Shower thoughts

[SunlitZelkova]

The idea that an advanced AI could constitute a new lifeform is the same as the ancients believing the trees mountains and rocks were alive.

Same goes for conscious uploading.

EDIT- I am tired.

Edited November 26, 2023 by SunlitZelkova

[Bej Kerman]

27 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

The idea that an advanced AI could constitute a new lifeform is the same as the ancients believing the trees mountains and rocks were alive.

Same goes for conscious uploading.

Define consciousness.

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Define consciousness.

Ability to create a problem without external kickstart start kick.

Computers can solve problems. But they need humans to create them first.

[TheSaint]

7 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Ability to create a problem without external kickstart start kick.

Computers can solve problems. But they need humans to create them first.

You're saying our cat is conscious?

[kerbiloid]

Finally you have understood, what the cat is trying to explain to you.

[SunlitZelkova]

14 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Define consciousness.

What I meant was mind uploading.

From Wikipedia-

Mind uploading is a speculative process of whole brain emulation in which a brain scan is used to completely emulate the mental state of the individual in a digital computer. The computer would then run a simulation of the brain's information processing, such that it would respond in essentially the same way as the original brain and experience having a sentient conscious mind.^[1][2][3]

Digital immortality (or "virtual immortality")^[1] is the hypothetical concept of storing (or transferring) a person's personality in digital substrate, i.e., a computer, robot or cyberspace^[2] (mind uploading). The result might look like an avatar behaving, reacting, and thinking like a person on the basis of that person's digital archive.^[3][4][5][6] After the death of the individual, this avatar could remain static or continue to learn and self-improve autonomously (possibly becoming seed AI).

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

After the death of the individual, this avatar could remain static or continue to learn and self-improve autonomously (possibly becoming seed AI).

... doing the things that make the original person have an eternal facepalm, watching it from heaven.

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Mind uploading is a speculative process of whole brain emulation in which a brain scan is used to completely emulate the mental state of the individual in a digital computer. The computer would then run a simulation of the brain's information processing, such that it would respond in essentially the same way as the original brain and experience having a sentient conscious mind.^[

... soyou can arrest and imprison the person in advance, before his heresy could develop into the betrayal of Imperium and serving to Chaos.

[SunlitZelkova]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

... doing the things that make the original person have an eternal facepalm, watching it from heaven.

... soyou can arrest and imprison the person in advance, before his heresy could develop into the betrayal of Imperium and serving to Chaos.

One of my theories was that it is the year 3268 and every country has become a Soviet Socialist Republic. Those of us who are not bots are people placed in a false alternative world simulation where the USSR collapsed 1200 years ago as punishment for anti-Soviet activities.

[kerbiloid]

2 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Those of us who are not bots are people placed in a false alternative world simulation where the USSR collapsed 1200 years ago as punishment for anti-Soviet activities.

No, these ones are mining fuel to power that simulation.

[LHACK4142]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:58 PM, SunlitZelkova said:

What I meant was mind uploading.

From Wikipedia-

Mind uploading is a speculative process of whole brain emulation in which a brain scan is used to completely emulate the mental state of the individual in a digital computer. The computer would then run a simulation of the brain's information processing, such that it would respond in essentially the same way as the original brain and experience having a sentient conscious mind.^[1][2][3]

Digital immortality (or "virtual immortality")^[1] is the hypothetical concept of storing (or transferring) a person's personality in digital substrate, i.e., a computer, robot or cyberspace^[2] (mind uploading). The result might look like an avatar behaving, reacting, and thinking like a person on the basis of that person's digital archive.^[3][4][5][6] After the death of the individual, this avatar could remain static or continue to learn and self-improve autonomously (possibly becoming seed AI).

For the good of all of us except the ones who are dead...

[kerbiloid]

The sentenced to death term.

So, they know some secret sentence, which kills the prisoner when they pronounce it.

Spoiler

 

P.S.
It looks so plain, that I now even doubt, if it's not a granny's joke in the original book...

[Superfluous J]

(not mine)

Everybody is eternally just minutes from death, but we reset the timer each time we breathe in.

