Mohopeful

[Scarecrow71]

1 minute ago, adsii1970 said:

I understand. Do you know what the original KSP taught me?

• The Colonial Viper from Battlestar Galactica is garbage. It won't work as it does in the show. If you get it to survive reentry, you aren't going back into space in it. And it certainly does not handle that well in space, either!
• The X-Wing Fighter from Star Wars? Um, should never be used in a fight. It cannot fly well in an atmosphere and won't make it into orbit if launched from a planet.
• The U.S.S. Enterprise - Nah, I don't want to spoil it for you.

I do have some rather nifty looking craft in KSP (original), and when KSP2 comes out, I plan on going back to the craft I enjoy making craft that aren't so ugly. But when the game is going to treat me so poorly and I want to do some short evening missions, ugly craft it is!

All of my craft are ugly.  All of them.  I have no choice but to make them functional, which equals ugly.

[adsii1970]

Just now, Superfluous J said:

o be fair if you could manipulate gravity at will they might fly a bit better

Oh, no you didn't - Remember the old forum debates about that? Those debates were worse than the "To MechJeb or Not to MechJeb" threads!

[kdaviper]

44 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

All of my craft are ugly.  All of them.  I have no choice but to make them functional, which equals ugly.

Cover the shame with a fairing! 

[Scarecrow71]

38 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

Cover the shame with a fairing! 

Unfortunately, the fairing is part of the shame!

[Astronomer]

I'm excited for the new Star Citizen update!

But seriously, good work KSP 2 team!

[BowlerHatGuy3]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

All of my craft are ugly.  All of them.  I have no choice but to make them functional, which equals ugly.

Functional doesn’t equal ugly. There’s a reason the Saturn V and ISS are more iconic than any fictional vehicle.

On 5/23/2023 at 5:27 PM, Bej Kerman said:

Or just forgive and forget, because these are real people and continuing to badger them won't bring back your money.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to “forgive and forget”

Sure, ranting and doom talking isn’t gonna necessarily fix anything but I still think we should put pressure on the developers to get 1000 part vehicles at some point around 1.0.

Edited May 25, 2023 by BowlerHatGuy3
Clarity

[Scarecrow71]

6 minutes ago, BowlerHatGuy3 said:

Functional doesn’t equal ugly.

For me, in Kerbal Space Program, it does.

[darthgently]

When you need something to function, and it functions, it is a beautiful thing

Edited May 25, 2023 by darthgently

[Dakitess]

Aesthetic + functionalities + performance is the ultimate goal ! It's quite easy to reach 2 of them, but the whole 3-pack is quite a challenge, and this is why it's a pure joy to try and success when it works ! I'd say that only 4-5 crafts among the 1000's I've made fulfill this goal. And they are all 50+ hours at least in the VAB haha. The last 10% of fine tuning is always 50% of the overall time, of course x)

This is something I look forward to do in KSP2, I don't do "small simple craft" for a long time, but alas, it's not possible nor interesting so far.

[The Aziz]

Efficiency is all that matters

I look at all those overengineered, excessive craft posted by people and.. bruh, why. You could get the same result with half the size. Don't need that 3.75m pod and largest legs to land on Duna, that's doable with 1.25m stack, and that can get you home.

EFFICIENCY.

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

13 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

EFFICIENCY.

BEAUTYYYYY

[Dakitess]

Yeah but... you're not paid to provide something efficient and inexpensive, do you ?

I play KSP not to do an optimized version of Apollo or Viking, but to dream about things that can be done IRL ^^

This unlock the ability to get aesthetic AND efficiency AND features / functions

And sometimes indeed, pure performance, and I find this to be less and less interesting since people are using weird bugs / tricks / dirty alpacas and sometimes limit between legit and bug using gets soft and blurry, it does not really give an incentive to pursue in this way. I rather like to think an overall long (1-5 years) mission to be comfy enough for a given crew, which requires some room and features which are not all about efficiency, even if you can consider them as requirements and then go the efficiency way to design the craft accordingly, of course.

I quite like my DeltaVee (in my signature) for theses considerations : quite tough requirements, especially RolePlay ones, and requiring a LOT of room for the crew to operate for a 1 year duration mission. And I felt the need to keep everything efficient and aesthetic as well. And it's SSTO capable, because, KSP :p Two Stage To Mun, actually, to preserve this efficiency goal, ditching the Rapiers engines.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Dakitess

[LoSBoL]

13 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

Heh, welcome to the fun of an early access game. May I recommend a different playing strategy? Here's what I've been doing in KSP2 - and for the most part, it's not for anything other than giggles, grins, and all-out laughs!

• I do not do any serious sessions where I expect any sort of save game to ever be able to load. So, no long term missions like I do in my 1.3 game.
• I throw crap craft together and come up with the most absurd craft I can think of... To paraphrase a USPS commercial, "click and ship" and wow, have I seen some spectacular explosions! And unexpectedly, a few have gotten into orbit, and a few have made it to the Mün and back!
• I also never dock anything knowing that docking does not work.

And when I feel myself getting angry, I just go do something non-computer for a while. It just isn't worth getting over something that's supposed to be fun.

Thanks for the post, it reminded me I still had some unfinished business in getting an dragon into orbit. 

7 hours ago, darthgently said:

When you need something to function, and it functions, it is a beautiful thing

Which we take for granted far to often. 

[Starhawk]

Some off topic material has been removed.

