EvelynThe Dragon Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 10 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: You responded to my post by saying: So I'm not accusing you of something you didn't do. You responded to me with this, and I'm telling you I didn't say anything about massive amounts of bug fixes. If your response was not meant in the way it read, it is on you to clarify. No, it's on you to understand the history of this game. I have no time for intellectual laziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCWolf Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 8 hours ago, Superfluous J said: Like I said elsewhere, people don't want communication. They never did. People want to be told what they want to hear, and they want that to also be the truth. Anything less will be met like this. I hope they keep communicating in spite of it. I less and less make the mistake of reading the comments after these kinds of posts, but do enjoy reading the first post still. 7 hours ago, The Aziz said: People: we want communication!!! Devs: okay so here's some info we have P: But we wanted dates :((((((( D: We don't have any dates yet. P: Then why are you communicating :(((((( D: Cuz you asked. Love how it's always either the strawman or the hyperbole with these "arguments". Specially now there's a thread that delineates exactly what people want, and in spite of that thread is that this post shows up, not thanks to that thread. It's been 4 months since science, and they still don't have a date for the next bugfix, let alone the second, much less a system they've been talking about since release which is colonies. People want to know what's their vision, what's their timeframes, and why some things are the way they are. Instead we get this post and it's somehow the fault of the people asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 3 minutes ago, EvelynThe Dragon said: No, it's on you to understand the history of this game. I have no time for intellectual laziness. No, it is on you to say what you mean. Don't respond to me with something I never mentioned and act like its my fault. If you don't want me to think you are telling me that, then don't say it in the first place. The onus is on you to be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvelynThe Dragon Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Just now, PDCWolf said: It's been 4 months since science, and they still don't have a date for the next bugfix, let alone the second, much less a system they've been talking about since release which is colonies. People want to know what's their vision, what's their timeframes, and why some things are the way they are. Instead we get this post and it's somehow the fault of the people asking. Yes. That. It seems like they (the development leaders) are afraid to commit to anything and afraid of backlash to anything they say. (As an aside...) And we also get people who can't understand context and the history here whining how somebody is picking on them when that's not what happened. This forum REALLY needs a block user feature. Ignore doesn't cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCWolf Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 3 minutes ago, EvelynThe Dragon said: Yes. That. It seems like they (the development leaders) are afraid to commit to anything and afraid of backlash to anything they say. (As an aside...) And we also get people who can't understand context and the history here whining how somebody is picking on them when that's not what happened. This forum REALLY needs a block user feature. Ignore doesn't cut it. "Afraid to commit" has been the motto of this project. Never a date unless it's 2 weeks out, or they compromise heavily on the state of release. Never a proper exposition of a plan, always bits and pieces. Never a full list of fixes until patch day. Never a proper back and forth, just puddle depth questions answered. Conversely, they get no sales, no traction, no media exposure, no concurrent players, and nothing but hate everywhere but the places they can actively moderate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvelynThe Dragon Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 9 minutes ago, PDCWolf said: "Afraid to commit" has been the motto of this project. Never a date unless it's 2 weeks out, or they compromise heavily on the state of release. Never a proper exposition of a plan, always bits and pieces. Never a full list of fixes until patch day. Never a proper back and forth, just puddle depth questions answered. Conversely, they get no sales, no traction, no media exposure, no concurrent players, and nothing but hate everywhere but the places they can actively moderate. I was being nice. Sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 4 hours ago, PDCWolf said: Never a date unless it's 2 weeks out, or they compromise heavily on the state of release. Never a proper exposition of a plan, always bits and pieces. Never a full list of fixes until patch day. Sounds like normal thing for few dozens of games I follow. A patch is not a game release loudly announced half a year before it goes live (which imo is a stupid tactic, as a long history of terrible quality releases prove, when devs simply ran out of time to polish their product because the publisher demanded a very specific date long before they could tell if it's possible to achieve) 4 hours ago, PDCWolf said: Conversely, they get no sales, no traction, no media exposure, no concurrent players, and nothing but hate everywhere but the places they can actively moderate For minor patches? Yep, that's never a surprise, there's no point for a marketing campaign for a set of bugfixes and minor QoL. For milestone updates, I almost hope you didn't forget the several weeks before FS!. And who would've guessed, the numbers went up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCWolf Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 7 hours ago, The Aziz said: Sounds like normal thing for few dozens of games I follow. A patch is not a game release loudly announced half a year before it goes live (which imo is a stupid tactic, as a long history of terrible quality releases prove, when devs simply ran out of time to polish their product because the publisher demanded a very specific date long before they could tell if it's possible to achieve) Ah yes, the bad publisher strawman, specially useless when we talk about a product that got a free pass to delay for 4 years and turn from a complete release into barely working early access. 7 hours ago, The Aziz said: For minor patches? Yep, that's never a surprise, there's no point for a marketing campaign for a set of bugfixes and minor QoL. For milestone updates, I almost hope you didn't forget the several weeks before FS!. And who would've guessed, the numbers went up. For Science! was a minor patch confirmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Hand Rocket Science Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Well, this aged like fine milk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayneCloud Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Just, a reminder, that you come in to work every day thinking it'll be like the day before in this industry, until it isn't, and more often than not... not even senior leadership sees something like this from the parent company coming. So, they fully intended all of this for us, but, here we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 29 minutes ago, RayneCloud said: Just, a reminder, that you come in to work every day thinking it'll be like the day before in this industry, until it isn't, and more often than not... not even senior leadership sees something like this from the parent company coming. So, they fully intended all of this for us, but, here we are. I get not getting a statement from the company at this point; they are probably trying to get it legally correct, as well as (potentially) trying to figure out what to do with the IP. I also get no statement from the CM's; they only give us what they are told to give us. What I don't get is the lack of the