[adsii1970]

7 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Everybody is eternally just minutes from death, but we reset the timer each time we breathe in.

Interesting thought. We often live as if we are promised tomorrow. We aren't promised the next ten minutes.

--------

This morning, while grading final project papers for one of my first-year university classes, I realized how unprepared many American students are for university education. In this class of 27 students, I have four international students, five private school students, and two home-schooled students. The rest are all products of the American public education system. Here's something I've noticed:

• Number of students who did not submit a final project paper: 4 (15%)
  • Number of international students who did not submit a project paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of private school students (American) who did not submit a paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of home-schooled students (American) who did not submit a paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of American public education students who did not submit a paper: 4 (100%)
• Number of students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers:  7 (26%).
  • Number of international students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 0 (0%)
  • Number of private school students (American) who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 1 (14%)
  • Number of home-schooled students (American) who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 0 (0%)
  • Number of American public education students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 6 (86%)
• Number of students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 13 (48%)
  • Number of international students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 2 (15%)
  • Number of private school students (American) who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 1 (8%)
  • Number of home-schooled students (American) who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 1 (8% )
  • Number of American public education students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 9 (69%)

Many would say, "But adsii1970, of course, you have more American public school students in your classes than the other categories; it's supposed to be that way!" However, the problem is that this class has 27 students, and 13 of these students are considered to have a nontraditional academic background (meaning they did not attend a public American school). The numbers are telling. If I take the same statistics above and break them down into the broader categories, American public school students versus non-public school students, this is what we get:

• Number of students who did not submit a final project paper: 4 (15%)
  • Number of non-American public school students who did not submit a paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of American public education students who did not submit a paper: 4 (100%)
    • This means out of the general education students, 29% (4 out of 14) decided not to do the final project.
• Number of students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers:  7 (26%).
  • Number of non-American public school students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 1 (14%)
    • This means that out of the non-American public education students, 8% (1 out of 13) attempted to use AI for part of their final project paper.
  • Number of American public education students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 6 (86%)
    • This means that of the American public education students, 43% (6 out of 14) attempted to use AI for part of their final project paper.
• Number of students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 13 (48%)
  • Number of non-American public school students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 4 (31%)
    • This means that out of the non-American public education students, 31% (4 out of 13) had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors.
  • Number of American public education students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 9 (69%)
    • This means that of the American public education students, 64% (9 out of 14) had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors.

We are supposed to keep statistics over two years before we report trends, so this is the second semester I've kept these numbers, and the data is nearly identical. I talked to a fellow professor about this last semester; she has been tracking the same data for the past year. We have agreed to work together and submit a joint report to the administration. We have noticed that first-year American public school students struggle in many areas of university life - basic academics, time management, interpersonal skills, the ability to handle diverse opinions or views contrary to their own, or even facts that challenge their perceptions of the world around them. First-year international students (who come from outside the United States) perform better in all those areas than their American counterparts. Nontraditional students (those 24 and older) also perform significantly better but are filtered into the broad categories, even though we both admitted we should probably have excluded them from our data as their study habits and personalities are atypical of traditional first-year American public school students entering the university.

As a teenager's parent, I've begun to tell her to press her teachers to teach "beyond the test." And I have challenged her to learn beyond the school. These statistics scare me as a parent, a grandparent, and a university educator.

[TheSaint]

7 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

Interesting thought. We often live as if we are promised tomorrow. We aren't promised the next ten minutes.

--------

This morning, while grading final project papers for one of my first-year university classes, I realized how unprepared many American students are for university education. In this class of 27 students, I have four international students, five private school students, and two home-schooled students. The rest are all products of the American public education system. Here's something I've noticed:

• Number of students who did not submit a final project paper: 4 (15%)
  • Number of international students who did not submit a project paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of private school students (American) who did not submit a paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of home-schooled students (American) who did not submit a paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of American public education students who did not submit a paper: 4 (100%)
• Number of students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers:  7 (26%).
  • Number of international students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 0 (0%)
  • Number of private school students (American) who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 1 (14%)
  • Number of home-schooled students (American) who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 0 (0%)
  • Number of American public education students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 6 (86%)
• Number of students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 13 (48%)
  • Number of international students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 2 (15%)
  • Number of private school students (American) who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 1 (8%)
  • Number of home-schooled students (American) who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 1 (8% )
  • Number of American public education students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 9 (69%)

