[WIP][1.9.x-1.12.x] Scatterer-atmospheric scattering (0.0838 - 14/08/2022) Scattering improvements, in-game atmo generation and multi-sun support

[stratvox]

3 hours ago, blackrack said:

Thank you, I have managed to fix the tsunami bug as well (thanks to @damonvv for his reproduction method), more testing is necessary to verify it's gone for good however

Hmm, if it doesn't appear on the recording then it looks like it's an issue with your system and not the game itself or the mod. I suggest downvolting or downclocking your GPU, setting a more agressive fan profile, or setting a framerate limit, and verifying if it holds better when temps are lower.

May also want to check out how dusty the heat sinks are on the video card... could be as simple as blowing some of it off with compressed air.

[Adamcor]

4 hours ago, blackrack said:

Thank you, I have managed to fix the tsunami bug as well (thanks to @damonvv for his reproduction method), more testing is necessary to verify it's gone for good however

Hmm, if it doesn't appear on the recording then it looks like it's an issue with your system and not the game itself or the mod. I suggest downvolting or downclocking your GPU, setting a more agressive fan profile, or setting a framerate limit, and verifying if it holds better when temps are lower.

 

40 minutes ago, stratvox said:

May also want to check out how dusty the heat sinks are on the video card... could be as simple as blowing some of it off with compressed air.

I've managed to get it working much better by changing a few settings. My GPU temp now sits between 60-70 while playing. This also stopped the screen flickering while using Scatterer. I'm beginning to notice this screen flickering problem occur more often when I pick up my laptop though. Maybe there is something wrong internally. I think I will go ahead and clean off the inside with some compressed air just in case.

 

Thanks for the support everyone!

[strudo76]

1 hour ago, Adamcor said:

I've managed to get it working much better by changing a few settings. My GPU temp now sits between 60-70 while playing. This also stopped the screen flickering while using Scatterer. I'm beginning to notice this screen flickering problem occur more often when I pick up my laptop though. Maybe there is something wrong internally. I think I will go ahead and clean off the inside with some compressed air just in case.

You can also try elevating the laptop so it's not sitting flat on the surface. Couple of bits of wood at each end does the trick. That way the underneath is clear for the air to move more heat away. Not exactly a comfortable to play on set up like that though.

[Adamcor]

19 hours ago, strudo76 said:

You can also try elevating the laptop so it's not sitting flat on the surface. Couple of bits of wood at each end does the trick. That way the underneath is clear for the air to move more heat away. Not exactly a comfortable to play on set up like that though.

That's exactly what I was doing haha. But instead I was balancing it on my knee so I wouldn't block any fans. I noticed it very much improved the cooling of my GPU. I am in the process of looking through the millions of laptop stands on Amazon right now.

 

I was playing some Career this morning and unfortunately the Flickering started again. I'm not sure if my GPU was the cause as its temperature was only 60 degrees C. I noticed a strange exception at the end of my Log this time. Maybe someone else can take a look?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6pjtig1sc42ip5/output_log.txt?dl=0

Edited January 4, 2019 by Adamcor

[TimKerbin]

Any idea when/if Scatterer for 1.6.0 will be ready? I've seen videos on YouTube of people in 1.6.0 using 1.5.1 versions of environmental mods including Scatterer, but I don't know how they did it because I cannot get any of them to work at all. KSP just keeps telling me "not supported in 1.6.0, use 1.5.1" even though that's what I'm trying to do!

I miss my environmental mods; KSP looks so naked without them.

[airtrafficcontroller]

3 hours ago, TimKerbin said:

"not supported in 1.6.0, use 1.5.1"

There is a trick, you can edit the .version file inside the mod folder. It will make KSP think that the mod is updated, doesnt work with all but you can try. Scatterer is good in 1.6.

[Atmoz]

3 hours ago, airtrafficcontroller said:

There is a trick, you can edit the .version file inside the mod folder. It will make KSP think that the mod is updated, doesnt work with all but you can try. Scatterer is good in 1.6.

".version file inside the mod folder" ?????

Where ?

[airtrafficcontroller]

6 hours ago, Atmoz said:

Where ?

The folder of the mod that is giving you this message.

Scatterer 0.0336 is working fine in KSP 1.6.

