KSP2 Hype Train Thread

[Strawberry]

26 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Im so curious about this system, especially because there's no mention at all of contracts or anything like it. We've had a bunch of conversations about whether money needs to be in the game at all, (I lean no). It's a funny thing though because way at the back of development is resource extraction and processing,... so... what happens before that? Are all parts free? Are they free on Kerbin anyway? It seems like there needs to be a fully integrated economy of science research, resource extraction, population management at colonies, etc. for any one part to make sense? Like can we really give coherent feedback on science and progression without knowing the ultimate output--ie colony tech? 

The fact that nothing about career/money is listed on the roadmap makes me more confident in money being a no. The thing Im curious about regarding science is if the whole "resources unlocking new vehicle architecture" thing is still the case, will this not need resource extraction for the unlocking part? Will you just need to collect a sample from the area with that resource (and will it need to be returned? Will there be a reduction in the cost of research for these things if the sample is returned?). Balance is definitely going to be an issue with some of the features missing, however theyll probably make a few stopgap changes to get a better picture of things, colonies will likely be involved in the science progression for example, however before then theyll probably just increase the base modifier for generating science points.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Strawberry

[stephensmat]

I'll admit, Early Access is not what I wanted. But I can see the upsides. The one thing they talked about constantly in that video was community feedback. They had a top modder interviewed about joining the staff. They had the Dev's asking nicely for us to let them know where it's good. Redesigns around how to make it easier for Modders to Mod.

They're definitely trying to bring the fans into the process here.

It's... wildly inconvenient that it looks like Linux support won't be around until after 1.0; but that's an issue that affects me specifically, and not something to blame the game or devs for.

I'm a little surprised that Science is apparently Phase 2, given what a huge part of the first game it was. But looking at the Vids, it's clearly not an expansion of the first game, but a complete rewrite. And as I recall,the first time I tried KSP1, it was just the VAB and a launchpad. (At least, that was as far as I could get until years later). We're going to have to learn how to play this thing all over again. Starting from the Launchpad makes sense. The colonies and other systems are what's new, so that's what we want to see most; but if we have to start over from scratch on everything; (how we design, how we read the map, how we do the math, how we control the craft are all said explicitly to be totally different) then best to start with a few pieces, and start adding more.

I don't think any of us are going to fully grasp just how different an experience this will be from KSP1 until Feb-2023. If it's different enough, then it's absolutely the right release schedule.

[Scarecrow71]

4 hours ago, Art3mis777 said:

Is there an estimate for the timeline for the addition of each of the milestone items? I understand if it's a couple months or a few months between each item, but it would be kind of a bummer for us to wait 6 months to a year for science or interstellar or colonies, which were kind of the entire point of this second game....

Did I miss something?  No science in the early release?  Is the whole thing just sandbox?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, stephensmat said:

I'm a little surprised that Science is apparently Phase 2, given what a huge part of the first game it was

Science wasn't really a thing until later updates. IIRC it didn't come about until ... 0.20 or so? The game had been out in early access for some time. Looks like the new one is going to follow that lead.

[MechBFP]

5 minutes ago, regex said:

Science wasn't really a thing until later updates. IIRC it didn't come about until ... 0.20 or so? The game had been out in early access for some time. Looks like the new one is going to follow that lead.

It definitely begs the question of why they should have to follow that lead given the resources and time the project has already been given in comparison to KSP1 though.

I don’t except we will get that answer for a lot of years though, but eventually someone will spill the beans lol. 

[stephensmat]

2 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

It definitely begs the question of why they should have to follow that lead given the resources and time the project has already been given in comparison to KSP1 though.

I don’t except we will get that answer for a lot of years though, but eventually someone will spill the beans lol. 

I don't know much about game development, but other Early Access games that I've played have had 'groundwork' laid in smaller updates so that the foundations are there when they include new features. Maybe the 'engine' work is close to done, and the rest is beta testing and tweaking the variables. Early Access lets them conscript all of us for feedback.

