Ooglak Kerman Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 Whooo... One does NOT want to have a ship targeted if you intend to just auto-circularize the orbit. That could be "exciting" under certain circumstances. Is there a quick, easy to unset a target other than clicking on it and unsetting? Well... at least for my game, previously launched ships do not have the issue. All newly launched ships do have it - within an SOI, they can rendezvous at any distance. I tried different SOI and I saved a ship at Jool, quit and restarted. Still there. I've also tried it in various games that have varying mods It makes no sense. How can previously launched ships not have the feature, but newly launched ones do? Hopefully this weekend, I'll spend some time and find where the issue first manifests and test behaviors across upgrades. If anyone else - @obnox twin @modus - could test this it would be awesome. I'd like to know if it's a qwirk of my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 Separately, I'm wondering how Blueshift affects the design of warships. Small, maneuverable, hard to hit ships can't easily be warp capable due to the size of the warp drive. Whit auto circularize, ships can quickly jump to extremely close range of the enemy. Aid or reinforcements can be sent across the kerbol system in minutes, not years. Dipping into the no warp zone too close to each planet might be an interesting strategy, as their warp tactics no longer work and it's just like standard battle. Warp rings are big, easy to hit, hard to armor targets, so the first thing you may want to target is an enemy's warp drive. Oh, and then there's warp-ramming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakete Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 (edited) War ? When did KSP turn into a war game ? I need a "laser powered goblin smasher" (to quote a song by Gloryhammer). *sing* ... "my steel will blow you away, fighting mega battles every day...." *sing* Sorry for the off-topic, but I couldn't resist, cause the warship thing caused this song to come up in my mind... Edited June 18, 2022 by Rakete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooglak Kerman Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 3 hours ago, SkyFall2489 said: Separately, I'm wondering how Blueshift affects the design of warships. Small, maneuverable, hard to hit ships can't easily be warp capable due to the size of the warp drive. Whit auto circularize, ships can quickly jump to extremely close range of the enemy. Aid or reinforcements can be sent across the kerbol system in minutes, not years. Dipping into the no warp zone too close to each planet might be an interesting strategy, as their warp tactics no longer work and it's just like standard battle. Warp rings are big, easy to hit, hard to armor targets, so the first thing you may want to target is an enemy's warp drive. Oh, and then there's warp-ramming... Warp capability in conjunction with gravatic means that it's a conflict primarily with drones and a thing of resource availability. Any ship/station just sitting in orbit beyond warp cut-off would be subject to the sudden close appearance of a warp drone with suitable boomage. The winner would be whoever could keep an intact supply chain for the longest and then be the last to retain sufficient warp resource supplies aboard ship(s) to finish the conflict. This sort of thing would wind down very quickly as supply chains were removed from the equation and warp critical resources were consumed and not replaced. Conflicts are, ever were, and always will be things of supply chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 54 minutes ago, Rakete said: War ? When did KSP turn into a war game ? I need a "laser powered goblin smasher" (to quote a song by Gloryhammer). *sing* ... "my steel will blow you away, fighting mega battles every day...." *sing* Sorry for the off-topic, but I couldn't resist, cause the warship thing caused this song to come up in my mind... Since a very, very long time ago. https://www.youtube.com/c/MaceyDean And more... 16 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said: Warp capability in conjunction with gravatic means that it's a conflict primarily with drones and a thing of resource availability. Any ship/station just sitting in orbit beyond warp cut-off would be subject to the sudden close appearance of a warp drone with suitable boomage. The winner would be whoever could keep an intact supply chain for the longest and then be the last to retain sufficient warp resource supplies aboard ship(s) to finish the conflict. This sort of thing would wind down very quickly as supply chains were removed from the equation and warp critical resources were consumed and not replaced. Conflicts are, ever were, and always will be things of supply chains. Huh, didn't think of this in terms of supply chains. I'm thinking about warp but no gravitic. Maybe fusion though. Yeah, everything important would have to be kept below warp cutoff to have any chance of existing after the first few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Kerman Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 5 hours ago, SkyFall2489 said: Separately, I'm wondering how Blueshift affects the design of warships. Small, maneuverable, hard to hit ships can't easily be warp capable due to the size of the warp drive. Whit auto circularize, ships can quickly jump to extremely close range of the enemy. Aid or reinforcements can be sent across the kerbol system in minutes, not years. Dipping into the no warp zone too close to each