KSP2 Hype Train Thread

[The Aziz]

There's a difference of perspective.

Potential customers knew it was going to be released in (unspecified date in) 2022. Now they know it's going to release in early 2023. For them (us) it's a delay.

However, shareholders, people up there in management, in essence everyone related to the publisher knew it was going to be released in Fiscal Year 2023. Now they know it's going to release in Q4 FY2023. For them it's not a delay, only more specific release window - it still fits within planned budget for said FY, and it wasn't extended past what they already knew.

See, my strong hope for 2022 release has gone to hell, and from many games I have been excited for this year I'm left with like a half now (some are below expectations, some delayed), but I am aware that the team only needs a bit more time, and perhaps at internal meeting they got a green light for time extension but only as long as it stays within the current financial plan. So it's not bad. It's later, but it's reasonable, and within the company it's still on schedule.

[joratto]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

Keep reading, I do agree with you. For a lot of us talkin here we all hoped it would be out before Christmas but given the fiscal year thought it might slip into 2023. But you’re right, given some of the statements about 2022 I can see why any reasonable casual observer would call this a 3 month delay. It just depends on what your expectations were and where you take your grains of salt. 
 

I have to set deadlines and give ETAs all the time in my job, and the thing is the world is a chaotic place and you have to be squishy sometimes. If I give an exact date thats the date and I only give it when I feel pretty confident in it and its got some padding for the unforeseen. Sometimes though (especially these days) all we can say is “in 2-4 months”. Now if if that was the estimate and it goes to 5 months thats pushing it but within bounds. If it goes to 7 or 8 months we’ve got explaining to do. So yeah, I even take next march with a grain of salt and wouldn’t be shocked if it slipped later into the spring. Its not a firm date. Its just a good-faith estimate. 

Sure, it's not a delay if you change the definition of the word "delay". Why would any observer, casual or otherwise, change the definition of "delay"?

The devs weren't specific, but they claimed it would come out in 2022, and it won't. Going by the orthodox definition, it's ok to say that it was (rather unsurprisingly) delayed.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I just wish we knew why - which I know is cribbing... But fact is, I have a strong suspicion that multi-player is the anchor around this albatross' neck. 

As in the KSP2 bird could fly just fine without it. 

Like they're saying with consoles being a later date, adding multi-player down the line would be fine for me.  It would let them wrap up and put the finishing touches on the game, ship it, and then maybe break off a team to keep working on the problems with MP while the rest of us get a viable v2 game to play the way 90% of us are going to play it throughout its lifespan. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Pthigrivi]

28 minutes ago, joratto said:

Going by the orthodox definition, it's ok to say that it was (rather unsurprisingly) delayed.

Of course it is! Im in vehement agreement. All Im saying is there were two different date ranges given and so one's expectations are set by which one of those ranges you happened to put the most faith in.

[darthgently]

14 hours ago, PopinFRESH said:

Nah it was open to landing in FY2023 as provided by guidance to investors. It was slated for calendar year 2022 as listed on their forum, Steam store page, etc. It is a delay from what was previously expected as consumers, but still falls within the financial guidance provided to investors.

Always trust the guidance to investors over what marketing comes up with for prospective customers.  Marketing should be called the creativity department at many companies while there are strong rules for the accuracy of information for investors

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

11 minutes ago, darthgently said:

Always trust the guidance to investors over what marketing comes up with for prospective customers.  Marketing should be called the creativity department at many companies while there are strong rules for the accuracy of information for investors

Yep - and the thing we should remember is that the 2022 release expectations were fueled by forecasting. 

Nate's 'rip the band-aid off' post was from 2020 where they likely forecast a best guess given what they hoped to achieve and where they were. 

I wouldn't be surprised if after it's all said and done we learn that the release version is significantly different in scope than what was originally planned by the original studio (despite the announcement trailer) ... So much so that instead of us thinking the release game has been 'in the works' since (whenever) the real work of the final project started anew with the studio / publisher change 

Edited May 17, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Bej Kerman]

18 hours ago, EngineeringWaffle said:

It is a delay. The steam store page said 2022, this forum says 2022, they told us it would be 2022. It wasn't until only a few months ago that they said (in investor guidance) that it would be FY 2023, and given 2022 includes some of FY 2023, that made it sound like late 2022.  Prior to today, there was not a single official source that would suggest KSP 2 would release any later than December 2022. The fact that "financial guidance to investors" left the door open to 2023 is not salient because of course they gave themselves lots of extra room on the investor deadline. Anyone with half a brain who doesn't want to get sued won't promise investors anything they don't have to. Therefore: the release was originally scheduled for 2022. And now it is scheduled for 2023. And that is after 2022, so the game is being delayed.

And I just hope they finally learned their damn lesson and gave themselves some breathing room on that deadline, because the number of times the release date has gone from "a few months away" to "just about a year away" is pretty frustrating.  Early 2020 gets pushed to late 2021 gets pushed to early 2022 gets pushed to late 2022, gets pushed to early 2023. Like, are they actually gonna be done in 9 months? Or are they just going to need to delay it another 6 months and then another? Starting to feel like vaporware at this point. At least if they said 2024 I could close this tab and forget about the game until then. But instead they keep telling us it's just around the corner.