[Strawberry]

8 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

It definitely begs the question of why they should have to follow that lead given the resources and time the project has already been given in comparison to KSP1 though.

I don’t except we will get that answer for a lot of years though, but eventually someone will spill the beans lol. 

Shadowzone (who interviewed nate simpson right before the ea reveal came out about the ea reveal), summarizes it nicely, basically it not only saves dev time in case players dont like something and said thing is involved in other things (meaning they have to redo those as well), it also allows you to get more specific feedback regarding these features and itll help you validate the core assumptions behind many of the changes.

Timestamped clip of it below

Edited October 22, 2022 by Strawberry

[DwightLee]

3 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Im so curious about this system, especially because there's no mention at all of contracts or anything like it. We've had a bunch of conversations about whether money needs to be in the game at all, (I lean no). 

That would be a shame as career mode is my favorite, but would not be a deal breaker if absent.

[Superfluous J]

15 hours ago, Vl3d said:

We know there was a multiplayer feature video in the plan. I'm just asking where it is 2.5 years after it was mentioned.

I guess I'm just used to dealing with developers who say "I'm going to do this" and then never do it, because things change and plans change.

If they don't use the word "promise" I read it as if they said "Hopefully," at the start. And they never use the word "promise" so I literally assume everything they say is just that: a hopeful.

[MechBFP]

1 minute ago, Strawberry said:

Shadowzone (who interviewed nate simpson right before the ea reveal came out about the ea reveal), summarizes it nicely, basically it not only saves dev time in case players dont like something and said thing is involved in other things (meaning they have to redo those as well), it also allows you to get more specific feedback regarding these features and itll help you validate the core assumptions behind many of the changes.

Timestamped clip of it below

I would be more inclined to give that weight  if that had been the intentions from the start.

I might be wrong but I do believe in the past it was explicitly stated that they had no intentions of doing early access and releasing the full game on day 1.

If so that is a significant departure from their original posture and I have to wonder why the change occurred. 

[stephensmat]

3 minutes ago, DwightLee said:

That would be a shame as career mode is my favorite, but would not be a deal breaker if absent.

Career mode is essentially a guide for how to take the next 'small step'. Contracts get you to the next moon/planet. Tourist contracts to teach you how to improvise multiple missions, or build reusable craft. Costs are built in so you keep from over-designing early rockets. Science contracts show you how to maximize science output, or build craft that can visit several sites before splashdown. By the time you make it to Duna, the tech-tree is unlocked and the money comes rolling in from science points if nothing else. But in the early game, money holds you back a bit until you know what you're doing.

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

I would be more inclined to give that weight  if that had been the intentions from the start.

I might be wrong but I do believe in the past it was explicitly stated that they had no intentions of doing early access and releasing the full game on day 1.

If so that is a significant departure from their original posture and I have to wonder why the change occurred. 

A lot of things went on behind the scenes. The takeover for one, the staff split another, the Pandemic as well. I'm guessing there's more we never heard about. But we got here, is the point.

Fail, Learn, Fail Better. If I could get that in Latin I'd print it on the side of every ship I build in KSP2.

[Strawberry]

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

I might be wrong but I do believe in the past it was explicitly stated that they had no intentions of doing early access and releasing the full game on day 1.

The comments regarding early access have always left the door open to it, it was never a "we wont do early access" it was a "we dont plan on doing early access". It was always something that they were leaving the door open to and clearly had thought about previously. Most likely answer is that as it went along they weren't happy with what they had and they'd rather test the waters with a messy early access release then a bad final release. 

[MechBFP]

2 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Most likely answer is that as it went along they weren't happy with what they had and they'd rather test the waters with a messy early access release then a bad final release. 

That is generally what I am learning towards as well. I assume internal play testing was not going particularly well. Although with a game like KSP I shudder at what random people would say lol. 

[Strawberry]

I dont think it was going poorly, it probably is in a mostly playable state and if released today after a week of bug fixes it would be fine, the team just seems to be holding themselves to a really high standard, which I dont think is a bad thing. The good thing is that Im pretty sure how long early access takes will be dependent on how happy people feel about the game and what they bring back to the table in terms of feedback, which means that if the devs did things well early access should be done in a relatively little time (1-1.5 years would be my guess)

Edited October 22, 2022 by Strawberry

[TLTay]

Best delay announcement ever!