planet might be an interesting strategy, as their warp tactics no longer work and it's just like standard battle. Warp rings are big, easy to hit, hard to armor targets, so the first thing you may want to target is an enemy's warp drive. Oh, and then there's warp-ramming... I haven't done any armed conflict in my KSP games in a long time. Last time I had BD Armory installed, it was for set dressing. Nowadays, my kerbal nations got sick of war during their last world war conflict, and now they "fight" by earning Reputation and bragging rights to be the first to accomplish something. Anyway, the History channel did an episode on space warfare: I suspect we'd see more of the same, but with the rapid response abilities of warp travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Kerman Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 14 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said: Whooo... One does NOT want to have a ship targeted if you intend to just auto-circularize the orbit. That could be "exciting" under certain circumstances. Is there a quick, easy to unset a target other than clicking on it and unsetting? Well... at least for my game, previously launched ships do not have the issue. All newly launched ships do have it - within an SOI, they can rendezvous at any distance. I tried different SOI and I saved a ship at Jool, quit and restarted. Still there. I've also tried it in various games that have varying mods It makes no sense. How can previously launched ships not have the feature, but newly launched ones do? Hopefully this weekend, I'll spend some time and find where the issue first manifests and test behaviors across upgrades. If anyone else - @obnox twin @modus - could test this it would be awesome. I'd like to know if it's a qwirk of my system. I can look into an "Unset target" button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 23 minutes ago, Angel-125 said: I haven't done any armed conflict in my KSP games in a long time. Last time I had BD Armory installed, it was for set dressing. Nowadays, my kerbal nations got sick of war during their last world war conflict, and now they "fight" by earning Reputation and bragging rights to be the first to accomplish something. Anyway, the History channel did an episode on space warfare: I suspect we'd see more of the same, but with the rapid response abilities of warp travel. I suspect that history channel vid is not the most accurate - antimatter weapons are a huge step up compared to other tech shown in the video. For near future, this is a good representation: https://www.childrenofadeadearth.com/ The people who made this really did their homework, looking at things from AI control to laser cooling to sloped armor and whipple shields. Plus, KSP is much different than real life. Very few parts in the game have impact tolerances high enough to survive a 100 m/s shot from a firework launcher, the current weapon of choice for KSP players. Combined with rapid fire and armor often being very laggy, it's very easy to attack and hard to defend. There's no targeting control except SAS, which only aims at where the target is, not where it will be, so aim is hard. The result is a much different environment than IRL space combat. Warp drives just speed things up and make range no longer an issue, but still put a lot of pressure on supply chains. With warp, you can jump across the system with supplies or reinfocements in minutes. Jumpgates might become important points to control. In all, it's going to be very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooglak Kerman Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Angel-125 said: I can look into an "Unset target" button. With such a button, you would be heralded as a heroic hero of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said: With such a button, you would be heralded as a heroic hero of the game. Might even be enough for its own mod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooglak Kerman Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, SkyFall2489 said: Might even be enough for its own mod! The WildBlue Industries Detargetalizer. With large friendly letters reading "Remain Calm" And helpful voice action "Are you sure you want to do that? By Detargetalizing, you acknowledge that you are no longer Targeting and WBI assumes no responsibility for the outcome of said Detargetalization" Edited June 19, 2022 by Ooglak Kerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Ooglak Kerman said: The WildBlue Industries Detargetalizer. With large friendly letters reading "Remain Calm" And helpful voice action "Are you sure you want to do that? By Detargetalizing, you acknowledge that you are no longer Targeting and WBI assumes no responsibility for the outcome of said Detargetalization" Thing is, it doesn't seem to be the type of mod that @Angel-125 specializes in. Maybe something for @linuxgurugamer, their mods seem to be more like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakete Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) But if Linux does it, it's not a slim mod anymore. You always get two or three dependencies on top in the mods, even in adopted mods. Toolbar controllers and stuff. Just sayin' Edited June 19, 2022 by Rakete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Possible bug: If a warp drive and RCS are on but no other engines, the game thinks that no engines are on and RCS thrusts forward when throttle is non-zero. So far only encountered with a relatively large modlist, requires further testing. Steps to reproduce: 1. make a warp capable