SQUAD

A "KSP Loading..." Preview: The Mun Launch Site (KSP Enhanced Edition)

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Posted (edited)

I'm with @Snark if it's included at some point, it should be configurable independent of the other Kerbin launch sites and if it's off there should be no trace of it in the game. But it should be up to the player to decide if it's there or not no matter what game mode. What another player decides to do in their game has no impact at all with how I want to play the game. But, I'm all for more options.

If Squad is going to allow a Mun site, why not provide launchsites on other celestial bodies. I want the ability to build ships and vehicles that never have to deal with a launch through atmosphere. My last career game was geared towards building up that infrastructure on Minmus only to be let down that the mod I'd chosen ended up being a complete failure for what I wanted to build, months of effort hit a brickwall that ended that career. So, I look forward to a Squad supplied offworld launchpad instead of a mod. In career I like the idea of needing to unlock the site by completing several prerequisites instead of it just being there from the start.

As for using it as a "Test Site", that a very limited case. It's just as simple to get the same functionality using sandbox and Hyperedit. At least that's what I've done for testing Duna and Eve landers.

Edited by Tonka Crash

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33 minutes ago, T1mo98 said:

How about this as a simple solution:

Career and Science Modes:
The Mun launchsite is not present at all and cannot be turned on, even if other launchsites are enabled.
This would preserve the immersion of the game in these modes since it matters more.

Sandbox Mode: 
The Mun launchsite is enabled alongside the other launchsites.
This would benefit designers and people who just like to build stuff and test it without having to get everything where it needs to be all the time to test, for example, if a Mun lander works.

I barely ever play career mode. I make up my own 'career' in sandbox, and I'm in the 'strongly disagree' camp for this feature. So I think we just need what @Snark said previously: an option separate from the Kerbin launchsite option called something like 'Enable offworld launchsites'.

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20 hours ago, TimothyC said:

What's a "Lauch site"?

Probably a vegetable location :wink: (Afaik at least in german)

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4 hours ago, Deddly said:

Do we at this stage have the slightest clue how it will be implemented, @klesh?

Who cares? Its for the console port.

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If you look closely at the video they presented.  This Munar Launch Site already has simulated "landed craft" that some people are postulating would be cool as a requirement to unlock this site.   You can tell from the landing legs that they are not real, landed, ships.  They have the model for the Cub engine on them, but everything else about them is unique.

That is to say they are static representations of the fun unlocking ideas you're all coming up with; flavor visuals to tell the backstory of all the actual fun it would've been to build a Mun launch site without having to actually do it., and without Squad having to program all the necessary code to make it possible.

 

z8yBHXf.png

 

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Console-specific exclusive features?  Really?  I've boycotted games for less (well, at least refused to by it personally; not really externally vocal about it).

I really don't care about the launch-site one way or the other.  But this sets a... scary?... depressing?...worrisome?  precedent.  Platform specific 'exclusives' only punish people on other platforms, and are not a good decision.  Ever.  All versions for all platforms should be equivalent and equal at all times (control scheme differences aside).  If that cannot be accomplished -- perhaps just don't release to those extra platforms in the first place?  If you don't have the resources to do it, then you don't have the resources to do it, and it should not be done at all.

(and yes, by inference, I am stating that if the console versions were released, they should have been able to use mods as a mandatory requirement for their development from the start; no mods = no console versions)

I'll be keeping an eye on this; hoping it isn't just the first of many bad decisions that players will have to deal with, and that it gets straightened out shortly.  If not... well... I'll be taking my toys elsewhere and adding SQUAD to the list of developers to stay far, far, away from.  Bad decisions should not be rewarded; unfortunately, far too late for me to get a refund.

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To be fair, they do say "Not currently available on PC" and not "Enhanced Edition exclusive".

 

I imagine this means that this console update drops before 1.7 does.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

I've boycotted games for less

How do you boycott something you already paid money on (which you only need to buy once)

Also, It really isn't like PC version is missing out on anything important.
cough EL, hyperdedit, Kerbal Contructs

Edited by GrandProtectorDark

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23 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

My last career game was geared towards building up that infrastructure on Minmus only to be let down that the mod I'd chosen ended up being a complete failure for what I wanted to build, months of effort hit a brickwall that ended that career.

This has happened so many times to me that I don't bother doing more than automated refueling depots anymore. That's the reason I would want an extraplanetary launch site. So when the mods author do change something, the parts can easily be replaced. 

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I don’t see what all the fuss is about. You can just as easily turn on infinite fuel and get a rocket to orbit just as easily as launching from the Mun. 

Yah, it is cheaty for a career mode and should be balanced or eliminated as required. No arguement there.

For sandbox mode though, it isn’t a concern, at all. It is called “sandbox” mode for a reason. 

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23 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Console-specific exclusive features?  Really?  I've boycotted games for less (well, at least refused to by it personally; not really externally vocal about it).