forum moderators - Vanamonde, Gargamel, et al - not jumping into some of these threads and calming people down. I don't mean them giving official statements, but helping to put out some of the emotional fires springing up. That's just...odd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegboard Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 17 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: I get not getting a statement from the company at this point; they are probably trying to get it legally correct, as well as (potentially) trying to figure out what to do with the IP. I also get no statement from the CM's; they only give us what they are told to give us. What I don't get is the lack of the forum moderators - Vanamonde, Gargamel, et al - not jumping into some of these threads and calming people down. I don't mean them giving official statements, but helping to put out some of the emotional fires springing up. That's just...odd? What's to be said, honestly? They probably don't know much more than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 3 minutes ago, Pegboard said: What's to be said, honestly? They probably don't know much more than we do. Re-read what I wrote. I stated "I don't mean them not giving official statements, but helping to put out some of the emotional fires". As in, coming into threads and reminding people to be civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said: What I don't get is the lack of the forum moderators - Vanamonde, Gargamel, et al - not jumping into some of these threads and calming people down. Firstly, we have day jobs and other commitments and are not online all the time. And secondly, we are not paid staff and don't know any more than forum members do at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 3 minutes ago, Vanamonde said: And secondly, we are not paid staff and don't know any more than forum members do at this time. And once again, thats not what I meant. Tempers are flaring, personal insults are being thrown around. I'm wondering why you guys haven't stepped in yet to calm that down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechBFP Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said: And once again, thats not what I meant. Tempers are flaring, personal insults are being thrown around. I'm wondering why you guys haven't stepped in yet to calm that down. Maybe that day job he mentioned? Yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said: And once again, thats not what I meant. Tempers are flaring, personal insults are being thrown around. I'm wondering why you guys haven't stepped in yet to calm that down. Yeah delete posts and lock threads I'm sure that will calm people down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrutalRIP Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Ooh those clouds in OP look like ksp2 on its way to heaven ....hope I'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaypeg Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 On 5/1/2024 at 4:49 AM, Scarecrow71 said: How so? If the entire team comes together to fix the bugs, then the entire team can get to work on coding enhancements. And as I stated before, you shouldn't be working on or pushing enhancements when the core product isn't working. KSP2 is playable to an extent. But why focus on something that's multiple patches away when the work can be put to better use getting the foundation right? As an example, let's use the dV calculation bug. Say we have part of the dev team working on this, and part of the dev team working on interstellar. Anything the interstellar team does regarding dV for trips is for naught until the dV bug is fixed. Same with colonies and the need to establish resource routes. You cannot plan anything effectively until that bug is fixed, so why not have all of these guys - who are all very smart coders, by the way - working together to fix the foundational bug first? people are specialized in game dev. At a point getting modelling/animation people to bugfix will do more harm than good. 1 hour ago, BrutalRIP said: Ooh those clouds in OP look like ksp2 on its way to heaven ....hope I'm wrong Looks like a different company will get development. Hoping thatll be a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 3 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said: And once again, thats not what I meant. Tempers are flaring, personal insults are being thrown around. I'm wondering why you guys haven't stepped in yet to calm that down. Oh, I don't know... "Firstly, we have day jobs and other commitments and are not online all the time." If you asked them why they won't step in, and they answer with exactly what makes it difficult to step in immediately, and that's not even what you meant, what did you mean? What are you still wondering about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flush Foot Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: Oh, I don't know... "Firstly, we have day jobs and other commitments and are not online all the time." If you asked them why they won't step in, and they answer with exactly what makes it difficult to step in immediately, and that's not even what you meant, what did you mean? What are you still wondering about? Vanamode’s response also mentioned “we don’t have any more information/answers than you guys” while @Scarecrow71’s secondary (if not actually primary) point was asking mods ‘why no damage control re: tempers flaring?’ (Though I do agree that “busy with our real/paying jobs” at least partly addressed both points) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 30 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: Oh, I don't know... "Firstly, we have day jobs and other commitments and are not online all the time." If you asked them why they won't step in, and they answer with exactly what makes it difficult to step in immediately, and that's not even what you meant, what did you mean? What are you still wondering about? Because multiple people, including Vanamonde, made comments about how they don't have any information about what is going on any more than the rest of us do. And that was not what I asked. I didn't ask the mods to explain what was going on, but rather to deal with the insults and emotions like they do every other damned day of the year. THAT is what I was asking. People seem to think for some reason today that I'm out of line, or that I'm not comprehending stuff, or that I'm intentionally being difficult. Instead of doing what you did, which was ask me for clarification. And I don't understand why the community seems to want to treat me as the whipping post today. Several minor questions could have gotten far better answers out of me as opposed to the harassment that I had to ask the mods to step in and deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Can we take the discussion back to the subject of the thread, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayneCloud Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 4 hours ago, Vanamonde said: Can we take the discussion back to the subject of the thread, please? With respect Vanamonde, how do we do that, knowing that the topic of this thread, is no longer (and may never be) relevant? There's not going to be any new patches coming, let alone with what was promised, for quite some time, until the former staff is absorbed in to PD (if they are) or if some how they manage to sell the IP (they wont) to someone else. We're going to be sitting here wondering for a lot longer than we have been for the last 4 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanlock Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I'm incredibly sad for the project, for this beautiful game and tool and for all the people loosing their jobs because of greedy corp "optimizing" their revenues. I wish good luck to everyone at Intercept. I Really hope the entire Kerbal IP is not locked down in the hands of Take² ... I hope BlackRack's work can be shared with the modding community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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