Honestly I completely disagree, and either way I'm not a total fan of that attitude.

18 hours ago, EngineeringWaffle said:

I'm not impatient, I'm okay with waiting, but I'd appreciate an estimate that isn't permanently stuck at "6-9 months away."

Can't have it both ways.

[Bej Kerman]

4 hours ago, darthgently said:

19 hours ago, PopinFRESH said:

Nah it was open to landing in FY2023 as provided by guidance to investors. It was slated for calendar year 2022 as listed on their forum, Steam store page, etc. It is a delay from what was previously expected as consumers, but still falls within the financial guidance provided to investors.

Always trust the guidance to investors over what marketing comes up with for prospective customers.  Marketing should be called the creativity department at many companies while there are strong rules for the accuracy of information for investors

Yes. I hope the community knows now to take the latest estimate, whatever comes up in the financial reports, instead of getting optimistic, then worked up and angry when things don't go according to marketing's flawed interpretation of what FY2023 means.

[The Aziz]

38 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

worked up and angry

I don't know where you look but except for few individuals, I don't see these emotions here.

Plus, that "flawed interpretation" came from Nate himself, 'member? Not community manager, not some unnamed marketing guy, no, Nate Simpson wrote and signed the post. And still there was a ¾ chance it would fit within fy2023. Those were good odds.

[darthgently]

4 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

So much so that instead of us thinking the release game has been 'in the works' since (whenever) the real work of the final project started anew with the studio / publisher change 

Me: Objection, Speculative! 

Hizzhonor:  Sustained.

It isn't that you couldn't have a point, it is that feeding the faint of heart after midnight makes them transform into gloom-posters.  Nobody wants something from scratch.  They all way KSP classic, but B.E.T.T.E.R., lol

Edited May 17, 2022 by darthgently

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

33 minutes ago, darthgently said:

KSP classic, but B.E.T.T.E.R., lol

Frankly - that's what I thought when I first saw the announcement trailer all those years ago.  And yet, after my recent conversations in the hype  / 22 release threads it looks like there are several solar systems available which makes it a much larger game than I first imagined 

If you go through the videos and speculation about them - the consensus is that there is no chance of all those planets around a single star. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[DwightLee]

I know I am in the minority,  but I am good with the early 2023 projection

We need the game done right, not just right now.

[Superfluous J]

I think we should ALL be able to define our own personal years so we can confuse each other.

I know for a fact that KSP2 will come out in 2024 because I define New Year's Day 2024 as the day KSP2 comes out. I'll reverse engineer everything that happened before into that time frame.

[TheOrbitalMechanic]

1 hour ago, DwightLee said:

I know I am in the minority,  but I am good with the early 2023 projection

We need the game done right, not just right now.

I think most people agree with that sentiment, but the ones who don't are just way more vocal. Such is the way of the world, I guess.

1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

I think we should ALL be able to define our own personal years so we can confuse each other.

I know for a fact that KSP2 will come out in 2024 because I define New Year's Day 2024 as the day KSP2 comes out. I'll reverse engineer everything that happened before into that time frame.

2024? Pssh, according to my own definitions, KSP 2 was never delayed at all from its early 2020 release date. 2019 was just 3 years long. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by TheOrbitalMechanic

[StrandedonEarth]

2 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

I know for a fact that KSP2 will come out in 2024 because I define New Year's Day 2024 as the day KSP2 comes out. I'll reverse engineer everything that happened before into that time frame.

Well then, from my perspective KSP2 will be released Kanuary first, 0 A.K (Anno Kerbali. or Year of our Kerbals)

Edited May 18, 2022 by StrandedonEarth

[PopinFRESH]

3 hours ago, TheOrbitalMechanic said:

4 hours ago, DwightLee said:

I know I am in the minority,  but I am good with the early 2023 projection

We need the game done right, not just right now.

I think most people agree with that sentiment, but the ones who don't are just way more vocal. Such is the way of the world, I guess....

I'd concur with @TheOrbitalMechanic, I don't think you are in the minority with that opinion.

[EngineeringWaffle]

10 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Honestly I completely disagree, and either way I'm not a total fan of that attitude.

Can't have it both ways.

I can have it both ways. It's not that it's taking a long time that is annoying me, it's that the game seems to be permanently just around the corner. As I said in my post: I'm okay waiting until 2024 or whatever, it's just annoying because I keep getting my hopes up.

15 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I just wish we knew why - which I know is cribbing... But fact is, I have a strong suspicion that multi-player is the anchor around this albatross' neck. 

As in the KSP2 bird could fly just fine without it. 

Like they're saying with consoles being a later date, adding multi-player down the line would be fine for me.  It would let them wrap up and put the finishing touches on the game, ship it, and then maybe break off a team to keep working on the problems with MP while the rest of us get a viable v2 game to play the way 90% of us are going to play it throughout its lifespan. 