[Brigadier]

15 hours ago, Atmoz said:

".version file inside the mod folder" ?????

Where ?

Generally, go to your KSP\GameData folder and look for the mod in question.  Open that mod folder and look for a .version file, often in the mod's root directory but not always.  Make a backup copy and then open it with any decent text editor.  It'll look something like this one from FMRS:

{
  "NAME": "FMRS (Flight Manager For Reusable Stages)",
  "URL": "http://ksp.spacetux.net/avc/FMRS",
  "DOWNLOAD": "https://github.com/linuxgurugamer/FMRS/releases",
  "GITHUB": {
    "USERNAME": "linuxgurugamer",
    "REPOSITORY": "FMRS"
  },
  "VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 2,
    "PATCH": 7,
    "BUILD": 3
  },
  "KSP_VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 5,
    "PATCH": 1
  },
  "KSP_VERSION_MIN": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 5,
    "PATCH": 1
  },
  "KSP_VERSION_MAX": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 5,
    "PATCH": 99
  }
}

Edit the KSP_VERSION and KSP_VERSION_MAX, if necessary.  Save the file and start KSP.

In your case, however, Scatterer doesn't seem to have one, so I don't know what @airtrafficcontroller is getting at.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Brigadier
Spelling error

[gsc]

On 1/3/2019 at 11:43 PM, Adamcor said:

 

I've managed to get it working much better by changing a few settings. My GPU temp now sits between 60-70 while playing. This also stopped the screen flickering while using Scatterer. I'm beginning to notice this screen flickering problem occur more often when I pick up my laptop though. Maybe there is something wrong internally. I think I will go ahead and clean off the inside with some compressed air just in case.

 

Thanks for the support everyone!

Haha...how do you pick up your laptop - lemme guess: right hand right edge fingers halfway under laptop towards center? Yeah...that causes hairline cracks over time in board, usually that area there around center is also where GPU is located ergo: hairline cracks/cracked solder joints around GPU, wont show up during normal operation, YET, but due to heat buildup they can expand hence flickering...i had the same a couple years back

Edited January 9, 2019 by gsc
cos i felt like it, pröblem?

[Adamcor]

9 hours ago, gsc said:

Haha...how do you pick up your laptop - lemme guess: right hand right edge fingers halfway under laptop towards center? Yeah...that causes hairline cracks over time in board, usually that area there around center is also where GPU is located ergo: hairline cracks/cracked solder joints around GPU, wont show up during normal operation, YET, but due to heat buildup they can expand hence flickering...i had the same a couple years back

 I honestly think that is the problem my laptop is starting to have. Very disappointing to learn about now, as my laptop is already about 2 years old. 

[GrimT]

Hello, cant tell if this is an astronomers pack issue, EVE issue or Scatterer issue. I use the word issue loosely though.  From orbit it would seem I can not see the land that the KSC resides on, and on the night side of Kerbin, white lights flicker in a glitchy way.  Is there a setting that can be changed that Im missing? Is it even Scatterer?

[theonegalen]

On 1/9/2019 at 6:11 PM, GrimT said:

Hello, cant tell if this is an astronomers pack issue, EVE issue or Scatterer issue. I use the word issue loosely though.  From orbit it would seem I can not see the land that the KSC resides on, and on the night side of Kerbin, white lights flicker in a glitchy way.  Is there a setting that can be changed that Im missing? Is it even Scatterer?

EVE seems like isn't compatible with 1.6 or 1.6.1. There are conflicting reports. I had issues like you report, and was running EVE without Scatterer.

Edited January 13, 2019 by theonegalen

[sirchazzvader]

Hello. I am making a planet pack that adds more star systems orbiting a black hole. Since the sun needs to be the origin point of the simulation, I changed it into something that looks like a black hole. However scatterer has effects on the sun. I can't find a way to disable without deleted the cfg file. Is there a MM patch i could use.

[Gapone]

Where can I change the color of atmosphere?

[GrimT]

On 1/12/2019 at 3:31 AM, theonegalen said:

EVE seems like isn't compatible with 1.6 or 1.6.1. There are conflicting reports. I had issues like you report, and was running EVE without Scatterer.

