K.E.R.B. Report Update

[The Aziz]

59 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

there needs to be 4 cm's and 1 always working on leaks

Tell that to upper managements who treat community team members like non-essential workers. They're on the first line to be laid off. Chances for FOUR, when the team working on the game itself has probably less than 50, are none.

Also, lol, leaks. Leaks are more often than not NDA breaches. Sneakpeeks are planned.

[Brody.mack]

19 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Honestly it was already noticeable in the last one. 17 out of 20 bugs didn't change their status compared to previous one. With monthly updates there's a higher chance that they will.

I hope that this shift to development-heavy rather than bug-heavy will mean we get more communication on the development of future updates. Before now, bugs were the priority and we were kept mostly in the loop about their status, I hope they plan on replacing that communication with communication about colonies. As said in the post above, there wasn't a lot of progress in the bugs, hoping that there is tons of progress in other areas.

[PDCWolf]

1 hour ago, Stephensan said:

i just simply think there is to FEW CM's, even when the other one comes back i doubt it be enough for leaks and for them to not like, melt due to amount of work

 

there needs to be 4 cm's and 1 always working on leaks

This is the only project I've heard of that people feel needs more CMs. They don't even engage in moderation duty nor are they too public other than random tidbits on the Discord. This is just work not being done, not short-handedness. Sadly it seems to be the case for the game too:

• Bi-weekly KERB failed multiple times.
• They stopped giving certain dates because they failed multiple times.
• They stopped upnates because they failed to understand basic interaction rules and what the community wants to hear from them.
• They announced their new devblog system with videos and what not and we got... 1 deep dive, 2 interviews... and that was it, months ago.

We as a community wanting to engage with an EA need to see plans, specs, designs, ideas, a smidge of compromise (as in being invested in the realization of your promises, not as in tradeoff) both with a vision and the steps required for its execution. Instead what we get is the inability to even make a list of 20 bugs every 2 weeks, let alone knowing anything else about the plans for the game. That's not even going, as other users have, into how feedback that's not bugs just goes into a dark hole, if it goes anywhere.

Aaaaaand that's not even going into actual stuff relating to the development of the game. It's incredible to me people are still here.

4 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Tell that to upper managements who treat community team members like non-essential workers. They're on the first line to be laid off. Chances for FOUR, when the team working on the game itself has probably less than 50, are none.

Remember when they laid off the whole community team after the paul furio fiasco? oh wait, the community team wasn't affected at all. Plus, it's not really the place to talk about the huge work of the community team when they're just announcing they can't do a single post every two weeks.

[Stephensan]

23 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Tell that to upper managements who treat community team members like non-essential workers. They're on the first line to be laid off. Chances for FOUR, when the team working on the game itself has probably less than 50, are none.

Also, lol, leaks. Leaks are more often than not NDA breaches. Sneakpeeks are planned.

leeks, sneak leaks, teasing, sneak peaks is all the same in the war of lacking sneakpeaks

upper management doesn't understand if you remove your "voice" and your public presence the only word of mouth is the users.

and if users aren't happy, its a spiral.

[Spicat]

10 hours ago, Kerb_ said:

I dunno, looks to me like it's been monthly. 

  Hide contents

The pinned Bug Status post on the forums is still from February, too. I know some people are worried that this is a bad sign for future development, but the hard truth is that this seems to be business as usual, and if anything is just them being more honest with us

I made a full list of all the KERB and if they were late/early. The "When KERB is supposed to drop" is based on the strict rule that was given being: KERB every 2 weeks, apart if there is an update in between resetting the 2 weeks counter (And KERB releasing only on Friday).

When the KERB was late or early, I also reset the counter (but this is not part of the rule given).

 

I tried to find the justification for each delay.

[Stephensan]

16 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

This is the only project I've heard of that people feel needs more CMs. They don't even engage in moderation duty nor are they too public other than random tidbits on the Discord. This is just work not being done, not short-handedness. Sadly it seems to be the case for the game too:

• Bi-weekly KERB failed multiple times.
• They stopped giving certain dates because they failed multiple times.
• They stopped upnates because they failed to understand basic interaction rules and what the community wants to hear from them.
• They announced their new devblog system with videos and what not and we got... 1 deep dive, 2 interviews... and that was it, months ago.

