This game is dead?

[gussi111]

19 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

 Where does that kind of entitlement come from anyway that you think the devs should act in any fashion other than how they want to? Are you a shareholder or something?

calm down jeez.....

[razark]

20 minutes ago, gussi111 said:

calm down jeez.....

Exactly.

[adsii1970]

Hey, folks, no one but your friendly moderator stopping in for lunch to see what all the commotion is about...

It's only human to speculate about game release dates, rumors about game release dates, and whether or not games are "dead."  And it's only human nature to believe your opinion is the only one that matters. However, let's keep in mind that the forum guidelines do state:

Forum guideline 2.2d: Insults and threats, stalking, bullying or any other behavior construed to be of a potentially rude, slanderous, accusatory, combative or otherwise harassing nature to/of another person;

Forum guideline 2.2h: Content with no proof of concept or factual basis (e.g. "free energy" machines), conspiratorial and lacking evidence (e.g. flat Earth, Moon hoax), denial of historic events (e.g. Holocaust);

With these two forum guidelines in mind, let us take a moment to remember that it is perfectly okay to disagree with one another. But it is unacceptable to use personal attacks or comments regarding other forum members. It is also unacceptable to promote rumors and conspiracy theories about any topic - including the development of Kerbal Space Program 2 - on this forum. We all agreed to the forum guidelines when we created our forum user account.

Please feel free to continue to discuss Kerbal Space Program, the delays in the release in the game, and everything else you want to discuss. There's a lot of material on this forum (and in the gaming online magazines) about the development of Kerbal Space Program 2 and expected release time frames. Discuss features, what the game should/should not include, but let's not add one theory about how KSP2 isn't going to happen.

Rarely will a game get this far into production and suddenly stop - except if the gaming production company is Maxis Studios or Atari!

[darthgently]

2 hours ago, tater said:

The trailer (initial) said PC/console. The current page https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/game/kerbal-space-program-2/

has "PC Game, PS4, and Xbox One" at the bottom of the page, scroll down.

So yeah, it's dead to me—and I have both a PC, and a PS4 in the house.

 

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that

I had a work Macbook for awhile 10 years ago and since traveling with 2 laptops is not preferable I got used to it.  I got many tools designed for linux mostly to run on the Macbook.  It is too long ago for me to remember exactly what, but generally, at the time anyway, the OS was basically a branch of (iirc) BSD unix so nearly anything from linux could be made to work. 

Anyway, the point being, maybe this doesn't mean that KSP2 can't run on Mac, just that it will be an exercise left to the player to make it so

Edited March 28, 2022 by darthgently

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

hey, it's just some "if I were them, I would do xy because of z" - thoughts... isn't it allowed to say that anymore?

I thought that's what people do all the time... e.g. when the talk about what NASA, SpaceX, Boeing, ESA and all the others do...

Don't take it personally, I also have the same question for anyone who thinks any company should do x,y,z. Unless they are an expert in their field of business, have a material vested interest in the company, or the company has specifically solicited their opinion,  I truly don't understand why they would think their view will hold any actual real value to them.

[kerbiloid]

43 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

any company should do x,y,z

Any company is expected to do x,y,z, as the gamers of KSP, TES, Minecraft, Sims, etc. are the same animal species with same instincts and reactions. 

So, to herd them they are expected to follow some common practices based on the long-time human experience.

Otherwise the herd may get dismissed or captured by another farmer.

 

3 hours ago, razark said:

The worst-case scenario here is that "video game that doesn't exist continues to not exist."  Hardly a catastrophe

"Hardly a catastrophe" ?

Where should Kerbals live?

Don't you want to say, their world is not real?

The fate of the entire space-faring civilization hangs in the balance.
Of the civilisation which has visited various planets, rather than humans, by the way.

[sunnypunny]

1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

Don't take it personally, I also have the same question for anyone who thinks any company should do x,y,z. Unless they are an expert in their field of business, have a material vested interest in the company, or the company has specifically solicited their opinion,  I truly don't understand why they would think their view will hold any actual real value to them.

how dare the average consumer ever question or criticise our mighty multinational corporation without the proper qualifications! 

somehow i missed the Jim Sterling video on this topic, but after seeing that (along with my impending "conspiracy theorist" forum title as a result of reading that one Forbes article), i think i'll go write some code for a while

[razark]

57 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Where should Kerbals live?

