Bug Status [1/12]

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 hours ago, kdaviper said:

Yes they have streamlined a handful of things but I wouldn't say they have dumbed a whole lot down. 

Ksp2 is like a lasagna and we've only tasted the noodles so far.

You're right - that wasn't fair.

The systems are there - but players don't really have to engage with much.  Aside from flight / landing mechanics.

Science is just a button push XP farm - as long as you remember to push the button whenever it flashes.  Comms work, presuming you put a big enough antenna on the ship.

If I hadn't run into the 'landed state' bug - I'd already be doing the Duna missions after very few flights needed to get there.  In the old days, I'd have flown missions just to get KerbNet up and scan the surface.  Maybe that's the problem they're hoping to solve: too many of us never left Kerbin SOI.  As is, there's not much reason to stick around in the home system... absent bugs getting in the way of progress.

As of now... I'm hoping the Science! development / bug hunt cycle is relatively short.  Given that Colonies is where they are clearly aiming... I'd like to see the 'new' that the team is actually excited about.  Might make me (and others) stop grumbling so much about 'back in mah day'!

[Sluggo]

On 1/14/2024 at 4:50 PM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

...Maybe that's the problem they're hoping to solve: too many of us never left Kerbin SOI...

This is my biggest concern. I feel that for far too many people, KSP is "Hahahaha, space frogs go boom". To appeal to this part of the fanbase, they are more likely than not going to "streamline" the hardcore parts of the game that made it unique, and turn it into, as someone above said, a "Satisfactory-eque resource manager"

[Infinite Aerospace]

Just to clarify, there *isn't* a fix being implemented regarding the parachute issue? The reason I ask is because someone named "KerbalAdNetwork" (Whom is a KSP Community Manager) stated on a Reddit thread about the issue the following:

 

"Got it, thank you. We’ve identified the issue and it will be resolved in the next patch."

 

This was the day after For Science! dropped so I assumed it meant the parachute bug present in 0.2.0. Was there a previous bug with chutes?

[Icegrx]

“A lot of us like all the detailed line of sight/relay features in Commnet and it's definitely a thing we want to revisit, but as always we're having to balance multiple priorities.“

 

Simply give us a 3rd option: 

enable comnet 

disable comnet 

*enable comnet interference*
 

this keeps it easy for new players, yet allows what most of us want from KSP1 

 

no brainer 

 

[ChrisShourai]

23 hours ago, Icegrx said:

“A lot of us like all the detailed line of sight/relay features in Commnet and it's definitely a thing we want to revisit, but as always we're having to balance multiple priorities.“

 

Simply give us a 3rd option: 

enable comnet 

disable comnet 

*enable comnet interference*
 

this keeps it easy for new players, yet allows what most of us want from KSP1 

 

no brainer 

 

THIS 

[The Aziz]

... I think you underestimate the complexity by a lot if you just said "simply" and "no brainer".

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Just now, The Aziz said:

... I think you underestimate the complexity by a lot if you just said "simply" and "no brainer".

Yep - I keep wishing I could just CNTRL + V nertea's posts on the subject. 

... 

Summary: they don't want to do it unless they can do it right, and it's not simple, plus needs good graphical design and there are other, bigger fish to fry. 

[Astroneer08]

When 2.1.0?

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Astroneer08 said:

When 2.1.0?

SOON^TM

[Icegrx]

2 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Yep - I keep wishing I could just CNTRL + V nertea's posts on the subject. 

... 

Summary: they don't want to do it unless they can do it right, and it's not simple, plus needs good graphical design and there are other, bigger fish to fry. 

You know, I give them credit for a lot of things, but this is just an excuse. They did it in KSP1 just fine. 
 

this is everything to do with making the game more approachable, and little to do with their ability to do so.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Just now, Icegrx said:

You know, I give them credit for a lot of things, but this is just an excuse. They did it in KSP1 just fine. 
 

this is everything to do with making the game more approachable, and little to do with their ability to do so.

Recreation of KSP isn't their focus.  Getting to Colonies and the Resource Management part is. 

Anything detracting from that is - maybe something that will show up later. 

[PDCWolf]

5 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Recreation of KSP isn't their focus.

Really doesn't show so far... And it's arguably not a good recreation either, just remixes and QOL on some parts, regressions on others.

[Superfluous J]

32 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Really doesn't show so far...

Hence the recommendation to wait until the game is actually complete.

[Icegrx]

59 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

Hence the recommendation to wait until the game is actually complete.