Many would say, "But adsii1970, of course, you have more American public school students in your classes than the other categories; it's supposed to be that way!" However, the problem is that this class has 27 students, and 13 of these students are considered to have a nontraditional academic background (meaning they did not attend a public American school). The numbers are telling. If I take the same statistics above and break them down into the broader categories, American public school students versus non-public school students, this is what we get:

• Number of students who did not submit a final project paper: 4 (15%)
  • Number of non-American public school students who did not submit a paper: 0 (0%)
  • Number of American public education students who did not submit a paper: 4 (100%)
    • This means out of the general education students, 29% (4 out of 14) decided not to do the final project.
• Number of students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers:  7 (26%).
  • Number of non-American public school students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 1 (14%)
    • This means that out of the non-American public education students, 8% (1 out of 13) attempted to use AI for part of their final project paper.
  • Number of American public education students who have attempted to use AI to complete their research papers: 6 (86%)
    • This means that of the American public education students, 43% (6 out of 14) attempted to use AI for part of their final project paper.
• Number of students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 13 (48%)
  • Number of non-American public school students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 4 (31%)
    • This means that out of the non-American public education students, 31% (4 out of 13) had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors.
  • Number of American public education students who had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors: 9 (69%)
    • This means that of the American public education students, 64% (9 out of 14) had four or more critical errors using standard English grammar, misspelled words, or citation errors.

We are supposed to keep statistics over two years before we report trends, so this is the second semester I've kept these numbers, and the data is nearly identical. I talked to a fellow professor about this last semester; she has been tracking the same data for the past year. We have agreed to work together and submit a joint report to the administration. We have noticed that first-year American public school students struggle in many areas of university life - basic academics, time management, interpersonal skills, the ability to handle diverse opinions or views contrary to their own, or even facts that challenge their perceptions of the world around them. First-year international students (who come from outside the United States) perform better in all those areas than their American counterparts. Nontraditional students (those 24 and older) also perform significantly better but are filtered into the broad categories, even though we both admitted we should probably have excluded them from our data as their study habits and personalities are atypical of traditional first-year American public school students entering the university.

As a teenager's parent, I've begun to tell her to press her teachers to teach "beyond the test." And I have challenged her to learn beyond the school. These statistics scare me as a parent, a grandparent, and a university educator.

Anecdotal evidence: Thing #1 has been taking college-level courses now for a year-and-a-half at the shop and trades portion of our local community college. You can pooh-pooh this, but he's been taking courses on CNC operation and programming, pneumatics and hydraulics, industrial controller programming, etc. When he's finished he'll be certified to operate Haas CNC machines, which is a foot in the door to just about any manufacturing plant in the country. This is not wood shop. His classes are mixed, they are about 50% dual-enrollment (i.e. high school kids taking college courses) and 50% college-age kids. He keeps commenting on the fact that in every class he takes he winds up being the "super user", the student who is so far ahead of everyone else that he's the one other students come to and ask for help when the instructor is busy. Last year he was the Student of the Year for the entire trade school. At the time, he had barely turned sixteen years old. Homeschooling FTW, once again.

Amusingly, my kids are constantly laboring under the misapprehension that they are "just average". Dunning-Kruger backhand there.

[StrandedonEarth]

I so wish I had gone into CNC when I washed out of engineering. I figured something with computers, but the broad spectrum of computer choices left me indecisively marking time in manual labor (logistics and manufacturing) with a frame that really wasn’t built for that sort of long-term work. 

Even when I went to a union career-thing they just didn’t offer anything, it was “Well, based on the aptitude test you can do about anything, what do you want to do?” And I’m like “I was hoping you could give me ideas”. But no

[TheSaint]

1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I so wish I had gone into CNC when I washed out of engineering. I figured something with computers, but the broad spectrum of computer choices left me indecisively marking time in manual labor (logistics and manufacturing) with a frame that really wasn’t built for that sort of long-term work. 

