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KSP2 Tech tree and For Science! VAB (and analysis)

Strawberry

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Scarecrow71

Scarecrow71

Posted
Posted
Just now, WelshSteW said:

It is a bit odd that they've called it 'Mun Landing' rather than just 'Landing Gear' or something. No reason at all to tie it into landing on the Mun, from what we've seen.

It's probably just an easy way to describe what parts are there early in the game.  Not the best wording, I agree.  But I wouldn't get too hung up on what words they used or why.  The important thing is that it's finally coming!

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PicoSpace

PicoSpace

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Periple said:

It must be a real pain to invent names for all those nodes! :joy:

Can’t be that hard, they have KSP1 and CRT as examples…

”landing pod”

”decent parts”

”lander tech”

etc

Edited by PicoSpace
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Vl3d

Vl3d

Posted
Posted (edited)
Tech Trees Comparison (ordered by Science Points cost)
KSP 1 KSP 2
  1. Start (0 Science Points)
  2. Basic Rocketry (5)
  3. Engineering 101 (5)
  4. Survivability (15)
  5. Stability (18)
  6. General Rocketry (20)
  7. Aviation (45)
  8. Basic Science (45)
  9. Flight Control (45)
  10. Advanced Rocketry (45)
  11. General Construction (45)
  12. Propulsion Systems (90)
  13. Space Exploration (90)
  14. Advanced Flight Control (90)
  15. Landing (90)
  16. Aerodynamics (90)
  17. Electrics (90)
  18. Heavy Rocketry (90)
  19. Fuel Systems (90)
  20. Advanced Construction (90)
  21. Miniaturization (90)
  22. Actuators (160)
  23. Command Modules (160)
  24. Heavier Rocketry (160)
  25. Precision Engineering (160)
  26. Advanced Exploration (160)
  27. Specialized Control (160)
  28. Advanced Landing (160)
  29. Supersonic Flight (160)
  30. Adv. Fuel Systems (160)
  31. Advanced Electrics (160)
  32. Specialized Construction (160)
  33. Precision Propulsion (160)
  34. Advanced Aerodynamics (160)
  35. Heavy Landing (300)
  36. Scanning Tech (300)
  37. Unmanned Tech (300)
  38. Nuclear Propulsion (300)
  39. Advanced Metal Works (300)
  40. Field Science (300)
  41. High Altitude Flight (300)
  42. Large Volume Containment (300)
  43. Composites (300)
  44. Electronics (300)
  45. High-Power Electrics (300)
  46. Heavy Aerodynamics (300)
  47. Ion Propulsion (550)
  48. Hypersonic Flight (550)
  49. Nanolathing (550)
  50. Advanced Unmanned Tech (550)
  51. Meta-Materials (550)
  52. Very Heavy Rocketry (550)
  53. Advanced Science Tech (550)
  54. Advanced Motors (550)
  55. Specialized Electrics (550)
  56. High-Performance Fuel Systems (550)
  57. Experimental Aerodynamics (550)
  58. Automation (550)
  59. Aerospace Tech (1000)
  60. Large Probes (1000)
  61. Experimental Science (1000)
  62. Experimental Motors (1000)
  63. Experimental Electrics (1000)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  1. Starting Rocketry (0 Science Points)
  2. Environmental Science (10)
  3. Electronics 1 / Probes (10)
  4. Construction 1 (10)
  5. Aerodynamics & Stability 1 (10)
  6. Light Launchers (10)
  7. Solid Fuel Boosters (15)
  8. Lights & Utilities (15)
  9. Specialized Decoupling (15)
  10. Survivability (15)
  11. Orbital Rocketry (25)
  12. Basic Trusses (25)
  13. Struts (35)
  14. Power Management (35)
  15. Small Payload (35)
  16. Micro-Construction (35)
  17. Reaction Control System (50)
  18. Aviation 1 (50)
  19. Long Range Probes / Command & Control 2 (50)
  20. Research Miniaturization (50)
  21. Basic Docking (50)
  22. Mun Landing (80)
  23. Monopropellant Drive (80)
  24. Tiny Engines (120)
  25. Power Launchers (180)
  26. Medium Orbital Rockets (230)
  27. Enhanced Electronics (230)
  28. Expanded Construction (230)
  29. Precision Aerodynamics (230)
  30. Fuel Lines (300)
  31. Durable Power Systems (300)
  32. Atmospheric Science (300)
  33. Precision Machining (300)
  34. Enhanced Coupling (300)
  35. Mk2 Jets (300)
  36. Medium Launchers (400)
  37. Precision Propulsion (400)
  38. Autonomous Sampling (500)
  39. Heavy Landing (500)
  40. Medium Trusses (500)
  41. Aviation Utility (500)
  42. Nuclear Propulsion / NERV (650)
  43. Medium Truss Adapters (650)
  44. Xenon Propulsion (850)
  45. Modular Launchers (1100)
  46. Heavy Rocketry (1400)
  47. Deep Space Probes (1400)
  48. Heavy Construction (1400)
  49. Large Aerodynamics (1400)
  50. Heavy Launchers (1800)
  51. Oversized Monopropellant Fuel (1800)
  52. Enlarged Power Systems (1800)
  53. Radiation Science (1800)
  54. Heavy Trusses (1800)
  55. Large Coupling (1800)
  56. Jumbo Jets (1800)
  57. Heavy Orbital Operations (2300)
  58. Long Range Generation (2300)
  59. Large Payloads (2300)
  60. Specialized Docking (2300)
  61. Airliners (2300)
  62. Deep Space Methalox (2900)
  63. Nuclear Power (2900)
  64. Orbital Science (2900)
  65. Heavy Nuclear Propulsion (4500)
  66. XL Methalox Tanks (5000)
  67. XL Electronics (5000)
  68. Oversized Landing (5000)
  69. XL Construction (5000)
  70. Spaceplanes (5000)
  71. XL Hydrogen Tanks (6000)
  72. Aquatic Sciences (6000)
  73. XL Trusses (6000)
  74. XL Coupling (6000)
  75. Space Shuttles (6000)
  76. Mk3 Fuel Systems (6000)
  77. Orbital Report (7000)
  78. Space Trucking' (7000)
  79. XL Truss Adapters (7000)
  80. XL Docking (7000)
  81. XL Payloads (8000)