I’m down to wait as long as they want, as long as I can get some confirmation that Comnet will be FULLY functional at some point. 
 

also, if we are skipping over the basics in order to tackle ambitious goals, then well.. indeed I will be waiting. 

[Superfluous J]

38 minutes ago, Icegrx said:

I’m down to wait as long as they want, as long as I can get some confirmation that Comnet will be FULLY functional at some point.

I don't see that confirmation forthcoming. Their current plan is to not make it any more complex than it is now.

[PDCWolf]

9 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Hence the recommendation to wait until the game is actually complete.

Honestly I don't believe the whole "basic implementation of everything and then iterate" approach. I don't think I've ever seen it in any game (examples appreciated, not as educated in this one aspect). The idea that they're gonna get to the latest milestones only to come back and redefine or redesign the foundations those features are standing on seems impossible to me. We might get balance tweaks, more parts, a tech tree reordering, sure,  but I seriously doubt these milestones would be retouched anything more than that.

 

[Superfluous J]

21 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Honestly I don't believe the whole "basic implementation of everything and then iterate" approach. I don't think I've ever seen it in any game (examples appreciated, not as educated in this one aspect).

I am also not really educated on that either, but one obvious example was KSP1. We had a placeholder atmosphere until actual release, and science got a big uptick after that (in dlc sadly). Every part went from looking like tin cans to looking like a space program. The VAB got massive upgrades over time with new features, etc etc etc.

However that's not what I'm talking about here.

I think Comm net is basically done, in feature set. Sure we'll probably get tweaks and maybe a new part or two for interstellar comms, but the need for relays and comm sats - I think - is not coming.

What you should be waiting for before you make up your mind if the game is ruined by this or not, is for the stuff you've not seen at all yet. Colonies and resource management and interstellar travel could make you realize that the whole relay satellite thing is "so KSP1" and you're glad you don't need to bother.

Now I, Personally would like to require relay satellites but JUST for when a planet/moon is in the way, but I'm guardedly cool with not ever having it, and 100% okay with waiting for the rest of the game to be presented to me before I decide what MUST and MUST NOT be in it.

Edited January 20 by Superfluous J

[PDCWolf]

3 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

I am also not really educated on that either, but one obvious example was KSP1. We had a placeholder atmosphere until actual release, and science got a big uptick after that (in dlc sadly). Every part went from looking like tin cans to looking like a space program. The VAB got massive upgrades over time with new features, etc etc etc.

However that's not what I'm talking about here.

I think Comm net is basically done, in feature set. Sure we'll probably get tweaks and maybe a new part or two for interstellar comms, but the need for relays and comm sats - I think - is not coming.

What you should be waiting for before you make up your mind if the game is ruined by this or not, is for the stuff you've not seen at all yet. Colonies and resource management and interstellar travel could make you realize that the whole relay satellite thing is "so KSP1" and you're glad you don't need to bother.

Now I, Personally would like to require relay satellites but JUST for when a planet/moon is in the way, but I'm guardedly cool with not ever having it, and 100% okay with waiting for the rest of the game to be presented to me before I decide what MUST and MUST NOT be in it.

The atmosphere changes in KSP1... It wasn't a placeholder, it took a lot of threads consistently appearing and FAR becoming the most popular mod (after mechjeb I think) for them to realize they had done something wrong. As for evaluating the change itself, the most extensive part was probably having to go through the whole part catalog to fix lift and drag values for the new formulas, and going from single value drag to a precalculated orientation and occlusion system (probably the biggest part).

I wouldn't say the changes are "big" to do, it is their impact that definitely was. Also most of the brunt of the work was precisely caused by them refusing to have a proper atmosphere until so far in the development cycle.

[BlackholeKS]

I am unconvinced that implementing a basic version of commnet occlusion which just calculates relay graphs based on line of sight with sphere occlusion and draws some lines on the screen would be an infeasibly complex addition for a subsequent patch. I'm pretty sure that there's a mod that already does this and the underlying math/implementation would not be overly complex - I've coded similar systems myself in the past and presumably Intercept has a whole team of programmers.

If they want to further extend and iterate on that system, that's great! But it'd appreciate having at least the basic version of the KSP1 feature present first.

[Stewcooker]

Really glad the science experiment bug is fixed. When I encountered it in the game I thought: "Really? No one thought to write a check to see if an experiment had been done?"

Also, is it a bug or a missing feature? Bugs are usually intermittent, but from what I understand this happened to everyone all the time, which would make it more of a missing feature. 

