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Kerbal Space Program 2 to be released in 2022 [Discussion Thread]

Arco123

By Arco123
in Prelaunch KSP2 Discussion

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shdwlrd

shdwlrd

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, epicfailure2020 said:

than make it really expensive to test. like a preorder thing.

or give it only to specific people.

No, it's still a bad idea. Pandaman says it the best. (See below) Plus Squad tried that with the 1.0 release, it wasn't the best decision they made. 

1 hour ago, pandaman said:

With respect.  This is exactly why I think early release/beta is a bad idea.

Too many want just want to 'play it now'.  And the devs would be forced to use time and resources to support and maintain a product that is just not ready.

 

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pandaman

pandaman

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, epicfailure2020 said:

i will agree to disagree. 

Fair enough.  I understand your impatience, and disappointnent in having to wait even longer.  I feel it too.

However, imagine playing it without all the features working properly,  graphics not fully developed and with numerous glitches and worse, all interrupting your fun, and potentially clouding your judgement and spoiling your enjoyment of the final product. 

Now put yourself in the devs shoes, receiving lots of complaints and 'suggestions' about what they already know is broken or unfinished,  for something they never wanted to release because they knew it wasn't ready.  It would be both frustrating and waste a lot of their time trying to make the 'pre release' version acceptably playable, and probably result in delaying the 'finished' version even more.

The vast majority of 'players' wouldn't provide useful feedback and bug reports, that takes time - a LOT of time - to do it well, it's not just a case of playing and just making notes and posting on the forum when something bad happens.  Sifting through the 'reports' to sort out the useful information from the garbage would use even more devs time.  Far better to leave the playtesting to a proper QA team, especially at this early stage.

Sorry, turned into a bit of a rant...

Yes the extra delay is a bit of a 'downer', but the end product will almost certainly be better as a result.

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K^2

K^2

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, pandaman said:

The vast majority of 'players' wouldn't provide useful feedback and bug reports

There's a way to run a closed beta with requirements that any participants wait for crash reports to upload. That can be extremely useful in catching some more illusive, yet very annoying crashes, as well as making sure the game runs stable across variety of PC configurations.

But we're talking few months before release timeline here, when game is feature-complete and devs are just ironing out bugs.

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pandaman

pandaman

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, K^2 said:

There's a way to run a closed beta with requirements that any participants wait for crash reports to upload. That can be extremely useful in catching some more illusive, yet very annoying crashes, as well as making sure the game runs stable across variety of PC configurations.

But we're talking few months before release timeline here, when game is feature-complete and devs are just ironing out bugs.

Absolutely, and that may well be a worthwhile option.  But as you know, that is effectively enlarging the QA team rather than a proper 'pre-release', as those taking part will need to be selected and almost certainly sign NDAs.

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K^2

K^2

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, pandaman said:

Absolutely, and that may well be a worthwhile option.  But as you know, that is effectively enlarging the QA team rather than a proper 'pre-release', as those taking part will need to be selected and almost certainly sign NDAs.

Correction, it's enlarging your QA for free, having people line up for the selection process, and generating hype for the game while you're at it. :sticktongue:

But yes, it's not at all the same as letting community at large play the game. I'm just saying, there's a way to get useful debug data from people who are just playing the game and aren't filling out bug reports.

 

Side note, I used to work for an MMO studio where we had an automated system for collecting crash reports. Now, you'd get an actual memory dump from maybe one crash in twenty if you're lucky, but we had a sneaky workaround. When the game crashed, the crash reporter would generate a mini-dump, which is a small enough file with just thread info and stack contents, and send it to our servers before it'd pop up the "Sorry, there was a crash, uploading crash report" window, which most people close on sight. So we always had at least some basic info on what went wrong, even if nobody bothered to wait for an upload of the full crash dump.

Comments with anything other than, "Stupid game crashed again," or insults towards dev team were even more rare, but when somebody would spend time describing how the crash happened, it has often been helpful in tracking down the problem faster. So if you are fed up with your favorite game crashing, and it does give you an option to describe what happened, putting some info in there might get the problem fixed faster. Just saying.

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The Aziz

The Aziz

Posted
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31 minutes ago, K^2 said:

way to get useful debug data from people who are just playing the game and aren't filling out bug reports.

I hope I don't have to remind about general community reaction to anonymous data collection in ksp1.

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K^2

K^2

Posted
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1 minute ago, The Aziz said:

I hope I don't have to remind about general community reaction to anonymous data collection in ksp1.