Even when I went to a union career-thing they just didn’t offer anything, it was “Well, based on the aptitude test you can do about anything, what do you want to do?” And I’m like “I was hoping you could give me ideas”. But no

When I was graduating high school, the choices we were offered were, "You can go to college, or you can go into the military." Trades weren't even mentioned. And now, all things considered, I'm practically steering my kids into the trades. I mean, we're showing them all the options. We're taking the boys down to Phoenix in a couple of weeks to tour ASU and take a look at their engineering program, for example. But in terms of ROI these days, trades is where it's at.

[adsii1970]

13 hours ago, TheSaint said:

He keeps commenting on the fact that in every class he takes he winds up being the "super user", the student who is so far ahead of everyone else that he's the one other students come to and ask for help when the instructor is busy. Last year he was the Student of the Year for the entire trade school. At the time, he had barely turned sixteen years old. Homeschooling FTW, once again.

Ha, now you have some data that proves your point. Good to know you're seeing it, too.

11 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I so wish I had gone into CNC when I washed out of engineering. I figured something with computers, but the broad spectrum of computer choices left me indecisively marking time in manual labor (logistics and manufacturing) with a frame that really wasn’t built for that sort of long-term work. 

Even when I went to a union career-thing they just didn’t offer anything, it was “Well, based on the aptitude test you can do about anything, what do you want to do?” And I’m like “I was hoping you could give me ideas”. But no

I often advise my students that college may not be the best route for them, especially if they hated high school. There's nothing wrong with trade school. I have even sat down with a few of them to explore their interests and determine how to match them with vocations. Not every career needs a college degree (and student loan debt). When your car breaks down, you do not call someone with an M.A. in English to fix it; you call the A.S.E. certified mechanic to fix it. And you pay more per hour than that M.A. in English makes in an hour! (The same goes for your air conditioning or plumbing, too).

[Hotel26]

Smart people who go into trades often end up running small businesses of their own, employing other tradies, and then doing very well for themselves.  Nothing to sniff at.

[RitherKerbol]

Why are these called "Shower Thoughts" If we can have them outside the shower?

[SunlitZelkova]

6 minutes ago, RitherKerbol said:

Why are these called "Shower Thoughts" If we can have them outside the shower?

Why is the game called “Kerbal Space Program” when you don’t actually send anything to space? All you do is put pressure on pieces of plastic called “keys” and “mouse” with your fingers, and watch lights change color on a screen.

[Kerbart]

17 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Why is the game called “Kerbal Space Program” when you don’t actually send anything to space? All you do is put pressure on pieces of plastic called “keys” and “mouse” with your fingers, and watch lights change color on a screen.

That's a pretty cavalier dismissal of the very real possibility that none of those things actually exist and that it's all a holographic projection of an n-dimensional space inside a massive black hole.

[Hotel26]

3 hours ago, RitherKerbol said:

Why are these called "Shower Thoughts" If we can have them outside the shower?

"Don't ask.  Don't tell."

 

3 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Why is the game called “Kerbal Space Program” when you don’t actually send anything to space? All you do is put pressure on pieces of plastic called “keys” and “mouse” with your fingers, and watch lights change color on a screen.

Oh the disappointment to learn this!  I am taking the rest of the day off...

@Kerbart @adsii1970 and yet it gets worse.   We're not really here?

I need to go lie down.  Or never take another shower again...  (After all, why should I: this sweat and grime is merely illusory?)

Edited December 1, 2023 by Hotel26

[RitherKerbol]

Alright, wont ask. 

[Bej Kerman]

43 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Take a hammer and hit your watch/clock.

If this is a simulation, you will see nothing but polygons.

The only simulation, able to get deeper and deeper is called "reality".

Not to nitpick, but if your computer can't render a convincingly detailed smashed clock, it's probably from the early 2000s.

[Hotel26]

7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

painted dial?

Now finally, I understand the fascination with clocks.  They have dials and that is an anagram for the impressionist.

Time is clearly not on our side.  Clocks work only on their own time.  Never smash one or they will ALL come looking for you...!!

Edited December 1, 2023 by Hotel26