In KSP1, of course.

[tater]

2 hours ago, darthgently said:

Anyway, the point being, maybe this doesn't mean that KSP2 can't run on Mac, just that it will be an exercise left to the player to make it so

No linux, either (for KSP2). There is now a linux build running for Apple silicon, so that's just a matter of time.

I have nothing against Windows, BTW, and I have a windows machine—but it's not in the room where my iMac is (current KSP rig), which is where my Mac Studio will be this evening (assuming it arrives as it is supposed to). The little den would sound like a factory with a PC in it blazing away. My requirement for my KSP machine is pretty much dead silence.

 

[darthgently]

36 minutes ago, tater said:

No linux, either (for KSP2).

Ouch.  How did I know know this.  I really dislike Windows.   Are they ditching mono then? That would be an upside I suppose.  I'm unclear how connected at the hip Unity and Mono may or may not be, but KSP2 is still going with Unity I thought, which should make linux support fairly direct if they choose to do that at some point.   I'm torn now.  I may end up playing KSP1 forever, lol

Edited March 28, 2022 by darthgently

[shdwlrd]

29 minutes ago, tater said:

No linux, either (for KSP2). There is now a linux build running for Apple silicon, so that's just a matter of time.

Maybe they are going to rely on Valve's Proton for Linux game play. (Or some other Windows to Linux translation program.) Maybe they already have someone running the game in Linux using translation software and they are reporting no major issues. We just don't know. 

Linux for the M1 chip, that was quicker than expected. There maybe hope for an Apple exclusive build in the future.

[darthgently]

31 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

Maybe they are going to rely on Valve's Proton for Linux game play. (Or some other Windows to Linux translation program.) Maybe they already have someone running the game in Linux using translation software and they are reporting no major issues. We just don't know. 

Linux for the M1 chip, that was quicker than expected. There maybe hope for an Apple exclusive build in the future.

I'm reading old and new stuff around the web and catching up on all this.  I had a big blind spot because I just assumed that because linux was the original platform for KSP1 and it expanded from there that KSP2 would at least linux would be kept in the mix.  But yeah, we really don't know.  And as you note there is Proton. 

If it speeds things up for the devs in getting to release to only deal with DirectX and leverage Proton, fine by me.  But I hope it would be a temporary thing

But if it is Windows only that would be hard to swallow.   When trying to keep my Windows installs clean and spartan and calm in the past it seems MS stomps in with every update like an annoying salesman/handyman at dinnertime rearranging my furniture, slapping some MS promo posters on the wall, installing bidets in kitchen sink, and feeding my dog beans.  All the while telling me how vital he is to keeping my house in order.  It is like being a homeowner but some joker keeps walking in claiming he is the landlord.  Bleah </rant>

Edited March 28, 2022 by darthgently

[Superfluous J]

I'm trying to imagine KSP2 arriving on Steam without months of buildup beforehand, and someone saying "Meh. I lost all hype for it when they didn't talk about it enough. I'll pass."

[sunnypunny]

Actually if the publisher wanted to shutter this game, this would be how they'd go about it. There's also at least one precedent - SimCity. EA bought the franchise with the intent of ending it, and did so using various methods - including adding multiplayer to a game that nobody wanted it in, for the sole purpose of DRM. Since nothing has been said about MP in KSP2, the same approach could be used for this. Why publishers decide to ruin games I'm unsure of - maybe it's about a quick buck, or maybe they think certain games / franchises threaten the rest of their market. KSP could definitely be that, as a game that teaches people rocket science - in this case it could be government or some other entity who doesn't want this kind of knowledge in the hands of everyday people, or that entertainment tycoons think a game that successfully blends education with entertainment undermines their strategy of peddling flashy trash without any substance for maximum profit.

Since I spent part of the thread getting lectured about good faith, that's me giving it to the OP's case. It's definitely possible, and if EA owned this game I'd say it's highly probable. But this publisher has yet to establish such a bad rep beyond suing a few modders, so it seems unlikely - unless this was their first foray into the EA business style. It seems more likely they are trying to maximise their profits by providing a higher level of polish and wider appeal to a game that is only really popular inside its niche, and that's the reason for the delays along with buying out the original studio who was going to release it 2 years ago in the early access state that we're used to.