Appreciate the response. Its a little relieving to know that someone else has experienced similar. I was debating switching to SVE in the interim but I like the number of other changes EVE w/ Astronomers Pack have made with the planets.  Then again it could simply be an EVE issue which would persist with SVE anyway but I have a feeling that may not be the case.  The SVE changes appear to be "sharper".  Its cosmetic and its not like I dont know where the KSC is while in orbit so, I'll probably stick it out for now.

[Phineas Freak]

@GrimT I think that the EVE incompatibility issue has been debunked by the same user as being bogus:

(no Unity engine updates happened between the KSP 1.5 and KSP 1.6 branches so shaders remain the same)

[Gordon Fecyk]

Dramatic Frame Rate Drop with Kopernicus "Change My Kerbin"

I work on Alien Space Programs, which lets you start a game from a stock world other than Kerbin. Earlier in late 2018 I released a rebuilt version that takes advantage of Kopernicus 1.5.1's "Change My Kerbin" feature, which lets me use a different stock world as the template for the home world. When I do things this way, it preserves that world's easter eggs; you can find the Face on Homeworld Duna, or the cave on Homeworld Tylo, for instance.

I uncovered a frame rate problem with more complex craft, however; anything greater than 100 or so parts will cause a severe frame rate drop. The physics ticks become slower than a 1/4 second, and time slows down to two real-world seconds per game second.

This didn't happen with previous versions of Alien Space Programs, and it also doesn't happen if I build the home world using the Kerbin template, use removeAllPQSMods = True, and build the home world from 'scratch,' using data from KittopiaTech. When I do this however, I can't add that world's easter eggs back except for monoliths.

Here's where I ask about Scatterer

I narrowed the frame rate problem down to Scatterer and no other add-on. When I remove Scatterer, I get the same frame rates regardless of how I build the home world. This includes adding EVE and a heavy particle count configuration like SVE. When I put Scatterer back though, the frame rate severely drops when I build the home world from a non-Kerbin template, and returns to normal when I build it from scratch. The frame rate drop ceases during on-rails time warp, either landed or in low orbit.

What I want to know, is if I can change something in how I'm building the home world that would avoid the Scatterer frame rate drop and still preserve that world's easter eggs.

To reproduce the problem

Since Scatterer's latest KSP release is 1.5.1, use KSP 1.5.1, Kopernicus 1.5.1-x (either -1 -2 or -3), and Alien Space Programs 1.5.1. Get the Scatterer release for KSP 1.5.1. Eve seems to be the easiest place to reproduce the problem, so set the home world to Eve and put a 100+ part craft on the runway or launch pad. On my Intel i4770 CPU plus GTX-1080 graphics I get a frame rate drop to below 15 FPS when I do this. To restore the frame rate to 'playable,' replace Eve.cfg with Eve.full-cfg from the ASP 1.5.1 project site. You can remove and re-add Scatterer to test Eve.basic-cfg and Eve.full-cfg to observe the frame rate difference.

Suggestions?

Is there something I can do in my Kopernicus configuration to improve performance when Scatterer is used?

Part of my thought process is how the home world still needs to be named "Kerbin" internally, at least at first, and use cbNameLater to rename it. It appears Scatterer keys its atmosphere settings on the cbNameLater value, but I wonder if it's trying to draw Kerbin's and Eve's atmospheres at the same time.

I also have a Scatterer patch file in ASP that renames any configuration for Kerbin to use 'Bin' instead, which is what non-homeworld Kerbin is called internally. Cheating a 100+ part craft to 'Bin' regardless of how 'Bin' is built gives me the same decent frame rate.

So here is what happened

Scatterer apparently wants a full Ocean{} configuration in the definition for whatever the home world is, even if it's templated from a stock world that has an ocean. I copied the Ocean{} configurations from dumps saved from Kittopia into the home world definitions, and frame rates with Scatterer and complex craft improve to original values.

Make sure your home world has an ocean configuration, even if it's hidden under a continuous PQS land mass, to make KSP and Scatterer happy.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Gordon Fecyk
The fix

[Turbo Ben]

Hi, I asked this question in the technical help (modded) section about 3 weeks ago, but haven't had any replies.

Basicly, after playing the game for 200 hours or so, I decided it was time to give some mods a go with a new career. I had some extra planets and wanted EVE and scatterer to add the visual enhancements. Problem is, after installing scatterer, my frame rate tanked, even at the KSC scene, and I was stuck with a permanently yellow timer. Even with only scatterer installed, the lag was not improved.

