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Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

NathanKell

By NathanKell
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Bornholio

Bornholio

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, hypervelocity said:

 re the resurfacing of the boiloff issue - is anyone knowledgeable of the current state of technology regarding this matter? is it *realistic* to plainly remove bolioff as @winged explains in his post, or would it be advisable for realism's sake to try and reduce WallConduction & InsulationConduction to very low levels?

I mean, I am mostly certain H2 lossless storage can be achieved here on Earth - what would be the electric charge consuption and/or extra mass penalty one could devise to realistically simulate tanks for spacecraft?

Use radiatiors or better yet starwasters cryo heat pump mod. Either way when higher warp kicks in the change in calculation messes them up and temps get to high for tanks to not boiloff.  Newer releases for real fuels and proc tanks also introduce variable insulation but its a work in progress.  Using methane nukes is a good way to get slightly better than hydrolox dV and have much higher critical temps

DRA 5.0 Summary the last big analysis of Mars transit describes what is available now, high layer count MLI and brayton cycle cryocoolers run by waste heat from a peewee class (500MW) BNTR would make continuous storage of hydrogen possible. Winged has a great video doing a good job showing a similar mars mission. more recent update

I put a set of drives based on all the real world NTR's into git for RO.  But generally using the BNTR is a good fallback choice as its similar to the conservative design chosen by DRA5.0

Current knowledge of long term bio gained from Kelly's long term stay shows that it is unreasonable to make any trip to mars without artificial gravity, generally a spun ship. NTR drives enable the fast transits needed to keep lifetime radiation level below critical points. A large amounts of power are needed to enable a real safe trip.

I personally like doing ISRU to mars using RealISRU and methane/methalox drives with a mid L/D entry and propulsive landing.

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hypervelocity

hypervelocity

Posted
Posted

thanks for the detailed answer @Bornholio, it is greatly appreciated!

I am using starwaster's mod - I tested a PP Cryo Tank with roughly 120k lts of LqdHydrogen (roughly what is required for a 10 ton payload trans-lunar injection by a J-2 powered stage) and total boiloff occured at 17 days if I recalll correctly & my installation is working fine. That's good for cislunar operations but not for interplanetary.

The paper regarding the state of the art is very interesting and I am going through it these days, thanks for that!

I think my idea of getting water > H2 O2 > hydrolox from the Moon will shift to Mars methane ISRU.

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Jaeleth

Jaeleth

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi.

I am having quite some trouble figuring out how TAC Life Support Works in RO and have been running in circles for 2 weeks or so... So, if anyone can help, I would appreciate.

I tested various configurations and what appears to be happening is:

 

1. Sabatier does nothing, nothing at all. It does not consumes CO2 and does not produces H2O

2. Water purifiers seem to GENERATE water, you see, if I start with 2 kerbals, some water and 3 purifiers, I end up consuming food, O2 (of course) and with MORE clean water than the amount I started with.

3. Air filter does nothing... NADA... niente :P

4. water splitter does the electrolysis, as it should, curiously, when coupled with water filters, since they "create" water, they allow for a small storage tank provide O2 and H2O for a very looooong time :D

5. Bosch reactor seems to be "sort of" working... As for the outputs, that is, it does not consumes CO2.

6. The only ones who seem to be doing what they would do in real life (besides the water splitters) are the 3 scrubbers (Peroxide, Hydroxide and Superoxide)

 

Can anyone explain how the whole TAC-RO Works or if it is working properly at all or still under development.

 

The non-RO sabatier Works just fine, maybe too well... If I couple one non-RO sabatier with 3 RO water purifiers (small size) I have water and oxygen until the end of times, (for 2 kerbals), only food is not fully regenerated

 

Edited by Jaeleth
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winged

winged

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10.12.2017 at 9:49 PM, Jaeleth said:

2. Water purifiers seem to GENERATE water, you see, if I start with 2 kerbals, some water and 3 purifiers, I end up consuming food, O2 (of course) and with MORE clean water than the amount I started with.

I can confirm that. I've started my 6-year voyage with 3 Kerbals and water purifiers rated for 4 people. I've quickly realized that I was producing more water than they were consuming. 

Some parts work so strange that I would not be surprised if they could transform water into wine. :wink:

Edited by winged
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Nightside

Nightside

Posted
Posted
On 12/11/2017 at 2:56 PM, winged said:

I can confirm that. I've started my 6-year voyage with 3 Kerbals and water purifiers rated for 4 people. I've quickly realized that I was producing more water than they were consuming. 

Some parts work so strange that I would not be surprised if they could transform water into wine. :wink:

It must be getting pretty humid in there!