 

 

Edited by Vl3d
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AlexTheNotSoGreat

AlexTheNotSoGreat

Posted
Posted
On 10/30/2023 at 12:26 PM, Vl3d said:
Tech Trees Comparison (ordered by Science Points cost)
KSP 1 KSP 2
  1. Start (0 Science Points)
  2. Basic Rocketry (5)
  3. Engineering 101 (5)
  4. Survivability (15)
  5. Stability (18)
  6. General Rocketry (20)
  7. Aviation (45)
  8. Basic Science (45)
  9. Flight Control (45)
  10. Advanced Rocketry (45)
  11. General Construction (45)
  12. Propulsion Systems (90)
  13. Space Exploration (90)
  14. Advanced Flight Control (90)
  15. Landing (90)
  16. Aerodynamics (90)
  17. Electrics (90)
  18. Heavy Rocketry (90)
  19. Fuel Systems (90)
  20. Advanced Construction (90)
  21. Miniaturization (90)
  22. Actuators (160)
  23. Command Modules (160)
  24. Heavier Rocketry (160)
  25. Precision Engineering (160)
  26. Advanced Exploration (160)
  27. Specialized Control (160)
  28. Advanced Landing (160)
  29. Supersonic Flight (160)
  30. Adv. Fuel Systems (160)
  31. Advanced Electrics (160)
  32. Specialized Construction (160)
  33. Precision Propulsion (160)
  34. Advanced Aerodynamics (160)
  35. Heavy Landing (300)
  36. Scanning Tech (300)
  37. Unmanned Tech (300)
  38. Nuclear Propulsion (300)
  39. Advanced Metal Works (300)
  40. Field Science (300)
  41. High Altitude Flight (300)
  42. Large Volume Containment (300)
  43. Composites (300)
  44. Electronics (300)
  45. High-Power Electrics (300)
  46. Heavy Aerodynamics (300)
  47. Ion Propulsion (550)
  48. Hypersonic Flight (550)
  49. Nanolathing (550)
  50. Advanced Unmanned Tech (550)
  51. Meta-Materials (550)
  52. Very Heavy Rocketry (550)
  53. Advanced Science Tech (550)
  54. Advanced Motors (550)
  55. Specialized Electrics (550)
  56. High-Performance Fuel Systems (550)
  57. Experimental Aerodynamics (550)
  58. Automation (550)
  59. Aerospace Tech (1000)
  60. Large Probes (1000)
  61. Experimental Science (1000)
  62. Experimental Motors (1000)
  63. Experimental Electrics (1000)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  1. Starting Rocketry (0 Science Points)
  2. Environmental Science (10)
  3. Electronics 1 / Probes (10)
  4. Construction 1 (10)
  5. Aerodynamics & Stability 1 (10)
  6. Light Launchers (10)
  7. Solid Fuel Boosters (15)
  8. Lights & Utilities (15)
  9. Specialized Decoupling (15)
  10. Survivability (15)
  11. Orbital Rocketry (25)
  12. Basic Trusses (25)
  13. Struts (35)
  14. Power Management (35)
  15. Small Payload (35)
  16. Micro-Construction (35)
  17. Reaction Control System (50)
  18. Aviation 1 (50)
  19. Long Range Probes / Command & Control 2 (50)
  20. Research Miniaturization (50)
  21. Basic Docking (50)
  22. Mun Landing (80)
  23. Monopropellant Drive (80)
  24. Tiny Engines (120)
  25. Power Launchers (180)
  26. Medium Orbital Rockets (230)
  27. Enhanced Electronics (230)
  28. Expanded Construction (230)
  29. Precision Aerodynamics (230)
  30. Fuel Lines (300)
  31. Durable Power Systems (300)
  32. Atmospheric Science (300)
  33. Precision Machining (300)
  34. Enhanced Coupling (300)
  35. Mk2 Jets (300)
  36. Medium Launchers (400)
  37. Precision Propulsion (400)
  38. Autonomous Sampling (500)
  39. Heavy Landing (500)
  40. Medium Trusses (500)
  41. Aviation Utility (500)
  42. Nuclear Propulsion / NERV (650)
  43. Medium Truss Adapters (650)
  44. Xenon Propulsion (850)
  45. Modular Launchers (1100)
  46. Heavy Rocketry (1400)
  47. Deep Space Probes (1400)
  48. Heavy Construction (1400)
  49. Large Aerodynamics (1400)
  50. Heavy Launchers (1800)
  51. Oversized Monopropellant Fuel (1800)
  52. Enlarged Power Systems (1800)
  53. Radiation Science (1800)
  54. Heavy Trusses (1800)
  55. Large Coupling (1800)
  56. Jumbo Jets (1800)
  57. Heavy Orbital Operations (2300)
  58. Long Range Generation (2300)
  59. Large Payloads (2300)
  60. Specialized Docking (2300)
  61. Airliners (2300)
  62. Deep Space Methalox (2900)
  63. Nuclear Power (2900)
  64. Orbital Science (2900)
  65. Heavy Nuclear Propulsion (4500)
  66. XL Methalox Tanks (5000)
  67. XL Electronics (5000)
  68. Oversized Landing (5000)
  69. XL Construction (5000)
  70. Spaceplanes (5000)
  71. XL Hydrogen Tanks (6000)
  72. Aquatic Sciences (6000)
  73. XL Trusses (6000)
  74. XL Coupling (6000)
  75. Space Shuttles (6000)
  76. Mk3 Fuel Systems (6000)
  77. Orbital Report (7000)
  78. Space Trucking' (7000)
  79. XL Truss Adapters (7000)
  80. XL Docking (7000)
  81. XL Payloads (8000)