We as a community wanting to engage with an EA need to see plans, specs, designs, ideas, a smidge of compromise (as in being invested in the realization of your promises, not as in tradeoff) both with a vision and the steps required for its execution. Instead what we get is the inability to even make a list of 20 bugs every 2 weeks, let alone knowing anything else about the plans for the game. That's not even going, as other users have, into how feedback that's not bugs just goes into a dark hole, if it goes anywhere.

Aaaaaand that's not even going into actual stuff relating to the development of the game. It's incredible to me people are still here.

Remember when they laid off the whole community team after the paul furio fiasco? oh wait, the community team wasn't affected at all. Plus, it's not really the place to talk about the huge work of the community team when they're just announcing they can't do a single post every two weeks.

Said this in another post, but it boils down to,

at least one person is working within the IG team gathering information, like dakota and mike, one will help more towards the community, a third new user to help stretch across more platforms, and a fourth deep in early builds doing sneakpeaks and leeks.

we only have one doing all, and soon again about to be two, two isn't enough people to do everyone internally and externally in the team, and across all platforms.. 

 

[calabus2]

I would rather all community managers just go away and we have a very visible public project tracking list much like Subnautica did. You see every bug report and a priority assigned to it. You see at what stage each bug or project is at. It's pretty simple. Only one CM is needed to field concerns about the timeline or the progress. 

[dlrk]

"The K.E.R.B. has acted as one source of truth for many of you and we know that this probably feels like us taking away another source of information about KSP2's future."

Now, I know it feels like we're refusing to communicate properly. Anyway.

C'mon, really?

 

[Icegrx]

Seems both development and communication is devolving. This is not the direction you should be going. 

[Astroneer08]

Also, with more time in between KERBs, we get more quality, AND colonies might release a bit faster.

No downsides here 

Edited March 24 by Astroneer08

[Flush Foot]

2 minutes ago, Astroneer08 said:

No downsides here 

/s

^^  Missed that one critical tag on your post

[Astroneer08]

Just now, Flush Foot said:

/s

^^  Missed that one critical tag on your post

Nice

Edited March 24 by Astroneer08
typo

[Fizzlebop Smith]

We were used to weekly updates? I Am going to take the bright sunshine with roses side of this and say it's for the better.

We have yet to get consistent bi-weekly KERB updates and this is more in line with what has been provided if not what was promised.

The KERB isn't really the root of my concern regarding [lack of] communication. This is supposed to be EA where there are feedback-rounds regarding feature / content additions. Not just on bug priority assignment.
The way that I have been directed to give feedback is through a series of in game directions.

A lot of games have done this, but we haven't seen major feedback result with changes in anything about "for science".
No posts about "overwhelming feedback related to occlusion has prompted us to reevaluate things." Instead, it's something that's not important at this time.

The maneuver UI and mechanics are in a state that i feel we should be seeing changes with feedback. How do you like this new addition? Oh no.. well lets try again.
Instead its something to look at later.

So many people in this thread and the "what communication" have been spot on. One of the things i was most excited about For Science was a chance to provide feedback.
This is EA after all. Every drop of feedback i attempted to offer in the beginning was rebuked by various members of the community.

Exploration was supposed to be a combination of the best parts of Science & Career. Essentially replacing both. While it laid the foundation for something cool, it fell far short when held to the combined standards of both those previous play modes. 

KSP1 Missions were all mods (Ok .. they propelled an endless game loop to keep people busy crunching science while waiting)
Mission Specialists were Stupid (Try to Pack a Chute without One - or pick up the right lunar rock for hydrogen sampling)
Funds were Broken (Replacements then)
Time Warp is by Far too Restrictive (Ever dip too low on flyby pass?)

Im not talking about bug fixes
I know bugs deserve attention. But it felt like there was no real desire for feedback to instigate change. If it was feedback for features and content that was unpopular, the community would silence them.
"KSP2 is better, you're playing it wrong, ... be patient the devs are doing a great job" 

I am not disputing the amazing job that is being done.

