[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]

[eberkain]

23 minutes ago, R-T-B said:

Looks like you may have intended this for Kerbalism devs?

lol, yeah, my bad. 

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Is JNSQ "Feature-complete" in terms of planets/celestial bodies? I feel like the Duna system could benefit from a lightweight object similar to Phobos or Deimos.

[OhioBob]

20 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Is JNSQ "Feature-complete" in terms of planets/celestial bodies? I feel like the Duna system could benefit from a lightweight object similar to Phobos or Deimos.

JNSQ is complete as far as the number of bodes is concerned.  There could be some further changes, however.  For instance, we'd like to update some of the biome maps.  If or when it happens I have no idea.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Clamp-o-Tron Yes it is. Ninja'd by Bob. But particularly, it doesn't add or subtract moons from the stock planets. Doing so may be outside of Galileo's vision. Other things concerning the planets (not their numbers and positions) do wait to be done, like biomes and anomalies.

[Gordon Fecyk]

Looking at a streamed do-over

Since I'm looking at a likely do-over of my JNSQ Exploration saved game to work around surface issues, would anyone be interested in watching a live stream of the do-overs? It's one thing to see the edited versions and it's another to see the multiple Krakenite-initiated reloads. (Thanks @Matt Lowne for canonizing the stuff that lets people revert to the past! Our very own Omega-13 device.)

Is there a good Discord server dedicated to JNSQ aside from the old Space Race server that recently was decommissioned?

[CDSlice]

11 minutes ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Looking at a streamed do-over

Since I'm looking at a likely do-over of my JNSQ Exploration saved game to work around surface issues, would anyone be interested in watching a live stream of the do-overs? It's one thing to see the edited versions and it's another to see the multiple Krakenite-initiated reloads. (Thanks @Matt Lowne for canonizing the stuff that lets people revert to the past! Our very own Omega-13 device.)

Is there a good Discord server dedicated to JNSQ aside from the old Space Race server that recently was decommissioned?

I for one would be interested in watching you stream. The only Discord server I know of that is dedicated to JNSQ is the Team Galileo discord server (https://discord.gg/wzjMXRh) but it is pretty empty right now. 

[ble210]

I am looking for help on re-entry with this mod.  I am trying to return the 1.875 meter command pod from a Mun-height apoapsis (I flew out to that height to test re-entry), but no matter what  I do, my capsule overheats and gets destroyed.  I've tried periapses in the atmosphere ranging from 35km to 60km, but all overheat and blow up.

Any suggestions from more experienced players?  Loving the mod and its challenges!

[evileye.x]

2 hours ago, ble210 said:

Any suggestions from more experienced players?

Heatshield full ablator?

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, ble210 said:

I am looking for help on re-entry with this mod.  I am trying to return the 1.875 meter command pod from a Mun-height apoapsis (I flew out to that height to test re-entry), but no matter what  I do, my capsule overheats and gets destroyed.  I've tried periapses in the atmosphere ranging from 35km to 60km, but all overheat and blow up.

Any suggestions from more experienced players?  Loving the mod and its challenges!

I haven't had that problem playing with normal settings.  I usually set my periapsis at around 25-30 km, but the results would be about the same at 35 km. I typically use full ablator the first time, then if I have some left over I'll reduce it for the next trip.  Have you increased the heating difficult settings, or are perhaps using a mod that affects heat?

[lemon cup]

3 hours ago, ble210 said:

I am looking for help on re-entry with this mod.  I am trying to return the 1.875 meter command pod from a Mun-height apoapsis (I flew out to that height to test re-entry), but no matter what  I do, my capsule overheats and gets destroyed.  I've tried periapses in the atmosphere ranging from 35km to 60km, but all overheat and blow up.

Any suggestions from more experienced players?  Loving the mod and its challenges!

That sounds odd. I’ve found the sweet spot to be 40km (if memory serves) which you say you tested. After your capsule explodes, what does the crash report say failed first? If the capsule is the first part to overheat and explode, I’d guess there is an issue with how the heat shield is fitted, possibly exposing the capsule to more of the air stream than it should.

Edited December 5, 2020 by lemon cup

[eberkain]

4 hours ago, ble210 said:

I am looking for help on re-entry with this mod.  I am trying to return the 1.875 meter command pod from a Mun-height apoapsis (I flew out to that height to test re-entry), but no matter what  I do, my capsule overheats and gets destroyed.  I've tried periapses in the atmosphere ranging from 35km to 60km, but all overheat and blow up.