Please keep the discussion at least in the SOI of the topic.

Thank you for your understanding,
Forum Moderation Team

[darthgently]

4 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

 

12 hours ago, darthgently said:

When you need something to function, and it functions, it is a beautiful thing

Which we take for granted far to often. 

KSP2, I think, has reminded everyone here not to take the beauty of function for granted and that surface visual spendor rests properly, and secondarily, on the shoulders of solid functional beauty. 

A beautiful movie set town built of facades that look great from the correct camera angles can't function as a town.  

I'm hopeful that the KSP2 management team refocuses 100% on game function until the game truly functions.  Even if it means putting all the artists and designers onto other projects and allocating all KSP2 resources toward getting the experience and skills required to turn the "movie set" into a functioning "town". 

[snip]

Edited May 25, 2023 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[bcink]

On 5/19/2023 at 2:27 PM, Grease1991 said:

Really just gotta release the dev stuff so modders can make the game great, KSP1 was understandable considering it was a small handful of people, but for some reason ksp2 devs have been slacking for years at this point. 

probably the most relevant post in all of KSP 2 launch history so far.

[Snark]

More content has been redacted and/or removed.

Folks. Seriously. Please, when we say

2 hours ago, Starhawk said:

Please keep the discussion at least in the SOI of the topic.

... we do in fact mean it. Thank you for your understanding.

[herbal space program]

8 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Efficiency is all that matters

I look at all those overengineered, excessive craft posted by people and.. bruh, why. You could get the same result with half the size. Don't need that 3.75m pod and largest legs to land on Duna, that's doable with 1.25m stack, and that can get you home.

EFFICIENCY.

I dunno, depends what kind of EFFICIENCY we're talking about if you ask me.  Saving Kerbucks is one thing, and bragging rights about "smallest crewed ship to land on and return from XYZ" is another (e.g. https://i.imgur.com/ABj9F3u.png, https://i.imgur.com/i6EmOvR.png), but my precious time is also an important resource. Those overbuilt boosters and landers may not be required for Duna, but if they can do Tylo as well, then I don't have to build a whole new craft to do those two different missions. If my overpowered Mammoth stack makes it so I don't have to repeat my gravity turn 5 times so I can reach LKO with enough dV to do the rest, and I can moreover do my ejection burn in one high-thrust go rather than 4 tedious increments, then I'm saving a lot of time there as well! Obviously it all depends on what it is you're trying to accomplish, which is why in this ultra-buggy KSP2 EA sandbox Kerbalverse, my current Duna lander is is a Mk2 with a Poodle, the second biggest set of  legs, and an excessive number of chutes, and my initial booster is a Rhino with four SRBs attached to it.

Edited May 25, 2023 by herbal space program

[herbal space program]

4 hours ago, darthgently said:

I'm hopeful that the KSP2 management team refocuses 100% on game function until the game truly functions.  Even if it means putting all the artists and designers onto other projects and allocating all KSP2 resources toward getting the experience and skills required to turn the "movie set" into a functioning "town". 

I think there's still plenty of work for both parts of the operation to stay busy for the foreseeable future, but I totally agree that they need to take the fact that the game is currently in a barely playable state seriously, even if they need to hire new people to do that. This next patch should be very telling in that regard IMO, because they cannot be deaf to the current outcry.

[Bej Kerman]

42 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

they need to take the fact that the game is currently in a barely playable state seriously

Which they are

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, herbal space program said:

even if they need to hire new people to do that.

Do you actually think that you can just “hire people” and that will make things better in any time less than 6 months (at a minimum)?

Not only will it not makes things better in the short term, it WILL make things worse because someone needs to train them and they need to actually get experience before being able to do anything remotely productive.

And if there is any turnover, hah, good luck then. 

[Alexoff]

10 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Do you actually think that you can just “hire people” and that will make things better in any time less than 6 months (at a minimum)?

Well, it depends on who you hire. If you hire dismissed Facebook employees, then everything will be so. If you hire Rod Fergusson or someone of that caliber, then all sorts of incredible miracles are possible. But it will be very expensive and it will be very... painful for all developers.

[herbal space program]

46 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Do you actually think that you can just “hire people” and that will make things better in any time less than 6 months (at a minimum)?

Not only will it not makes things better in the short term, it WILL make things worse because someone needs to train them and they need to actually get experience before being able to do anything remotely productive.

And if there is any turnover, hah, good luck then. 

If they don't have the people with the expertise required to get this game engine working in house now, then they'll need to hire new people, no matter how long it takes them to get up to speed on the project. But I'm actually hoping they already did that if they needed to. I don't know why you need to get so supercilious about it. I only bought KSP2 a week ago, and hadn't been on the forum for a couple of years before that, so I'm still processing the new reality. Maybe you could cut me a little slack?

Edited May 25, 2023 by herbal space program

[Razor235]

14 hours ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

BEAUTYYYYY

What do you know of beauty?  Picture it, Mission Control!  One million parts GONE, to save TEN Million!

Flood the aft  booster tanks!

But sir, the weight will destroy the launch pad!

And that will give the rocket the elevation it needs!

SALVATION!

-Last words of Cpt. Mathias Kerman, before spending 698 days trapped in solar orbit with nothing but rocket-vtuber content.

[jost]

[snip]
The success of KSP2 needs more competent team members not less. And even with new hires it would take some time to show any results (since they needed to be trained, getting used to the source code etc). 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Starhawk
Off topic material removed by moderator