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NotTheRealRMS

NotTheRealRMS

Posted
Posted (edited)

If you take a look at the RO TAC Life Support settings: 

@TACLSGlobalSettings:AFTER[TacLifeSupport]
{
	@FoodConsumptionRate = 6.77E-05
	@WaterConsumptionRate = 4.48E-05
	@OxygenConsumptionRate = 6.85E-03

	@CO2ProductionRate = 5.92E-03
	@WasteProductionRate = 6.16E-06
	@WasteWaterProductionRate = 5.70E-05
}

The mass of CO2ProductionRate(that number times its density as defined in its resource config, which is located in CRP) is smaller than the mass from OxygenConsumptionRate despite CO2 being denser. That means part of that oxygen consumed is not coming out as CO2. On the other hand the mass of waste water coming out is significantly larger than the mass of water being consumed. Those numbers are certainly grounded on real research on human metabolism, and they have interesting consequences.

In a hypothetical 100% efficiency closed loop life support system, it means that while more water will be produced from recycling waste water than what is being consumed, part of that water will have to be split into 2 H2 + O2 to keep the ratio between recycled life support resources equal, or eventually there will be a very large surplus of water while oxygen will run out, thus water recyclers generating more water may not be incorrect at all as long as the total mass of life support resources and wastes stays the same after the process(law of conservation of mass). It also means any simulated near or closed loop life support in TAC LS using the RO settings will need a water splitter.

Edited by NotTheRealRMS
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slaintemaith

slaintemaith

Posted
Posted

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but is there still a definitive RSS/RO/RSSVE install guide out there somewhere?  I distinctly remember having all of these playing well together in 1.2.2, and even had a MechJeb version with a PEGAS mode.
Now I'm trying to remember how to scrape it all together again...

 

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DC

DC

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, slaintemaith said:

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but is there still a definitive RSS/RO/RSSVE install guide out there somewhere?  I distinctly remember having all of these playing well together in 1.2.2, and even had a MechJeb version with a PEGAS mode.
Now I'm trying to remember how to scrape it all together again...

 

It all available on CKAN for 1.2.2, simple as that.

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Bornholio

Bornholio

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2018 at 9:24 AM, slaintemaith said:

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but is there still a definitive RSS/RO/RSSVE install guide out there somewhere?  I distinctly remember having all of these playing well together in 1.2.2, and even had a MechJeb version with a PEGAS mode.
Now I'm trying to remember how to scrape it all together again...

 

Sorry not really,  just first page, the main difficulty will be getting RSSVE working nicely. Installed straight up it will make weird color skys with dx11/ogl running.  As an Alternate some people have put up Dropbox links to a full gamedata folder. I'll scrounge for a link since mine are all messed up for dev.

Should work fine with a CKAN install, My preference is to install most things with that, then replace the RO/RP0 folders with master version or Dev from Git.  Lamonts Peg version i do the same, install everything via ckAN then replace the folder with his latest dev release.

Hopefully soon we will have 1.3.1 versions of everything out. have Egg (from Principia) and AWang pushing on it.  Looks like Mech Jeb will have a code base change soon, probably Lamont and Sarbian will work out the kinks and roll PEG changes in to release shortly.

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DrLicor

DrLicor

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, hypervelocity said:

you are quite right @DrLicor - and let me tell you, it looks absolutely gorgeous!

I'd love to share photos but I'm sadly at prison (work) now

Lol, that prison part causes me to read it two times haha.

But could you share some download links of the gamedata or K3SP when you're back, please? :)

(hypeddd)

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hypervelocity

hypervelocity

Posted
Posted
Just now, DrLicor said:

@hypervelocity, I was impatiently scrolling around in the KS3P thread, saw some reaction that is also works with 1.2.2 by itself. Did you recompile it or just some minor tweaks in the settings? 
I'm now downloading the newest version of KS3P to see if it works by itself. :) 

yeah no - sorry, I now understand that my original post read "a custom KS3P build" and that might have been missinterpreted as a personal re-compile of mine, but no. I just used the latest KS3P version and tweaked CFG's to my liking.

just go ahead and use the latest version - it will work! sorry for the confusion!

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DrLicor

DrLicor

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, hypervelocity said:

yeah no - sorry, I now understand that my original post read "a custom KS3P build" and that might have been missinterpreted as a personal re-compile of mine, but no. I just used the latest KS3P version and tweaked CFG's to my liking.

just go ahead and use the latest version - it will work! sorry for the confusion!

Oh never mind, not your fault. :) what changes have you done to make it look even better if I may ask. 

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hypervelocity

hypervelocity

Posted
Posted (edited)

I removed the vignette (why would I want any?) and vastly reduced the dirty lens effect - I can share my CFG with pleasure!

btw, we might be stepping a bit out of topic here with this (don't want to disrespect the RO topic), happy to follow up via PM :) 

Edited by hypervelocity
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