Any suggestions from more experienced players?  Loving the mod and its challenges!

What other mods are you using?  I have been having a real struggle getting pods to survive reentry also. 

[Gordon Fecyk]

6 hours ago, ble210 said:

I am looking for help on re-entry with this mod.  I am trying to return the 1.875 meter command pod from a Mun-height apoapsis (I flew out to that height to test re-entry), but no matter what  I do, my capsule overheats and gets destroyed. 

This is the second post I've seen with this question. I've returned a Mk2 pod from the Mun with only 250 Ablator, and a Mk1 pod from Minmus with full Ablator. This is using default settings in Normal mode.

Do you have any way to record an attempt to video? I'd like to observe this, preferably with Kerbal Engineer's Thermal tab open, but I think you can also display heat information using the Physics section of the Cheats window.

[ble210]

4 hours ago, OhioBob said:

I haven't had that problem playing with normal settings.  I usually set my periapsis at around 25-30 km, but the results would be about the same at 35 km. I typically use full ablator the first time, then if I have some left over I'll reduce it for the next trip.  Have you increased the heating difficult settings, or are perhaps using a mod that affects heat?

I had increased the heating to 110%.  I reduced it to 100%, but I am still destroyed on re-entry.

3 hours ago, eberkain said:

What other mods are you using?  I have been having a real struggle getting pods to survive reentry also. 

1 hour ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

This is the second post I've seen with this question. I've returned a Mk2 pod from the Mun with only 250 Ablator, and a Mk1 pod from Minmus with full Ablator. This is using default settings in Normal mode.

Do you have any way to record an attempt to video? I'd like to observe this, preferably with Kerbal Engineer's Thermal tab open, but I think you can also display heat information using the Physics section of the Cheats window.

KSP Overheat 12.5.2020 - YouTube

Thank you all for your help!  It is much appreciated

[eberkain]

3 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

This is the second post I've seen with this question. I've returned a Mk2 pod from the Mun with only 250 Ablator, and a Mk1 pod from Minmus with full Ablator. This is using default settings in Normal mode.

Do you have any way to record an attempt to video? I'd like to observe this, preferably with Kerbal Engineer's Thermal tab open, but I think you can also display heat information using the Physics section of the Cheats window.

I did one too.  https://youtu.be/nQY2J3R90GY

This is a Mk2 returning from the Mun with full ablator with a 32km Pe.  The pod is heavier than normal because of Kerbalism.  This was recorded in a brand new sandbox game with a super simple craft.  And here are the log files. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1livnUVdpd-TXiXXF7dpkPtAxKn7o0kRM/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLDR7GiHMIW52ds1y5s1r_vOZSMsRXpL/view?usp=sharing  

I see some overlap in our mods, but not a ton.  I assumed the issue I was having came from added heat from FAR, but it doens't look like you have FAR installed. I have been able to return pods by rocking the pod back and forth to distribute heat around, but its been a lot of, quicksave before reentry and trial and error,  

  

 

 

 

 

[lemon cup]

@ble210

Strange! Your Critical Part (part nearest it’s thermal failure limit) was the heat shield for most of the reentry, then in the last split second of flight it switched to your command pod and appears as though that was suddenly and rapidly exposed to full reentry heating, for some reason. I would be inclined to guess the heat shield may have been installed accidentally clipped into the pod slightly, because it is doing it’s job beautifully up until the critical moment when the pod becomes exposed. Also I use Restock as well and to my knowledge those models do not alter the colliders or drag cubes of the parts in question, so that shouldn’t be the culprit...

Edit: upon seeing the footage from @eberkain could we be looking at a stock glitch regarding the Mk.2 pod?

Edited December 5, 2020 by lemon cup

[Ravien]

I recently pushed Keyhole return capsule (BDB) from Mun orbit with rather aggressive periapsis  40-something km, it was left with 1 unit of ablator but survived. (JNSQ normal settings)

[OhioBob]

@ble210 and @eberkain, something definitely looks glitchy there to me.  In neither case did KER ever show the critical part as that which exploded.  I don't think it's a JNSQ problem.

[Gordon Fecyk]

5 hours ago, eberkain said:

his is a Mk2 returning from the Mun with full ablator with a 32km Pe.  The pod is heavier than normal because of Kerbalism.

