMUS, I REPEAT IN CAPS AGAIN..NOT FOR A FIRST MISSION TO MINMUS. jeesh!

[schlosrat]

I don't have a problem with this mission. I have a problem that there's no mechanism in the game to dismiss it. There will always be missions that, for whatever reason, you decide not to do. I don't like building and flying planes, for example, so I typically skip the various explore missions in Kerbin where a plane is typically intended. Fine. Cool. No problemo. Now give me a way to say No Thanks to a mission so I never need to see it again. That's what's missing here.

[RocketBlam]

I just skip those missions. You're right. For the trouble you take to do this mission at this stage of the game, you're far better off just flying to Dres or something. I honestly thought 200 tons was a typo the first time I saw it.

[Biggen]

2 hours ago, RocketBlam said:

I just skip those missions. You're right. For the trouble you take to do this mission at this stage of the game, you're far better off just flying to Dres or something. I honestly thought 200 tons was a typo the first time I saw it.

Agree. I won’t even attempt it. It adds nothing to spacefaring role play. It’s literally an end game boss mission with no matching reward.