 

[TLTay]

I think it'll be okay. I get the impression that Nate and Tom at the very least seem to actually care about the franchise and the product that is released, which is more than can be said for the people designing many games. I think it's in good hands, it's just been unfortunately delayed due to circumstances. Besides, compare the videos from 2019 to the current product and tell me it's not at least much prettier now. I'm sure they've been putting that kind of effort into everything else, too. All is well.

[MechBFP]

3 hours ago, sunnypunny said:

how dare the average consumer ever question or criticise our mighty multinational corporation without the proper qualifications! 

somehow i missed the Jim Sterling video on this topic, but after seeing that (along with my impending "conspiracy theorist" forum title as a result of reading that one Forbes article), i think i'll go write some code for a while

You misunderstand, you can sill provide critique without qualification, I am just saying it is likely to be as productive as yelling at a wall to move.

Edited March 29, 2022 by MechBFP

[Pthigrivi]

3 hours ago, TLTay said:

I think it'll be okay. I get the impression that Nate and Tom at the very least seem to actually care about the franchise and the product that is released, which is more than can be said for the people designing many games. 

Agreed, and lots of other folks who we have and haven't seen mentioned on this board and in the dev blogs and videos like Shana and Eric and the whole creative team, not to mention Squad who’s mostly been folded in.  I mean it's very easy to say that developers + publishers chief aim is to make money, and you'd be on entirely firm ground asserting that. But there are also all these folks in the background who really do seem genuinely passionate about making KSP2 a great game, and in the end if it is and it has great gameplay and longevity thats going to translate into great reviews and a growing fanbase and more money anyway. It's not zero sum. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[kerbiloid]

5 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

I'm trying to imagine KSP2 arriving on Steam without months of buildup beforehand

"48 months is still months."

 

2 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

 I mean it's very easy to say that developers + publishers chief aim is to make money, and you'd be on entirely firm ground asserting that. But there are also all these folks in the background

I can remember the collective laughter of the same KSP2 protagonists, when some people (including me) were saying that once KSP-2 has appeared, KSP-1 will be immediately cancelled.

"No, no! Both games will live together, with ponies and cookies! The KSP-1 development won't stop!"

So, what do we see irl? We were wrong.
KSP-1 has been cancelled even before KSP-2 appears.

And yes, we now have a proof that developers + publishers chief aim is to make money.

***

Nobody says that KSP-2 should be born prematurely.

But please don't tell that after several years of development they don't have terabytes of short test videos with essential game mechanics in process.
If they are, why not just be publishing some of them (instead of the Kerbal smiles)?
Just to have the gamers calm about the game existence.

***

Though I'm definitely not a fan of Linux, and even more of Mac, I'm shocked why could someone break their support, when the original game is already multiplatform, Unity is multiplatform, and unlikely KSP-2 requires so much specific abilities, that it's easier to drop those platform support from the code than to implement them. After all, it's a spacecraft simulator.

The only reason I can see, the problem is not in the code portability, but in limited ability of the Lin/Mac live support due to decreased and limited human resources.
But it's not an allegation, it's a hypothesis.

Edited March 29, 2022 by kerbiloid

[Superfluous J]

10 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

"48 months is still months."

KSP2 also has not yet been released. I am presuming than some time in the months before it is released, someone from somewhere will say something about it.

10 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

And yes, we now have a proof that developers + publishers chief aim is to make money.

Here's a secret: My chief aim while doing my job is to make money.

Oh I forgot one:

15 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

KSP-1 has been cancelled even before KSP-2 appears.

So it seems that KSP1 development ending and KSP2 being released have nothing to do with each other.

[kerbiloid]

46 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

Here's a secret: My chief aim while doing my job is to make money.

And that's exactly why the optimistic developer words were costing nothing before and cost nothing now.

47 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

So it seems that KSP1 development ending and KSP2 being released have nothing to do with each other.

It seems that the realists were saying "Don't believe the sweet words."

[The Aziz]

6 hours ago, sunnypunny said:

There's also at least one precedent - SimCity. EA bought the franchise with the intent of ending it

EA reaches extreme values on bad publishers scale, so using it as an example here isn't the best idea. Besides, they made SimCity and not a long time later Cities Skylines arrived, which is arguably better in every way, and still sells today despite some hiccups (similar problems to KSP in fact). EA would have to work very hard to make something better, and last decade shows that they don't really care about making quality products.