I am disputing the EA nature of the title. I think there is an expectation with EA that the community will have a voice on more than just bug fixes and we do not. It brings to mind the old idiom here "Is easier to ask forgiveness then permission"

The developers may have every intention of communication with us the community. During the early days of Every triple AAA launch, they advertise with sneak peaks, content reveals, 'leaking' content'.. giving streamers a preview and actively doing interviews / blogs. 

I however, have stopped believing that the open communication and back and forth with traditional EA titles was never the intention. I feel there is a very very clear vision of what KSP2 will be and there is very little room to deviate from that vision.

It will be KSP lite. That is not at all what i was hoping, but i will make do with what i get. KSP1 is only as amazing as it is because of mods. KSP2 will be just as great. I can wait another 5 years.

 

Edited March 24 by Fizzlebop Smith

[Mitokandria]

10 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

[snip]

The KERB isn't really the root of my concern regarding [lack of] communication. This is supposed to be EA where there are feedback-rounds regarding feature / content additions. Not just on bug priority assignment.
The way that I have been directed to give feedback is through a series of in game directions.

[snip]

So many people in this thread and the "what communication" have been spot on. One of the things i was most excited about For Science was a chance to provide feedback.
This is EA after all. Every drop of feedback i attempted to offer in the beginning was rebuked by various members of the community.

[Snip]

It will be KSP lite. [Snip]

 

I couldn't put into words my feelings seeing this announcement myself, but this kinda sums up my feelings quite nicely.

Credit where credit is due though they did address one feedback item with the UI recently. Mostly the colouring of orbital markers and some icon changes.

[KerbalabreK]

It's great to hear the news for the next update!

Still, bugs are still disturbing and I hope the devs are definitely going to solve them 

[moeggz]

16 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I am disputing the EA nature of the title. I think there is an expectation with EA that the community will have a voice on more than just bug fixes and we do not

 

16 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I however, have stopped believing that the open communication and back and forth with traditional EA titles was [ever] the intention. I feel there is a very very clear vision of what KSP2 will be and there is very little room to deviate from that vision.

It will be KSP lite.

Succinct. If the devs read anything in this thread I hope it’s what you said there.

Not only are we upset about the lack of two way communication, we are very worried that the track of the game so far has just been to simplify.

[uglyduckling81]

5 hours ago, moeggz said:

 

Succinct. If the devs read anything in this thread I hope it’s what you said there.

Not only are we upset about the lack of two way communication, we are very worried that the track of the game so far has just been to simplify.

I don't see anything being simplified. I just see a lot missing features. Nothing in the gameplay so far is easier due to simplification that I can see. I'd say the game as a whole is harder to play because it is so barebones and featureless.

I'd say based on what I've seen so far is the game is aiming to be a slightly better looking KSP1 with a slightly bigger scope of play options. None of which have been realised besides slightly better graphics.

I'd say that the entirety of KSP2 could of been an expansion pack which introduced a second star system and a colony builder system, plus a graphics overhaul. Perhaps using Blackracks Visual Mods as an example.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

1 hour ago, uglyduckling81 said:

I don't see anything being simplified. I just see a lot missing features. Nothing in the gameplay so far is easier due to simplification that I can see. I'd say the game as a whole is harder to play because it is so barebones and featureless.

I'd say based on what I've seen so far is the game is aiming to be a slightly better looking KSP1 with a slightly bigger scope of play options. None of which have been realised besides slightly better graphics.

I'd say that the entirety of KSP2 could of been an expansion pack which introduced a second star system and a colony builder system, plus a graphics overhaul. Perhaps using Blackracks Visual Mods as an example.

Expansions add to what is already there. Without being argumentative, please reconsider your choice of vocabulary. There is no complete gameplay loop to KSP2, not for those of use that play career mode.
I feel when it is done, it still will not be an expansion.. but something else entirely.

As far as the simplifications:

They have said that omitting occlusion from the game was a choice. They may revisit that at a later time, but [it was not implemented from the very beginning because they wanted it to be easier to have communication with far out craft]. One per system is all you should really need to talk to all the cosmos, right?


The entire idea of Commnet was abandoned as an unnecessary complication. Perhaps exitc alloys will be relegated to nice shiny scatters [nodes] with collision mechanics. Im sure the pretty visuals will go over well with the kids. You can mine it like all the other survival crafters.