You may be right, but multiplayer requires a different approach to design than single player, especially in a physics based game. Fallout 76 is the result of taking a perfectly serviceable single player engine and trying to make it multiplayer. If you ever plan on making your game multiplayer, you need to start with that in mind, otherwise you will end up really screwed. So, even if multiplayer doesn't come till later down the road, it can still make the single player game harder to develop because everything you build for single player needs to support multiplayer. In a physics based game, this is even more complicated because the physics simulation needs to be delegated somehow.

[WelshSteW]

10 hours ago, darthgently said:

Me: Objection, Speculative! 

Hizzhonor:  Sustained.

It isn't that you couldn't have a point, it is that feeding the faint of heart after midnight makes them transform into gloom-posters.  Nobody wants something from scratch.  They all want KSP classic, but B.E.T.T.E.R., lol

 

This is exactly it. Which is why I hope the devs aren't getting caught up in making KSP2 perfect. It doesn't have to be. It can be improved with patches, DLC, or it could even be followed at some point by KSP3. I said this in the thread with the timing update, but please don't aim for perfection. Just make it better than KSP1. It doesn't have to release with everything in place. I'm not interested in 100s of new planets, that can come later. Lots of little steps is better and easier than a few giant leaps.

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by WelshSteW

[darthgently]

21 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

a strong suspicion that multi-player is the anchor around this albatross' neck. 

Wouldn't that be ironic.  Multiplayer as an $80 DLC in some foggy future is becoming more and more popular in my brain, lol

Edited May 18, 2022 by darthgently

[Pthigrivi]

Aside from multiplayer the most conspicuously held-back set of assets seems to be colony modules. Habitation seems to be deliberately absent from interstellar vessels in the last video and we haven't seen colony assets since the sneak-peak at reactors and fuel factories over a year ago. Those also seemed to have a much more polished look and character than the colony assets we saw in 2020 and earlier, and as we all know they brought Nertea on board last fall. I went back last night and rewatched some of the older dev videos and interviews and noticed some things I hadn't paid attention to at the time. Nate describes two different variants of MH engines, one that can be used in atmosphere that uses large amounts of water and another doped with cesium for vacuum burns. The devs also seem to throw around the word 'snacks' pretty frequently. All this implies potentially a more complex resource system for colonies and travel than many of us imagined, and they may well be deep in developing new assets and testing different gameplay dynamics and how they effect balance and pacing and all that. I'd personally be happy to see colonies and ISRU feel like complex machines in the same way vessels do. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

I'd personally be happy to see colonies and ISRU feel like complex machines in the same way vessels do. 

My worry is too much feature creep.  Is KSP2 a modern refresh of the classic with added features? 

Is KSP2 a massively multi-player online collaborative space game? 

Is it a resource management game that allows you to build your own space ships? 

Or... 

...is it trying to be all of those things? 

[Ryaja]

2 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

My worry is too much feature creep.  Is KSP2 a modern refresh of the classic with added features? 

Is KSP2 a massively multi-player online collaborative space game? 

Is it a resource management game that allows you to build your own space ships? 

Or... 

...is it trying to be all of those things? 

I feel like to be a true sequel it needs to be all or most of those things, but I am no expert.

[Pthigrivi]

18 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Is KSP2 a massively multi-player online collaborative space game? 

Is it a resource management game that allows you to build your own space ships? 

I think no to both, and Nate was pretty emphatic that KSP2 doesn't want to be a management sim with some building and flying attached, it wants be the other way around. At the same time even KSP1 is absolutely about managing resources in space--different fuels, power, heat, etc. and I'd love if colonies follow the same kind of logic, that they were machines with different lego components that consume and produce resources. Otherwise they're just window dressing. Its obviously not Factorio, there are no belts or logic gates, but because of ISRU and off-world VABs and supply routes there is going to be resource inputs and outputs that you'll have to balance. Now, it was some time ago that they talked about water and cesium, so these could have been abstracted or eliminated, but if those are important resources in the game I think it raises a lot of interesting questions about how intermediate resources are produced and combined. Do you need water to produce LH2+02? Or snacks? Is cesium just spent reactor fuel that you can feed into MH engines?

Edited May 18, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[The Aziz]

24 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Is KSP2 a modern refresh of the classic with added features? 

No, it's a new entry in the franchise based on the same design pillars with features made from scratch.

25 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Is KSP2 a massively multi-player online collaborative space game? 

No, it's a space game with a possibility to play with other people. The difference is, it's not built around multiplayer with space setting, it's built around space setting, with option to play online.

28 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Is it a resource management game that allows you to build your own space ships? 

No, it's a game about building and flying rockets where managing resources on some level is required.

Also... "Feature creep" how simple do you want it to be? It is a complex game, was always meant to be, after all we're talking about colonizing outer space. It's nowhere near the point where I'd ask "why would they add this, it's not necessary". I mean for me multiplayer is unnecessary but if enough people wanted it, then I guess they considered it's worth adding. As long as it's still a good singleplayer game with MP aspect, not MP game with badly made singleplayer slapped on top of it (GT Sport, Battlefront 2)

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

It is a complex game, was always meant to be

Can't argue with anything you write - and that's kind of the thing... Just a pure refresh of the original would be a phenomenal undertaking without the added features... But with everything they're hinting at, Holy Schnikes!