Thanks star citizen theorey!

Now the devs get time to be pressured by the parent company to bring the game to 1.0 by cutting corners and content so DLC and console sales can commence finish the game with the help of fans.

Now they don't need an advertising budget since youtubers will keep it in the shuffle for free with every update.

My guess is that multiple star systems become one additional system plus fluff (lining others up as DLC), key functionality gets held back for DLC, colonies are placeholders to be expanded by DLC, and multiplayer gets cancelled altogether just before 1.0. 

My dudes... it's not even half done. Why the optimism? We were repeatedly told there would be no early access and the game would release when complete. It's not even releasing with game progression... or the key features that make it KSP2. I know we've been waiting a long time, but this is just disappointing. I guess those who said it was vaporware that was nowhere near complete based on the videos weren't far off.

[Scarecrow71]

Ok, guess my question wasn't blunt enough.

People keep mentioning the road map, and that science won't be available until phase 2, and all that.  How do you know this?  Is there some document I missed that details this?  A video somewhere?  Anything?

[TLTay]

2 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Ok, guess my question wasn't blunt enough.

People keep mentioning the road map, and that science won't be available until phase 2, and all that.  How do you know this?  Is there some document I missed that details this?  A video somewhere?  Anything?

Roadmap is under the "announcements" forum, not in the KSP2 section.

[MechBFP]

4 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Ok, guess my question wasn't blunt enough.

People keep mentioning the road map, and that science won't be available until phase 2, and all that.  How do you know this?  Is there some document I missed that details this?  A video somewhere?  Anything?

 

[Guest]

Man, those procedural wings tho... Are we getting proc tanks too? Having a stretchable cone would be amazing for R-7-alikes, the ones intended for that in the original expansions were completely wrong.

[Scarecrow71]

Ok, read the roadmap.  I see nothing in there saying no science in early release.  What did I miss?

[t_v]

3 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Ok, read the roadmap.  I see nothing in there saying no science in early release.  What did I miss?

Science is in the second panel, so it is still in early access, but it won't be there on Feb. 24. What I'm hoping is that there will be a maximum of a few weeks to give feedback on the content in the first panel, and then science is introduced to start giving feedback on it. 

[Alexoff]

34 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Shadowzone (who interviewed nate simpson right before the ea reveal came out about the ea reveal), summarizes it nicely, basically it not only saves dev time in case players dont like something and said thing is involved in other things (meaning they have to redo those as well), it also allows you to get more specific feedback regarding these features and itll help you validate the core assumptions behind many of the changes.

So you assume that the development of the game is going according to plan, but in order for the game to become even more epoch-making, the developers decided to release a stripped-down version for us to thoroughly test it? Do you know that the publisher in their annual report promised investors to release the game before April 2023, and KSP2 is the most promising product of the private division? Money was invested in the game and the franchise, the publisher wants to make a profit, the game is not ready, the developer is sure that he will not be able to finish his career by February. Which exit? Release what is ready at a discount. It's not about the consumer or the product, it's about the money of the publisher and its shareholders.

[Rutabaga22]

4 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Ok, read the roadmap.  I see nothing in there saying no science in early release.  What did I miss?

In the second cell of the roadmap it says "Science" it mentions it will have progression in that update.

[Alexoff]

6 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I see nothing in there saying no science in early release.  What did I miss?

Step 1 - early acess

Step 2 - science and tech tree...

[Superfluous J]

42 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I might be wrong but I do believe in the past it was explicitly stated that they had no intentions of doing early access and releasing the full game on day 1.

If so that is a significant departure from their original posture and I have to wonder why the change occurred. 

I recall this too. I distinctly recall them saying it would be a full game and be $59.99

I assume the change occurred because they are stuck between a rock (you MUST release early 2022) and a hard place (but it's not going to be done by then).