Not being able to create maneuver nodes in another SOI is definitely a simplification over a feature already implemented and well established in KSP1
(Whether the wish to change that later due to feedback remains to be seen)

The maneuver node itself used to split the burn time in a manner that felt more intuitive. I do not know advance math related to this, but all the math i do daily with circles involves ratios related to the arc.
It feels simpler.  

There is no longer fuel priority assignment
No longer mission specialists
No longer experiments that require physical interaction during EVA

The proposed colony design will be like craftin in Planet Crafter or Subnautica instead of the way people have spent up to 15 years building colonies?

[Instead of having to Scan for ores with polar arrays, build complex SSRUs, develop solid engineering designs to connect orbital structures]...

Granted some of this was mod function. But it was built around the core mechanics of the base game in such away to enhance. 


I really want to say something to all the people that keep saying .. "KSP1 didn't have that, that was a mod"

The developers may not consider mods when evaluating what they want to replicate from the first.

Considering Adderly's history that is asanine. Perhaps he only considers the mods he wrote to have enough significant meritory value to include into KSP2

From a community stance.
The mods HAVE to be considered by the developement team...  They have kept this game alive long after release.

I want to figure out a series of polls to determine the length of time people have played the game, and if they use mods. The question becomes which mod features from KSP1 should be included in the BASE game. This is before the massive roadmap that included features we could only dream of without modded support.



[My own deductions lens through perspective]

Edited March 25 by Fizzlebop Smith

[Flush Foot]

7 minutes ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

refusing to include time to apoapsis

Not sure I follow you here… Doesn’t the game / UI show time to Ap/Pe in the flight-widget? (Bottom-left) Also when hovering on/pinning Ap?

Granted (and I have rented on this) the Widget one doesn’t necessarily show enough detail/numbers, but it’s “there”.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

[BEEP] Data Corrupted...

 

Edited March 25 by Fizzlebop Smith

[Fizzlebop Smith]

13 minutes ago, Flush Foot said:

Not sure I follow you here… Doesn’t the game / UI show time to Ap/Pe in the flight-widget? (Bottom-left) Also when hovering on/pinning Ap?

Granted (and I have rented on this) the Widget one doesn’t necessarily show enough detail/numbers, but it’s “there”.

Yes. You are correct. I have edited my comment above to reflect my corrected ignorance.

After completing all but a few of more difficult missions, I cannot believe i overlooked it so long. After 1500 hours in the two years ive had KSP1 i kept looking in all the wrong places.
I appreciate you bringing this to my attention in a respectful way. Thank you.. this greatly assist my gravity turning.

[Flush Foot]

7 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention in a respectful way

Well… it’s not like this is Reddit or anything  

[AtomicTech]

On 3/22/2024 at 4:39 PM, Dakota said:

Hi all,

When we first released the K.E.R.B. we talked a good deal about how it was to be an experimental project - wanting to iterate and improve the usefulness both to the internal team and to you all over time.

Being so focused on Colonies development, the team has decided to move K.E.R.B. reports, for now, to a monthly cadence instead of the biweekly you've been used to.

Post any release the K.E.R.B. has been incredibly useful for helping us identify top issues and steer our bug fixing priorities, while also communicating about those issues that mean so much to you all. We may return or change to a different cadence in the future, but this is what we believe is best for now.

The K.E.R.B. has acted as one source of truth for many of you and we know that this probably feels like us taking away another source of information about KSP2's future. As we move into Spring here in Seattle, we will be sharing more about Colonies' development progress, bugfixes, and potentially some other things you can look forward to.

o7

Dakota

11 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

They have said that omitting occlusion from the game was a choice. They may revisit that at a later time, but [it was not implemented from the very beginning because they wanted it to be easier to have communication with far out craft]. One per system is all you should really need to talk to all the cosmos, right?

WHAT THE HECK!?

Nononononono

Source?

[AtomicTech]

I'm bummed because I really loved the challenges of the comnet. It was a weird highlight of KSP for me.

[Flush Foot]

On 3/22/2024 at 6:09 PM, Dakota said:

At an undecided date in April

I vote April 2... first non-holiday in April