 

 

Holy cow, I hadn't even noticed how expensive the later nodes get. Sounds like that'll help incentivize more interplanetary missions.

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cocoscacao

cocoscacao

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/30/2023 at 6:26 PM, Vl3d said:

Aquatic Sciences (6000)

Ain't this a little too much for a boat? We've traveled across the solar system, but not the ocean :D. I'm wondering if aquatic also means underwater...

Edited by cocoscacao
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LunarMetis

LunarMetis

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Ain't this a little too much for a boat? We've traveled across the solar system, but not the ocean :D. I'm wondering if aquatic also means underwater...

To me, it kinda makes sense why aquatic sciences would be high up in the tech tree. We know much more about the surface of Mars than the bottoms of Earth's oceans in real life. Maybe at some point in building their advanced interplanetary space program, the Kerbals just realized "hey, what the hell could be lying underneath Kerbin's oceans? Or Eve's? Or especially Laythe's?" and decided to start research on it fairly late.

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Strawberry

Strawberry

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

Ain't this a little too much for a boat? We've traveled across the solar system, but not the ocean :D. I'm wondering if aquatic also means underwater...

Well as far as we know, the science nodes are just for the science parts. Theres nothing that suggests this will contain boat parts.

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Vl3d

Vl3d

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

I had a thought today about the "Mun Landing" node. What if that's a node you have to unlock by completing some form of mission/contract, and the mission/contract the player accepted was called "Mun Landing"?

So you land on the Mun to unlock the parts needed to land on the Mun?

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Superfluous J

Superfluous J

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

So you land on the Mun to unlock the parts needed to land on the Mun?

I didn't know there was a list of parts in the node. All I've seen is the name of the node, in an area where I'd expect an engine not landing equipment.

What parts are in that node?

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stephensmat

stephensmat

Posted
Posted

The tech tree was always the way of controlling the progression of the 'Space Program'.  YouTubers and experts took delight in finding ways to Duna or the Mun with the lowest end parts possible.

