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The New End-User License Agreement is Unacceptable

T.C.

By T.C.
in KSP1 Discussion

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HvP

HvP

Posted
Posted

So I now have to send a certified letter to New York at my own expense to ensure that I still have access to my constitutional right to the public court system in the case that my account information stored with Take Two is compromised or misused.

Look, I'm well aware that this is a widespread corporate policy, and that's the problem. Rest assured that I only participate in this farce because at least an opt out was offered, however tedious they intend the process to be. To say that I'm disappointed is a massive understatement. I left my bank and switched to a credit union over this; I refused to operate with a car dealership over this; I do not own a cell phone due to this; and I gave my landlord hell over this until I was given the option to opt out.

I now refuse to buy any other DLC or paid content from Squad/TTI until this policy is lifted. I'm only keeping my KSP store account for the moment in order do download patches for a program that I already paid money for and assuming I get signed confirmation that my opt out has been accepted.

I do not pay money to any company for the favor of nullifying my constitutional rights!

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Elthy

Elthy

Posted
Posted

Im quite sure such a clause is illegal in Germany. Im not sure why anybody sensible would ad such a clause anyway, its extremly anti consumer and shows how little KSPs Devs care about the players...

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HvP

HvP

Posted
Posted

I'm done.

No more money from me TTI/Squad. Sending my certified letter for all the good it will do. This will be my last post here on the forums.

Goodbye all. It was fun.

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StarStreak2109

StarStreak2109

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Elthy said:

Im quite sure such a clause is illegal in Germany. Im not sure why anybody sensible would ad such a clause anyway, its extremly anti consumer and shows how little KSPs Devs care about the players...

Well, I am no lawyer*, but I know a bit about this whole arbitration stuff from work.

  • First of all, arbitration is pretty expensive, one might even call excessively so, which is why it usually is only used in high stakes corporate conflicts. I do not know how issues between end users and companies are dealt with in arbitration, but in corporate issues I know that there are special courts of arbitration, which are really private entities essentially.
  • In arbitration, the parties appear in front of an arbiter and explain their claims. The arbiter then makes an irrevocable, final decision on the matter. There is no appeal, no second round.
  • Afterwards, the parties pay their dues to the arbiter including whatever claims have been ruled by the arbiter who then distributes the claims to the claimant.

So, to make a long story short, I guess this would apply to bigger issues, rather than what is going on in this forum, unless somebody is stealing IP. Is this enforcable in Germany? I do not know, but I guess that T2 have a pretty good legal department who would find a way. Otherwise my suspicion is that lawyers might go with the strategy "Let's just do it, the defendant might break under the pressure of impending legal doom...".

I also appreciate that T2 have a vested interest in securing their legal positions, whatever they might be. Which does not mean that the end user has to be happy with it. I would probably not make such a big issue out of it, but then again, I am not a content creator. OTOH, what interest would T2 have in destroying the only reason, why KSP still has such a large following? Mods and user created content is what is keeping this game still going with such a big user base. If they killed that, this game would disappear to oblivion sooner rather than later, especially since I think KSP is already on the declining end of the product life cycle.

Finally we need to remember making the differentiation between Skwod, who are merely devs (i.e. service providers) these days and T2 being the IP owner.

So, as the British like to say:

Keep-calm-and-carry-on-scan.jpg

 

* Funny how this kind of post always begin....

Anyway, lads, keep your shirts on and lets wait how this turns out. If this goes south, T2 and Skwod are merely hurting themselves, I got a copy of the game stashed away on my computer, along with all my favorite mods, if the forum and further content creation is killed by T2, so be it. But I do not think so.

Cheers,

Sebastian

 

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Mr. Peabody

Mr. Peabody

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, HvP said:

<snip>

It seems to me that if you are concerned about things like this, you shouldn't have bought the game in the first place. Or a computer for that matter. The time is rapidly approaching when every shred of your "private" information will be extremely easily accessible to people with credentials or in the government. Your facial profile, your current location, your fingerprint, all of your likes and dislikes and consumer/travel expenses. [snip] You are right though, it is unfortunate that things have come to this. We will soon be living in a world where government/corporate discrimination and selectivity will be the norm. [snip]

Edited by adsii1970
Removed mild political discourse
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scottadges

scottadges

Posted
Posted

Wow, this is an old thread. :P I remember reading this back in the day.

I also looked, the last activity from the OP was this thread back in Sept 2017 and then.... apparently nothing after that. I think this was a semi-trolling post back in the day anyway LOL

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sturmhauke

sturmhauke

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Elthy said:

Im quite sure such a clause is illegal in Germany. Im not sure why anybody sensible would ad such a clause anyway, its extremly anti consumer and shows how little KSPs Devs care about the players...

It's not the devs, it's Take Two's (the parent company) legal department. It's possible you'll see some devs resign in protest, but beyond that they have no say over this sort of thing.

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JadeOfMaar

JadeOfMaar

Posted
Posted

@scottadges Given the first two posts at the top of this page, it's perfectly fine to necro this thread vs someone start a new one. I'm not triggered by this new situation (I'm in the company of those who know this legal crap far better than me) but I'm sad in advance for the next flock of mod-makers who're going to walk away, not knowing better.

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scottadges

scottadges

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@scottadges Given the first two posts at the top of this page, it's perfectly fine to necro this thread vs someone start a new one.

Sorry, just making sure to say I wasn't critiquing or commenting about necro'ing just more like "Oh wow, I remember that discussion" from back in the day. :wink:

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sturmhauke

sturmhauke

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

This explains it better... Please take the time to visit this link before you grab the tar, feathers, and pitchforks...

 

TLDR: Binding arbitration is nothing new, at least not in the US. It's unlikely to affect you personally, but if it does you are probably going to have a bad time. If you don't like it, you can either boycott the company (along with literally thousands of other companies that do the same thing), lobby to get binding arbitration made illegal like they do in some other countries, or grumble and accept it.

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StarStreak2109

StarStreak2109

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

TLDR: Binding arbitration is nothing new, at least not in the US. It's unlikely to affect you personally, but if it does you are probably going to have a bad time. If you don't like it, you can either boycott the company (along with literally thousands of other companies that do the same thing), lobby to get binding arbitration made illegal like they do in some other countries, or grumble and accept it.

Exactly, you have to keep in mind what would happen so that this new clause needs to come into effect. If you play the game "normally", this should not affect you in any way... :)

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DDE

DDE

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Tbh I don't really understand the new EULA, so I'm fine with it

Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Basically, they’ve added a clause that basically guarantee they emerge victorious in any legal dispute.

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