Just for comparison, with no mods and high graphics settings, I can run at 3x speed in atmosphere with only the occasional flicker of a yellow clock.

A few specs and things I've tried:

     Windows 10 64 bit. I've I actually installed a fresh copy of windows on a clean hard drive. It did make a very noticeable improvement in the physics calculations, but the frame rate lag is still there and is unbearable.

     Intel i7-7700K overclocked to 5gHz (delidded with liquid metal thermal compound and water cooled. Runs to 70C tops with all 4 cores being stress tested)

     16GB DDR4 RAM

     NVIDIA GTX 1050 Graphics running the game on 3 monitors with a resolution of 1080 x  5760. Tweeked the nvidia graphics settings using online guide with no noticeable improvement.

     Samsung evo SSD

     Power settings set to performance - made no difference.

     running -force-d3d11 made no difference other than to introduce some glitches.

     Running 64bit KSP 1.5.1 - Scatterer installed using CKAN so should be up to date.

I've now done another 200 hours or so with quite a few mods installed and only really noticed a slowdown on a Duna decent. I'd really like to give scatterer another chance, so if anyone can offer any suggestions I'd be very grateful. The only weak spot on my system I think is the graphics card at the resolution I'm running, but it's coping well with all the other mods installed.

Thanks

[Gameslinx]

20 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Dramatic Frame Rate Drop with Kopernicus "Change My Kerbin"

I work on Alien Space Programs, which lets you start a game from a stock world other than Kerbin. Earlier in late 2018 I released a rebuilt version that takes advantage of Kopernicus 1.5.1's "Change My Kerbin" feature, which lets me use a different stock world as the template for the home world. When I do things this way, it preserves that world's easter eggs; you can find the Face on Homeworld Duna, or the cave on Homeworld Tylo, for instance.

I uncovered a frame rate problem with more complex craft, however; anything greater than 100 or so parts will cause a severe frame rate drop. The physics ticks become slower than a 1/4 second, and time slows down to two real-world seconds per game second.

This didn't happen with previous versions of Alien Space Programs, and it also doesn't happen if I build the home world using the Kerbin template, use removeAllPQSMods = True, and build the home world from 'scratch,' using data from KittopiaTech. When I do this however, I can't add that world's easter eggs back except for monoliths.

Here's where I ask about Scatterer

I narrowed the frame rate problem down to Scatterer and no other add-on. When I remove Scatterer, I get the same frame rates regardless of how I build the home world. This includes adding EVE and a heavy particle count configuration like SVE. When I put Scatterer back though, the frame rate severely drops when I build the home world from a non-Kerbin template, and returns to normal when I build it from scratch. The frame rate drop ceases during on-rails time warp, either landed or in low orbit.

What I want to know, is if I can change something in how I'm building the home world that would avoid the Scatterer frame rate drop and still preserve that world's easter eggs.

To reproduce the problem

Since Scatterer's latest KSP release is 1.5.1, use KSP 1.5.1, Kopernicus 1.5.1-x (either -1 -2 or -3), and Alien Space Programs 1.5.1. Get the Scatterer release for KSP 1.5.1. Eve seems to be the easiest place to reproduce the problem, so set the home world to Eve and put a 100+ part craft on the runway or launch pad. On my Intel i4770 CPU plus GTX-1080 graphics I get a frame rate drop to below 15 FPS when I do this. To restore the frame rate to 'playable,' replace Eve.cfg with Eve.full-cfg from the ASP 1.5.1 project site. You can remove and re-add Scatterer to test Eve.basic-cfg and Eve.full-cfg to observe the frame rate difference.

Suggestions?

Is there something I can do in my Kopernicus configuration to improve performance when Scatterer is used?

Part of my thought process is how the home world still needs to be named "Kerbin" internally, at least at first, and use cbNameLater to rename it. It appears Scatterer keys its atmosphere settings on the cbNameLater value, but I wonder if it's trying to draw Kerbin's and Eve's atmospheres at the same time.

I also have a Scatterer patch file in ASP that renames any configuration for Kerbin to use 'Bin' instead, which is what non-homeworld Kerbin is called internally. Cheating a 100+ part craft to 'Bin' regardless of how 'Bin' is built gives me the same decent frame rate.