It's generally a good idea to inform people that you are going to be sending in usage statistics and/or crash reports, as well as provide ways to opt-out. It has effectively become a legal requirement in the past few years due to EU laws and games have been getting pretty good at following these. But that just means you put info into EULA, which players will accept, and the opt-out option somewhere deep in the settings, which few people will go looking for.

And while I can see how use of user metrics for marketing might make people uncomfortable, and it's definitely worth discussing, automated bug reporting is something I firmly believe in. Yes, opting out should be a thing, but having it enabled by default makes everyone's lives better.

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Bamsplatter808

Bamsplatter808

Posted
Posted

As an engineer, I can understand the desire to be perfect, but nothing is ever perfect.  At some point, you are going to have to stop designing and release the product.  If you feel so compelled, follow up with updates.  The most perfect product will never get seen by the public.

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Superfluous J

Superfluous J

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bamsplatter808 said:

As an engineer, I can understand the desire to be perfect, but nothing is ever perfect.  At some point, you are going to have to stop designing and release the product.  If you feel so compelled, follow up with updates.  The most perfect product will never get seen by the public.

As an engineer, you have also had the situation where everybody wants you to "just finish" something you know is woefully unprepared for release, and can't "just" be finished all simple like that.

You can't wait for it to be perfect. But you also can't shove it out the door unfinished.

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DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc

DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ya know, something i noticed that's kind of Bipolar in this forum is the behavior of the forum members. For example: KSP2 get delayed to 2022 But then Half the forum likes the post*? Does that make any sense? Its almost like people want the game to get delayed XD...

I wonder how kerbals would react?

Please Note: "Half the Forum" is an exaggeration used to emphasize what im trying to say so dont start attacking me now XD!

Edited by DAFATRONALDO2007 IN SPACE
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RealKerbal3x

RealKerbal3x

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, DAFATRONALDO2007 IN SPACE said:

Ya know, something i noticed that's kind of Bipolar in this forum is the behavior of the forum members. For example: KSP2 get delayed to 2022 But then Half the forum likes the post*? Does that make any sense? Its almost like people want the game to get delayed XD...

I would guess that people are appreciative that the developers are making an effort to keep us posted on the game and its development, and the like button is a convenient way to express that appreciation - even if it's on a post revealing bad news. I doubt there are many who actually want the game to be delayed.

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DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc

DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

I would guess that people are appreciative that the developers are making an effort to keep us posted on the game and its development, and the like button is a convenient way to express that appreciation - even if it's on a post revealing bad news. I doubt there are many who actually want the game to be delayed.

I'm definitely not one of those people :). i really believe that 2022 will be the final delay and 2023 delay will not happen. so to me, i think i have good news for once. ya know, We have amazing and passionate developers and i feel really bad for those video games who have bad developers and forums. thank goodness for KSP!

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Bej Kerman

Bej Kerman

Posted
Posted
On 11/22/2020 at 10:55 PM, dprostock said:

 A simulator is a game unless you're using it for professional-related training, sim-people elitism never cease to amaze me, too scared of admitting that you spend tons of money in toys as an adult?

Toys that might help you get you a job at Nasa.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Toys that might help you get you a job at Nasa.

And I would argue that that has more to do with the fact that KSP makes orbital mechanics fun than with the quality of the simulation it offers.

 

IMOH a "sim" is actually less than a game, it's just a mechanism, a feature on which you can build a game on. A "pure" simulator is a D&D manual with no campaing, master or players included.

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Snark

Snark

Posted
Posted

Some content has been removed.

Folks, it's fine to have a lively debate.  But let's please keep it friendly, and not descend to personal remarks.

The following points are self-evidently obvious, but it would appear that perhaps a refresher may be in order:

  • People have opinions.  Not everyone has the same opinion.  That means that some people will have a very different opinion from yours.  And that's okay.
  • You are not in any position to tell anyone that their opinion is wrong, or that yours is better than theirs.  Because they're just opinions.
  • It is, of course, fine to explain why you have a different opinion from someone else.  But please do not do so in a way that's insulting to others.
  • Naturally, just because you explain the reasons for your opinion doesn't oblige anyone else to agree with it.
  • Similarly, if someone disagrees with your opinion, it's entirely inappropriate for you to take it personally.
  • It is never appropriate to make personal remarks.  For example, claiming that someone else doesn't understand things as well as you do.  Please address the post, not the poster.

I trust that we can all comport ourselves like civil adults?

Thank you for your understanding.

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