Could be the Tree this time is unlocking the locations, more than the parts.  Unlock 'Mun Landing' to get missions for exploration, or the ability to test Mun dust for things. Unlock 'Duna Landing' to run those experiments for Duna.

Sounds contrived, but it could work in concert with the Colonies Expansion. You need a checklist of completed tasks to build a colony somewhere in particular, you need a certain number of flight hours before you could unlock orbital construction, etc..

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Pthigrivi

Pthigrivi

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, stephensmat said:

Could be the Tree this time is unlocking the locations, more than the parts.  Unlock 'Mun Landing' to get missions for exploration, or the ability to test Mun dust for things. Unlock 'Duna Landing' to run those experiments for Duna.

I hope it's not gated that way. One of the big problems with KSP1's progression was the way the exploration contracts were handled, and the fact that the whole system seemed to break if you just went on a head and explored somewhere that wasn't wasn't on the list. The missions should just be suggestions rather than a checklist, and if you happen to deviate or just decide for some reason you want to send a probe to Eve those rewards should still trigger even if the mission hasn't shown up for you yet. 
 

19 hours ago, AlexTheNotSoGreat said:

Holy cow, I hadn't even noticed how expensive the later nodes get. Sounds like that'll help incentivize more interplanetary missions.

Yeah this may be part of the way they're encouraging players to jump out to explore other planets, that its just not feasible to unlock a whole lot of the tech tree fully within KSOI. I think this will come down a bit to how many biomes there are and how widely applicable science experiments are. Based on the way experiments are doled out Im still a bit worried about incentivizing going back and doing a lot of repeat missions, but maybe they're structured in a way that even if you're going back to Minmus for a 6th or 10th mission you're collecting science in a different way with different design requirements.

Edited by Pthigrivi
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VlonaldKerman

VlonaldKerman

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, stephensmat said:

Could be the Tree this time is unlocking the locations, more than the parts.  Unlock 'Mun Landing' to get missions for exploration, or the ability to test Mun dust for things. Unlock 'Duna Landing' to run those experiments for Duna.

That would be extremely horrible.

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Bej Kerman

Bej Kerman

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, stephensmat said:

You need a checklist of completed tasks to build a colony somewhere in particular, you need a certain number of flight hours before you could unlock orbital construction, etc..

Oh, are the police going to show up if we dare park on a planet we haven't landed on an arbitrary number of times before?

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Scarecrow71

Scarecrow71

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, stephensmat said:

Could be the Tree this time is unlocking the locations, more than the parts.  Unlock 'Mun Landing' to get missions for exploration, or the ability to test Mun dust for things. Unlock 'Duna Landing' to run those experiments for Duna.

This would make Science worse than what it is in KSP1, which I didn't think was possible.

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magnemoe

magnemoe

Posted
Posted
On 11/6/2023 at 10:11 AM, Superfluous J said:

I had a thought today about the "Mun Landing" node. What if that's a node you have to unlock by completing some form of mission/contract, and the mission/contract the player accepted was called "Mun Landing"?

Mine thought to but its just an name of a node. Mun landing was an requirement for an later node who confused me. 

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dansiegel30

dansiegel30

Posted
Posted

Well, a lot of the speculation of the details of the tech tree is a waste of time IMO.  The tech tree is designed for the parts they have at 0.2 launch.  Notice there does not seem to be any place holders for colonies, resource harvesting, orbital construction, and interstellar tech/parts.  So, the tech tree will certainly change, IMO, quite drastically in 0.3 and 0.4.   

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magnemoe

magnemoe

Posted
Posted
On 11/9/2023 at 12:42 AM, dansiegel30 said:

Well, a lot of the speculation of the details of the tech tree is a waste of time IMO.  The tech tree is designed for the parts they have at 0.2 launch.  Notice there does not seem to be any place holders for colonies, resource harvesting, orbital construction, and interstellar tech/parts.  So, the tech tree will certainly change, IMO, quite drastically in 0.3 and 0.4.   

Agree, it will be some balancing but I assume we have to do lots of science before unlocking the huge interplanetary ship. 

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Vl3d

Vl3d

Posted
Posted
On 11/9/2023 at 1:42 AM, dansiegel30 said:

Notice there does not seem to be any place holders for colonies, resource harvesting, orbital construction, and interstellar tech/parts.  So, the tech tree will certainly change, IMO, quite drastically in 0.3 and 0.4.   

Changed and expanded are two different concepts. I see no reason why the starting tech tree structure up to inflatable colony modules should change that much. It can be expanded with all the parts that come later in the progression.

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