[Superfluous J]

1 minute ago, Stewcooker said:

Also, is it a bug or a missing feature? Bugs are usually intermittent, but from what I understand this happened to everyone all the time, which would make it more of a missing feature. 

It's a bug. Bugs are the software not functioning as the developers intended it to, while missing features are either something the programmers don't want (but the users do), or didn't include yet due to some constraint (usually time)

Examples of missing features would be Commnet (which the developers thing is fine but many users want) and Colonies (which the developers want but haven't had time to complete yet)

[fengyuan0529]

Hello! Does anyone still experience this issue in the latest version? “Not slowing down on reentry”. I found that it should be fixed a long time ago, but my capsule still doesn’t have proper drag during reentry and hitting the ground with ~2km/s(or bouncing off in lower atmosphere with phantom lift), it is a perfectly normal design and from a perfectly normal orbit. What’s happening?

Not slowing down on reentry

[The Space Peacock]

10 hours ago, fengyuan0529 said:

Hello! Does anyone still experience this issue in the latest version? “Not slowing down on reentry”. I found that it should be fixed a long time ago, but my capsule still doesn’t have proper drag during reentry and hitting the ground with ~2km/s(or bouncing off in lower atmosphere with phantom lift), it is a perfectly normal design and from a perfectly normal orbit. What’s happening?

could be this bug: 

 

 

[Fizzlebop Smith]

On 1/15/2024 at 3:00 PM, Sluggo said:

This is my biggest concern. I feel that for far too many people, KSP is "Hahahaha, space frogs go boom". To appeal to this part of the fanbase, they are more likely than not going to "streamline" the hardcore parts of the game that made it unique, and turn it into, as someone above said, a "Satisfactory-eque resource manager"

This encompasses the root of my fears as well.

I truly get my kicks from the space agency management aspect of KSP1.

I enjoyed juggling the missions and upgrading the facilities. I thought colonies would be a series of Extra Kerbolar Facilites that can be placed elsewhere.
Have a few modules and skins for each building design with some anchor nodes for EVA construction.

I wanted to have missions specialists that were better at prospecting, engineers required to oversee orbital constructions, most of all I want missions to facilitate my playstyle.

Missions currently are nothing more than a railroad to the stars. No organic progression, no player agency, immersion, or logical steps of progression... there could be 20 missions you have to complete before going to duna.
The tutorials should be the Simplified hands on explanation for those having hard times with the 'missions'


There is not enough capability to acquire early science outside of the mission progression.
I want to have faith that this game will be all i want it to be.

I want colonies, and interstellar to be more opportunities to manage my many kerbolar activities that are all related to various silly missions that i "Choose" to take on.
I really hope the missions are to teach the game with the milestone contracts of old. I also seriously hope there is eventually, and endless play loop tied to missions.

I am glad to see people being a bit more vocal about this topic. (This contentious View of needed features)
Often it degenerates to

"Man this would make the game so much better"
No that is dumb

Enough of the "this would be better" are starting to group around certain topics.
Download Commnext .. post the metrics of Downloads on the forum

Make a Best mods showcase post and Ping Dakota. Once enough people conflict with their vision.. they may .. just may be willing to listen


I also do not mind waiting until the game is complete. I didn't discover KSP1 until a little over a year ago and still have miles of fun to get out of it. I just hope that it remains a game with "no wrong way" to play and i can play at my own pace once more game is complete, I want to build relays and planes, submersibles and station or two before i go to duna. However, if i really want to focus on the structural & connection components over the next big lifter... I will forever be locked out of the rest of the system.

I am ever greatful to the wonderful modders that have contributed so much to the game. They are the ones that will give KSP2 the longevity of the first. Hope is not lost, fret not bc there are other people that want the same exact thing as me.. or you. Eventually it will be brought to us, even if by a 3rd party.

Edited March 7 by Fizzlebop Smith

[KincaidFrankMF]

On 3/7/2024 at 2:16 AM, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I am ever greatful to the wonderful modders that have contributed so much to the game. They are the ones that will give KSP2 the longevity of the first. Hope is not lost, fret not bc there are other people that want the same exact thing as me.. or you. Eventually it will be brought to us, even if by a 3rd party.

That's the thing... As long as the game is designed with flexibility in mind, modders can add/recreate different ways to play, such as the old random KSP1 missions. Some people loved those, some hated them for being silly & grindy. I enjoyed the old & the new, personally, in different ways.

I do really miss having part count and cash limits at the start of the game. Right now KSP2 is ridiculously easy early on. Hopefully resources will fix that, if not... someone will mod it eventually, I'm sure.