ship with RCS ports that face backward and fuel for them 2. turn on RCS 3. turn on the drive 4. throttle up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Wait, we don't need an unset target button! I just remembered that if you double left click on empty space or your own vessel it unsets the target. @Rakete, @Ooglak Kerman, @Angel-125, we've all been on a wild goose chase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooglak Kerman Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 5 hours ago, SkyFall2489 said: Wait, we don't need an unset target button! I just remembered that if you double left click on empty space or your own vessel it unsets the target. @Rakete, @Ooglak Kerman, @Angel-125, we've all been on a wild goose chase. I tried the double click on empty space and that does not work. Did not try on my own vessel though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said: I tried the double click on empty space and that does not work. Did not try on my own vessel though. Huh. Was that map view or standard view? I don't remember. Oh, and double clicking on another vessel in standard view sets that as target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjt36 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 On 6/18/2022 at 12:06 AM, Ooglak Kerman said: Whooo... One does NOT want to have a ship targeted if you intend to just auto-circularize the orbit. That could be "exciting" under certain circumstances. Is there a quick, easy to unset a target other than clicking on it and unsetting? Well... at least for my game, previously launched ships do not have the issue. All newly launched ships do have it - within an SOI, they can rendezvous at any distance. I tried different SOI and I saved a ship at Jool, quit and restarted. Still there. I've also tried it in various games that have varying mods It makes no sense. How can previously launched ships not have the feature, but newly launched ones do? Hopefully this weekend, I'll spend some time and find where the issue first manifests and test behaviors across upgrades. If anyone else - @obnox twin @modus - could test this it would be awesome. I'd like to know if it's a qwirk of my system. In my limited testing I've found that both newly launched as well as "legacy" starships respect both SOI and distance limitations when utilizing the Auto-circularize function. However..... .... My original issue is still there ... namely that the Auto-circularize button doesn't re-appear after shutting down a warp engine. In order to see it, I need to switch to a distant target and return to the hypership ... then it shows up. Also, Auto-circularize is no longer an option for Action Sets ... it used to be... not sure if this is intentional or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooglak Kerman Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 On 6/21/2022 at 12:55 PM, pjt36 said: In my limited testing I've found that both newly launched as well as "legacy" starships respect both SOI and distance limitations when utilizing the Auto-circularize function. However..... .... My original issue is still there ... namely that the Auto-circularize button doesn't re-appear after shutting down a warp engine. In order to see it, I need to switch to a distant target and return to the hypership ... then it shows up. Also, Auto-circularize is no longer an option for Action Sets ... it used to be... not sure if this is intentional or not. I just did not understand how it could work the way it was for me. I'm just gonna go with that it's something wonky about my game save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjt36 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 And one more small issue ... now in interstellar space, but Spacial Location still shows as Planetary. ... Might that have something to do with the fact that Kopernicus and Outer Planets Mod are installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakete Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 2 hours ago, pjt36 said: And one more small issue ... now in interstellar space, but Spacial Location still shows as Planetary. ... Might that have something to do with the fact that Kopernicus and Outer Planets Mod are installed? Can not confirm with Kopernicus and OPM installed. Neither the missing button for auto-circularization, nor the Planetary-Spacial-Location-Display in the PAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modus Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Same here, everything working fine with those mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjt36 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 35 minutes ago, Rakete said: Can not confirm with Kopernicus and OPM installed. Neither the missing button for auto-circularization, nor the Planetary-Spacial-Location-Display in the PAW. Wonderful ... thanks for checking ... of course now I have to figure out which mod is making the warpdrive cranky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooglak Kerman Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) Well.. if it doesn't have a Scotty, of course the drive is going to be cranky! I have Kopernicus and OPM installed and just completed a mission to Sarnus and all the expected buttons and displays are in place. Edited June 25, 2022 by Ooglak Kerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyFall2489 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Bug: deprecated parts show up in the blueshift category filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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