KSP 2: The Kraken Still Lives (video by Matt Lowne)

[moeggz]

Please feel free to discuss how similar or dissimilar his mission attempt goes to your attempts.

I will not be summarizing his video as I will be accused of giving it a slant if I do. Watch the video if you would like to discuss.

 

For me, it goes about the same as my mission attempts go. Some bugs I encounter aren’t present but some others he experiences I have never seen like the “map is out of fuel bug.” So I’m curious how similar his experience is to you all because it is overall similar to mine.

[TLTay]

Video: "Suffer with me."

Me: "No."

I'll buy it and play it when it's playable. At this rate, that'll be 2033. More likely it's being kept in the appearance of development for effect on shareholders and will be cancelled when t2 has more big-ticket releases upcoming to feather its cap with. Either the lack of tangible progress on critical bugs bodes  poorly for hopes of timely completion, or they've shadow abandoned it already.

[Alexoff]

Kraken is part of KSP's DNA

[mrjsonkerbal]

As a newer player this video was a huge relief to me. Seeing someone with that level of experience walk slowly through a build and then deal with so many bugs made me at least realize that it is not "just me". I thought seasoned players had all sorts of tricks to avoid bugs, but it seems like it's normal to have so many issues on even the simplest missions. And the issues seem to multiply if you set your sights higher (farther?) Like duna or beyond. Fwiw I'm going to stop playing until I see news on here of major substantial improvements in the next few months. If I were the devs I'd watch this video and annotate every frustration and issue, it's a goldmine.

[Audaylon]

I left the Safety of the KSC.. I watched it and tried for the Mun as I watched..  The first rocket, I built from the bottom up, so all the decoupling resulted in the entire ship falling to pieces.   

The second rocket, I started from the top and that one successfully made it to the Mun.   The lander I crafted had the small pointy radial decouplers and after I had left the Mun surface the ship turned into Spaghetti and uncontrolled wobble into pieces.   

Reloading the quick save just before leaving the Mun Surface, I learned the importance of the correctly setting up the Orbit of the Relay Ship that gets me home.  

Lessons learned, Build from the Top Down.  Do no use the small pointy Radial Decouplers.  Set the Orbit of Relay ship before going to Mun Surface.  I need more practice. 

[cocoscacao]

7 minutes ago, Audaylon said:

The first rocket, I built from the bottom up, so all the decoupling resulted in the entire ship falling to pieces.

That's actually something worth replicating/reporting. I believe that QA team did mention order of placing parts matters and can cause bugs....

[regex]

Early access game known for having bugs gets a video by bitter Youtuber confirming it still has bugs, film at 11.

[Pthigrivi]

Unfortunately I've got a bit of a nasty graphics bug thats been keeping me from playing for a month or so  . I think its mac related and solvable but I just haven't gotten around to it. 

[moeggz]

2 hours ago, regex said:

Early access game known for having bugs gets a video by bitter Youtuber confirming it still has bugs, film at 11.

I wouldn’t even call Matt Lowne bitter, he has a pretty positive overall view of the game compared to me. Which you would know. If you watched the video this topic is about.
 

[Royalswissarmyknife]

2 hours ago, regex said:

Early access game known for having bugs gets a video by bitter Youtuber confirming it still has bugs, film at 11.

Matt at it again

[whatsEJstandfor]

It's definitely cathartic watching someone else run into the same myriad bugs that I get in a simple Apollo-style mission. Not that I didn't think I was alone in them, but it's genuinely nice to just have all of these bugs documented in one single gameplay session. Little things, like not being able to select a target until quickloading, or dV readouts being inaccurate (again until quickloading), etc. Stuff that, in their own rights, would be annoying but not game-breaking but, when all combined, lead to a profoundly frustrating experience.

When KSP2 gets to a point where every bug in this video is fixed, I think that's when I'll be able to stop fighting the game and get to finally just enjoy it.

[Pthigrivi]

9 minutes ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

It's definitely cathartic watching someone else run into the same myriad bugs that I get in a simple Apollo-style mission. Not that I didn't think I was alone in them, but it's genuinely nice to just have all of these bugs documented in one single gameplay session. Little things, like not being able to select a target until quickloading, or dV readouts being inaccurate (again until quickloading), etc. Stuff that, in their own rights, would be annoying but not game-breaking but, when all combined, lead to a profoundly frustrating experience.