6 hours ago, sunnypunny said:

KSP could definitely be that, as a game that teaches people rocket science - in this case it could be government or some other entity who doesn't want this kind of knowledge in the hands of everyday people, or that entertainment tycoons think a game that successfully blends education with entertainment undermines their strategy of peddling flashy trash without any substance for maximum profit

I don't even know how to respond to this, where's my tinfoil hat?

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

KSP-1 has been cancelled even before KSP-2 appears.

That wouldn't be the case if KSP2 launched on original schedule. In an unfinished state. Also, sorry, "cancelled"? Game is already out, it's still available to buy and download. It's not some kind of abandonware, only the active development stopped.

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

And yes, we now have a proof that developers + publishers chief aim is to make money.

That's my dirty secret: it's mine too.  

But,  you see, there're many ways to make money, most (if not all) falling in one of the major categories below:

• You can solve people's problems, and ask for a compensation;
• You can create problems for people, and then sell them the solutions;
• And some few others, most of them not exactly Forum (or Law) abiding…

So, aiming to make money is not the problem - as a matter of fact, it's the only sustainable solution as time goes by: you only do pro-bono work as long you have a day-job to pay your bills and buy you the free time.

IMHO, our main problem here is trying to define exactly which "major category" from the options I gave above the developers and publishers at hand are aiming to make their money.

 

35 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

It seems that the realists were saying "Don't believe the sweet words."

Exactly. We don't like sweet words, we like facts - even the bitter ones. Give us the fact, and allows us to make better decisions, instead of "cooking us in bain marie"  (nos cozinhando em banho-maria, a local slang meaning talking your way on the guy to soft them and convince them to do what you want on the long run disregarding their own wishes or needs) - what was essentially what KSP1 did to us for 4 or 5 years already.

Reputation matters to infer the future, and reputation is built over past facts. KSP1's past facts doesn't inspire optimism, it's expected from realistic people some unrest about KSP2's future.

There're some expectations to be managed around here.

[kerbiloid]

21 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

That wouldn't be the case if KSP2 launched on original schedule. In an unfinished state.

When somebody was saying that KSP-1 development will stop on KSP-2 release, we were hearing the fairy tales that "No! There will be KSP 1.13, 1.20, ..."

So, what do we actually see?
The KSP-1 development has been taken down even before the KSP-2 release could happen.
Exactly what the "pessimists" we saying, exactly opposite to the developers' claims.

21 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Also, sorry, "cancelled"?

Are you aware that KSP 1.12 is officially the last KSP-1 release?

21 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Game is already out, it's still available to buy and download. It's not some kind of abandonware, only the active development stopped.

Abandonware = "nobody knows/cares whose, as the maintainer dismissed long ago".

The KSP-1 develoment is stopped in favour of the next KSP major version from another developer.
How does it change the fact that KSP-1 is not being developed anymore, when it was claimed to be continued?
Why the next claims, about the KSP-2 release, are more plausible? Can we see any real KSP-2 progress, rather than several static cutscenes?
It would take no time and no effort to publish the obviously existing test videos.

Edited March 29, 2022 by kerbiloid

[Gargamel]

44 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

 

Are you aware that KSP 1.12 is officially the last KSP-1 release?

Before we get into anything, I believe we are arguing two sides of the same coin.   Potato Potato.   Non native English speakers may not get that idiom. 
 

When you cancel something you usually stop production prior to delivery.    In some cases, cancellation can refer to the stoppage of production after initial delivery.   
 

Whatever term you choose to use, we can all agree that major development on KSP has ceased.   
 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Exactly what the "pessimists" we saying

There's pessimism and there's filling every blank in the info we have with wild theories about how the game probably has been cancelled years ago and this is all a convoluted plan to delete an educational game from an evil publisher that wants everybody to buy excrementsty games.

Of the two this whole thead is the kind that brought the moderation team to remind us about forum guideline 2.2h.

Now, where did I put my tinfoil hat? *searches in the desk drawers*  Oh! There it is!

Edited March 29, 2022 by Master39