Can confirm that during development of my upcoming Beyond Home mod, I get significantly reduced FPS on the home world compared to a default stock kerbin.

The cause is my GPU ramping up to 70%+ usage which is ridiculous since it's a GTX 1080. However I don't think the underlying issue is scatterer - more how the rebuild kerbin is applied. I noticed that it doesn't lag at night. Try timewarping to night - your FPS should jump right up.

4 hours ago, Turbo Ben said:

NVIDIA GTX 1050 Graphics running the game on 3 monitors with a resolution of 1080 x  5760. Tweeked the nvidia graphics settings using online guide with no noticeable improvement.

An I reading 1080 X 5760 correctly? I assume that's 5760 X 1080, being a triple-monitor or a large sized wide-screen.

I think it's to do with the pixel density you're trying to render - is your GPU usage at 100%?

You're rendering slightly less than 3840 x 2160 (4k) pixels. I play at 4k and experience a huge impact in my performance and GPU usage with scatterer, rocketing usages to 70+ percent.

That said, I think scatterer is too demanding on the GPU at this resolution. This is definitely to do with optimization, but if nothing can be done (and we should wait for the new release at least), you're being bottlenecked by your graphics card.

[gamerscircle]

I am new to scatter [okay.. that is a little white lie]

I used to use it back in 1.05, but it made things too dark and other things.. now , I understand that is better control.  Would someone mind sharing with me how I can keep the cool atmo effects, but perhaps reduce the pitch blackness on the darkside of planets by like 50% ... thank you

[Gordon Fecyk]

3 hours ago, Gameslinx said:

However I don't think the underlying issue is scatterer - more how the rebuild kerbin is applied. I noticed that it doesn't lag at night. Try timewarping to night - your FPS should jump right up.

I just did that and I see the same frame rate at dawn, high noon, dusk, and pitch black. Nothing but Scatterer and the 'simple' homeworld Eve, and I get 17 FPS on said PC and consistent yellow clock. Now I didn't check the GPU usage vs CPU usage... I'll be right back.

[Update] Now this is interesting, GPU usage is at about 90% during on-rails time warp and I get a playable frame rate. CPU usage is about 35-40%. I exit on-rails time warp, and both CPU and GPU usage drop to 30% and 45% respectively. Something seems to be throttling the CPU and GPU outside of time warp.

[Update two] Using the full build the GPU is consistent at 90-100% usage at all states.

I'd like there to be a simple problem where maybe it's using two scatter configurations at once on the simple build.

[Update three] It seems I found a compromise that fixes my frame rate issue, at least for Eve. I can template Eve and still build out everything from scratch, which I suspect gives Scatterer enough information to function. And I just tried the same technique for Homeworld Duna, which preserves Duna's easter eggs. I still have frame rate issues at Homeworld Duna, but they're not Scatterer-related as I get the same frame rates with or without it.

Maybe Scatterer just needs enough atmosphere and ocean information in the configuration such as to avoid wasteful lookups in memory or disk? I don't know.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Gordon Fecyk
Some more results

[Natokerbal]

@blackrack when can we expect a release of the new lighting and fixing of the terrain edge?

[Snark]

2 hours ago, Natokerbal said:

@blackrack when can we expect a release of the new lighting and fixing of the terrain edge?

As soon as it's ready, I would assume.  Presumably if he wanted to announce a date he would have done so.

Please be patient. Remember that modding is a labor intensive, time consuming task that modders do for free, in their spare time, and naturally has to take a back seat to IRL priorities such as work, school, family, etc.

Therefore, it's rarely appropriate to ask "when". Since they're hard at work to give us shiny new toys for free, asking nothing in return, it seems only polite not to breathe down their necks and jostle their elbows, no?

It's great that folks love the mod, and perfectly understandable that they're eager to lay hands on it. It's an awesome piece of work; for that matter, I'm pretty darn eager myself.

But it'll be ready when it's ready, and asking about it doesn't make it come any faster. So let's just give him a bit of breathing room to do his work, shall we?

[Gameslinx]

6 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

[Update two] Using the full build the GPU is consistent at 90-100% usage at all states.

It's the same here. I think the post processing shaders are causing it. Try dropping your resolution and seeing if that helps. But playing below native is never fun...