When KSP2 gets to a point where every bug in this video is fixed, I think that's when I'll be able to stop fighting the game and get to finally just enjoy it.

Yeah the kind of gameplay I like are really long saves with half a dozen or more really complex missions going at the same time. I love the look, the music, even a lot of the UI changes, but even if I can solve my big graphics issue I won't really be able to do what I enjoy in KSP1. Im definitely looking forward to seeing what KSP2 science brings but even then the game needs to be running a lot smoother than it does now for me to deep dive. 

[moeggz]

[snip]  Has anyone else encountered the “map is out of fuel” bug? That one was a new bug I saw from this video. Also, he has better success than I do with quick loading to make a separated vessel actually count as two vessels, does anyone know anything I can do to make that workaround work more consistently ?

On 7/31/2023 at 9:02 AM, mrjsonkerbal said:

As a newer player this video was a huge relief to me. Seeing someone with that level of experience walk slowly through a build and then deal with so many bugs made me at least realize that it is not "just me". I thought seasoned players had all sorts of tricks to avoid bugs, but it seems like it's normal to have so many issues on even the simplest missions. And the issues seem to multiply if you set your sights higher (farther?) Like duna or beyond. Fwiw I'm going to stop playing until I see news on here of major substantial improvements in the next few months. If I were the devs I'd watch this video and annotate every frustration and issue, it's a goldmine.

Of particular note to me is how often the workarounds don’t work. The “quickload into a vessel spinning out of control for no reason” doesn’t always actually reset it.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[whatsEJstandfor]

29 minutes ago, moeggz said:

Has anyone else encountered the “map is out of fuel” bug? That one was a new bug I saw from this video. Also, he has better success than I do with quick loading to make a separated vessel actually count as two vessels, does anyone know anything I can do to make that workaround work more consistently ?

I don't know if I've seen the same text before but, like Matt, I have had my dV readout disappear, as if the game thinks there's no longer a fuel tank is attached, and then been unable to create maneuver plans, because of said perceived lack of a fuel tank.

[moeggz]

5 minutes ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

I don't know if I've seen the same text before but, like Matt, I have had my dV readout disappear, as if the game thinks there's no longer a fuel tank is attached, and then been unable to create maneuver plans, because of said perceived lack of a fuel tank.

I’ve had that one too but that one (or at least multiple similar bugs) is in the bug reports. I don’t think the “map is out of fuel” bug has been but may be a variant of the same base bug.

[Strawberry]

5 hours ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

It's definitely cathartic watching someone else run into the same myriad bugs that I get in a simple Apollo-style mission. 

I dont know why but docking ports are like bug magnets, the game gets thrice as buggy when you include them in your craft.

[moeggz]

8 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

I dont know why but docking ports are like bug magnets, the game gets thrice as buggy when you include them in your craft.

Which sucks cuz if I had never played KSP before I probably could’ve gotten a lot more playtime before running into so many bugs. There’s a lot of gameplay that doesn’t require docking. 

But my default for the sequel was to assemble a refueling station above Kerbin and boy did the file get worse with each successively docked part to the point of being basically unplayable. 

[Speeding Mullet]

I did an Apollo recreation mission as part of the weekly challenges in May. 500t, 251 parts and with a total height of nearly 56 meters. I even went the whole hog on staging, sepatrons, LES, RCS, fairings and docking ports etc.  to try and push as many issues as possible out of the mission. I wrote at the time that it was a very enjoyable mission and I stand by that.  The main issues I faced though were as follows:

1. Massive gimballing causing wobbly uncontrollable rocket - Turned off gimballing for all but centre engine and rocket stopped wobbling into a total flip.
2. Wobbly rocket - Strutted every stage with eight-symmetry. sometimes twice.  Wobble reduced to the point of being able to fly an efficient trajectory.
3. General lack of control - Underestimated the SAS required to control issues caused by 1 and 2.  Added additional SAS wheel.  Craft still wobbled around its prograde marker.
4. RCS useless and always firing - Turned off pitch, roll yaw on the RCS system, letting SAS deal with these functions.  This made RCS highly effective and would encourage anyone to do the same if they are facing issues.
5. Docking ports cause total mission loss - Reduced explosive force and reduced docking acquisition angle.  Seemed to mitigate docking issues.  Always saved before docking or undocking.  Faced multiple bugs.
6. Orbit lines invisible when lifting off from the surface with a stage separation action - Took off with the bug to get the screenshot, then reloaded and jumped the lower stage off the surface, separated the second stage then continued with mission.