Ya... that doesn't look right. I use mostly stock parts and Ferram Aerospace, and the Lindor V rocket is pure stock. In my own testing I used KSP 1.7.3 and 1.10.1 with the matching add-ons for that version.

It might be my imagination, but from the video it looks like the pod is ever so slightly wider than the heat shield. That would definitely expose it to shock heating if so.

[OhioBob]

4 hours ago, Ravien said:

I recently pushed Keyhole return capsule (BDB) from Mun orbit with rather aggressive periapsis  40-something km, it was left with 1 unit of ablator but survived. (JNSQ normal settings)

Running out of ablator is really not a big problem.  I run out all the time.  All that ablator does is lower the temperature of the heat shield.  When the ablator runs out, the temperature will increase.  But as long as the increased temperature stays below the 3300 K maximum of the heat shield, you'll be fine.  We just need the ablator to last long enough to get us through the most critical part of reentry.
 

Edited December 6, 2020 by OhioBob

[ble210]

@OhioBob, @lemon cup, @Gordon Fecyk, @eberkain

I didn't move the heatshield into the command pod, so I don't think that is the issue (unless there is another way to unintentionally clip it inside the command pod).   A couple other observations as I think back on my playthrough:

1.  I was never able to get the 0.625 heatshield to work from an orbital re-entry; my craft always exploded.  Using the 1.25 meter heat shield with 0.625 meter parts worked.  It was as though the 0.625 heat shield just wasn't large enough to sufficiently cover the 0.625 meter craft.

2. I also noticed that I was getting a surprising amount of heating on the Onion pod from a 250k orbit (nearly reaching critical) as well.  This was a one-time observation, so it may not actually be insightful.

I'm starting to wonder if there is some issue with Restock or a mod conflict with it of some sort that is causing overheating or non-working heat shields.

Sure appreciate all your insights and help! 

 

[EchoLima]

I posted an issue earlier with a sudden explosion when entering Eve's atmospheric below ~45km. I believe I also had issues with Kerbin reentry from the Mun.

I had FAR and Restock (using the 1.875m heatshield) installed, along with many others. I wonder if there's some issue with the Restock heatshields that's exacerbated by the thicker JNSQ atmospheres.

Edited December 5, 2020 by EchoLima
Exacerbated != Exasperated

[PocketBrotector]

There are some already-suspected potential issues with Restock heat shields here and here.

It would not surprise me if bugs with heat shields and reentry heating become evident only at JNSQ scale or larger, regardless of whether they originate in stock, Restock, or elsewhere. Stock-scale reentry heating is so tame that it can be frequently ignored altogether, unless a craft is coming in from an interplanetary trajectory or something.

I may do some more testing here (I have several missions returning from the Mun and I'm hoping the conquering heroes don't meet an ignominious end of spontaneous combustion.) I'll report back with any results.

[ble210]

55 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

There are some already-suspected potential issues with Restock heat shields here and here.

It would not surprise me if bugs with heat shields and reentry heating become evident only at JNSQ scale or larger, regardless of whether they originate in stock, Restock, or elsewhere. Stock-scale reentry heating is so tame that it can be frequently ignored altogether, unless a craft is coming in from an interplanetary trajectory or something.

I may do some more testing here (I have several missions returning from the Mun and I'm hoping the conquering heroes don't meet an ignominious end of spontaneous combustion.) I'll report back with any results.

Interesting on the reported issues.  I'll be curious what your testing results are; I'm starting to suspect that there may indeed be an issue with certain Restock heat shields, which may have gone unnoticed in the stock system.

[OhioBob]

6 hours ago, EchoLima said:

I wonder if there's some issue with the Restock heatshields that's exacerbated by the thicker JNSQ atmospheres.

By "thicker" do you mean taller or denser?  While the JNSQ atmospheres are taller, they aren't any more dense than stock.  But in either case, that's not the reason why JNSQ is more challenging from a reentry heat standpoint.  The thing about JNSQ that increases the heating are the higher velocities.  For instance, Kerbin escape velocity in stock is about 3.4 km/s, while in JNSQ it's 5.6 km/s.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by OhioBob

[eberkain]

I restored the stock heat shields using the restock whitelist as detailed here.  

https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/wiki/Restoring-Stock-Parts

I then performed the exact same test, and had no reentry issues.  

I think it is safe to say the problem is solved.