Some of the issues above may have been resolved since I last played and there are clearly more as others are experiencing, but it's helpful information to anyone that wants to try a similar mission which was eminently possible even 2 months ago without the need to suffer. Yes, quick saving and loading very regularly was essential, but I've just always done that out of habit for playing KSP1 for so many years.   

The core of the matter for me is that while I say eminently possible to do the mission and have a good time doing it, for it to be so I had to be an (I'd say very) experienced KSP player, have really good knowledge of the existing bugs and how to mitigate them, and have a modicum of patience.  This isn't a good position to be in when you are trying to attract a new audience including younger players.

The graphic and title is obviously click-bait as Matt Lowne is a better KSP player than me, but it does in its way point to the core of the issue - A lot of less experienced players are suffering, and the only way to stop that is to report bugs if you play, help people who ask for it, and wait for bugs to be resolved.  We all knew that anyway though.

SM

edit - whoa, what happened to the formatting, only noticed it was borked when I switched themes.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Speeding Mullet

[VlonaldKerman]

18 hours ago, regex said:

Early access game known for having bugs gets a video by bitter Youtuber confirming it still has bugs, film at 11.

Long time KSP fan/YouTuber and integral part of KSP community labeled bitter automatically for criticizing buggy game, more at 12.

[jost]

6 minutes ago, VlonaldKerman said:

Long time KSP fan/YouTuber and integral part of KSP community labeled bitter automatically for criticizing buggy game, more at 12.

Well regex is a long time KSP fan too. And "integral Part of community" is quite subjective. Regex years of ranting against KSP1 career mode  are quite an integral part of my community experience

[Alexoff]

19 hours ago, regex said:

Early access game known for having bugs gets a video by bitter Youtuber confirming it still has bugs, film at 11.

Most games in early access will stay in early access forever. But usually they are priced accordingly and are made in the garage by a lone enthusiast.

[PDCWolf]

We're not going in circles anymore, we're going full torus. It's not the game, it's those bitter youtubers!

Matt's gotta be one of the most cheery youtubers, which kinda speaks volumes of how much the current situation sucks for him, specially since (and this goes for every youtuber) KSP1/2 represent his livelihood. And, just like him, one of the first things I tried to do in the game was a Mun mission, and in that single mission alone I encountered most of the common bugs: orbits being unstable, randomness when switching SOIs, my ship disassembling randomly, you crashed screen coming out of nowhere, the terrain on the Mun being as bad as in Kerbin for performance, timewarp issues, and so on. Sure, the game can be early access, but that's no way to release a product, and much less charge $50 for it.

Edit: For those that didn't watch the video, just like in the HarvesteR one, because for some reason commenting without watching is a thing in this forum, here's a "summary", more a play by play:

• Matt builds an Apollo style rocket (looks more like an Ares I with SRBs and liquid core than Saturn, but w/e). It's a very simple rocket, in the sense that it literally doesn't have anything it doesn't need: engine (he says he doesn't use the mammoth as that makes rockets overly wobbly/flippy), fuel tanks, the lander module, a stack separator (as he says KSP2 doesn't work correctly when undocking from docking ports instead of staging), and the command module with a docking port and escape tower, all covered by a fairing.
• Launch goes just fine, his orbit is a bit poor but he does reconfiguration first before circularizing.
• After freeing the command module and turning it around, the game doesn't let him select the LM's docking port as target, as he is still "controlling that ship" apparently. He quicksaves/quickloads and the issue is solved.
• He docks, and proceeds to circularize his orbit at pretty much the last possible moment.
• Matt then creates a maneuver node for the munar injection burn. The D/V readout on the current stage accuses 1240 m/s dV.
• Engine on the transfer stage goes on, the entire ship compresses and then decompresses like a spring.
• He quickly realizes the dV readout is wrong, as his stage runs out of fuel and the stage still reads 1000+ m/s.
• Transfer stage is separated, no more dV readout for the entire ship.
• The game thinks he doesn't have any fuel left, so the maneuver node becomes unresponsive.
• He starts the burn on his command module, timewarps a bit and then off,  as the ship is now spinning, and the game won't let him cut the throttle anymore since he's "on timewarp" (he isn't on timewarp)
• He quickloads his game, the dV readout is fixed, he tries timewarping under burn again, it fails in the exact same way.
• Quickload once again, does the burn without timewarp. The dV readout is gone but he doesn't realize this.
• Timewarps to munar injection.
• He crosses the SOI and prepares a maneuver for circularization. The game won't let him because, and I quote "the map is out of fuel".
• He decides to just eyeball the burn at periapsis, he realizes docking nodes have crossfeed on by default, however the tank on the lander is full.
• Matt transfers the crew to the lander and undocks. The docking port for some reason ejects the lander can really hard, into a slow spin.
• He fails the night landing and quickloads for a day landing.
• At the day side, when he separates the lander, the same ejection into a spin thing happens.
• He warps into low altitude, when coming out of warp the ship starts to spin fast out of nowhere.
• Other than that, the landing goes fine.
• He EVAs to plant the flag, doesn't say anything about it but apparently he can't close the PAW until the flag is planted.
• Quickloading seems to have resetted his flag to the default one.
• He loads kerbals on the ship again and sets spring strenght to max, the legs just shift position without becoming seemingly stronger.
• Matt now goes to map view to warp for a rendezvous window, the mun rotates in view, making it impossible to see anything.
• He decides to do it in the tracking station, he warps and nothing moves.
• Decides to fly the command module for the warp, the thing is spinning for some reason, and shows no dV. Does the warp.
• Then switches to the lander, does the ascent, gets the encounter to 500 meters but said encounter for some reason is shifting.
• After coming back from map mode, the game resets velocity to Orbit and he doesn't realize, so he burns retrograde to his orbit, not his target.
• He reloads, does the same, and realizes at some point the map does change the velocity gauge to orbit by itself even though the ship is suborbital and with a target selected.
• He does a quicksave and checks to see if it was the warping that changed the gauge, it wasn't.
• For the docking, matt does a massively hot approach, almost crashing into the other ship but the magical docking works, only with a lot of added spin after the two vessels unite.
• After the crew and fuel transfer the dV readout still doesn't work, and so he can't make a maneuver node still.
• Ejection burn goes fine.
• Re-entry goes fine (obviously), parachutes deploy at 20 kilometers high, 800 m/s
• He goes into commenting, he doesn't have a contract for KSP2 (somebody asked), he says jokingly to T2 that he'd "happily" do a KSP2 video a week for a million pounds a year.

Edited August 1, 2023 by PDCWolf

[moeggz]

@PDCWolfthanks for the breakdown!

And he does all of that without ranting or hating, but people will have to watch the video to see.

He may not be important to all, but I believe with Scott Manley not making KSP2 videos he has the largest reach of any KSP2 YouTuber and this is the first time in a while he’s done a straight gameplay video with no edits or cuts.

[Royalswissarmyknife]

After doing a similar-ish mission without docking ports I feel like his problems were mostly caused by those.

did get a nasty bug where orbit lines decided to go on vacation and the pe/ap nodes decided to party.

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:37 PM, moeggz said:

Please feel free to discuss how similar or dissimilar his mission attempt goes to your attempts.

I will not be summarizing his video as I will be accused of giving it a slant if I do. Watch the video if you would like to discuss.

 

For me, it goes about the same as my mission attempts go. Some bugs I encounter aren’t present but some others he experiences I have never seen like the “map is out of fuel bug.” So I’m curious how similar his experience is to you all because it is overall similar to mine.

Him saying, "Oh no! It's a disaster!" sums up my experience. 

Also - the myriad 'little frustrations' of  KSP2 seem to still be in the game. 

SMH