I really don't care about the launch-site one way or the other.  But this sets a... scary?... depressing?...worrisome?  precedent.  Platform specific 'exclusives' only punish people on other platforms, and are not a good decision.  Ever.  All versions for all platforms should be equivalent and equal at all times (control scheme differences aside).  If that cannot be accomplished -- perhaps just don't release to those extra platforms in the first place?  If you don't have the resources to do it, then you don't have the resources to do it, and it should not be done at all.

(and yes, by inference, I am stating that if the console versions were released, they should have been able to use mods as a mandatory requirement for their development from the start; no mods = no console versions)

I'll be keeping an eye on this; hoping it isn't just the first of many bad decisions that players will have to deal with, and that it gets straightened out shortly.  If not... well... I'll be taking my toys elsewhere and adding SQUAD to the list of developers to stay far, far, away from.  Bad decisions should not be rewarded; unfortunately, far too late for me to get a refund.

Dude, they said "Not currently available on PC". Keyword being currently.

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1 hour ago, Poodmund said:

Who cares? Its for the console port.

Are we two different communities? 

Are console players less valuable than pc/mac/linux players? 

Do we know it will always remain a console-only feature? 

Before anyone answers these rhetorical questions, the answer to all of them is obviously "no!" 

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I'm completely opposed to such a silly idea.

 

I mean, it just totally breaks the immersion of this game about moronic little green creatures that launch advanced spacecraft made by junkyards from a rusted out trailer park before they've managed to invent the wheel and ladders, even though they already have wheels and ladders.

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Hey all.

 

First glance. Cool.

Second glance. Not cool.

 

If it's available too early then players won't learn to build a base on the Mun in the first place.

If it's available before the full tech tree as been done then you get the base do "Science" on the Mun and bingo a full tree.

Maybe it should come as a tech item when the tree is full and an a steep cost in Roots?

 

Once the tech-Tree is full the game at that point becomes a sandbox anyway. Or am I playing this "Wrong" and differently than anybody else?

 

 

ME

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Starhawk said:

The sense of adventure, awe, and wonder at being the first to travel to a dangerous and alien place using brand new, barely tested technology is a very large part of the experience for many, I believe.  I can understand how just having that stuff sitting there on the Mun could actually interfere with the enjoyment experienced while playing.

Well said.  I feel like, as a society, we're losing the value of accomplishment.  Whether it be bypassing traveling to Mun, auto-combos in fighting games, auto-aim in shooters, or participation awards in elementary sports.  Challenge helps us grow as people.   Even if it is just in a programmed world.

Edited by klgraham1013

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6 minutes ago, razark said:

I'm completely opposed to such a silly idea.

 

I mean, it just totally breaks the immersion of this game about moronic little green creatures that launch advanced spacecraft made by junkyards from a rusted out trailer park before they've managed to invent the wheel and ladders, even though they already have wheels and ladders.

Well, yes, but it's supposed to be going the other direction! :D

Personally, I think a Mun launch site is a dumb idea. But, if it does get ported to the PC version I'll just do the same thing I do with all of the other features I don't like: ignore it.

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43 minutes ago, GrandProtectorDark said:

Also, It really isn't like PC version is missing out on anything important.

Its the principal of the decisions that are being made.  I believe that all versions should be equal, regardless of platform.  I care not about what the feature is, how 'important' it may be, or even if I will ever use it.  If they choose to support a given platform, they should support it to the same extent as every other.

23 minutes ago, T1mo98 said:

Dude, they said "Not currently available on PC". Keyword being currently.

Indeed -- and I included accommodations for that potentiality in my post.  As I said, I'll be keeping an eye on it to see if they sort it out.  I won't be taking any immediate action, and probably won't be taking any action at all unless I see the problem get worse (e.g. the 'setting a bad precedent' bit of my post).

 

50 minutes ago, GrandProtectorDark said:

How do you boycott something you already paid money on (which you only need to buy once)

Hence my problem and the entire reason for my post -- I've already paid for it.  How to 'punish' a developer who already has your money for their decisions you don't agree with?  I can't 'vote with my wallet', so I have to resort to the forums that are available for such matters... which happen to be these forums.   (not that I actually desire to punish anyone, I'm merely here to express my grievances in a hopefully civil manner)

 

I'm not attributing their decisions to malice or any 'anti-PC' sentiment, they are running a business after all, I'm merely stating that I do not agree with their business decisions.  If I have any hope of them correcting things to line up with my opinions, well, first those opinions need to be stated.  At the end of the day though, it is their business; they can choose to run it however they desire.  I'm only a single player and have no belief that my opinions carry more weight than anyone else's; but perhaps if there were enough people of similar mind willing to state their thoughts it might motivate some actions from the developer, if they were so inclined.

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1 minute ago, Shadowmage said:

Its the principal of the decisions that are being made.  I believe that all versions should be equal, regardless of platform.

 

Parity went out the door when they started selling the game on Steam.

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I'm just going to quote my posts from the last time the mun site argument came up. Honestly it's galling to still see so many of you complaining about something cool being added to the game.

On 2/22/2019 at 3:27 AM, Loskene said:

This mun launch business reeks of the age old mantra of "I had to do it the hard way so you should too"

Get off your high horses and stop keeping the gates locked guys, you can't cheat in a single player game, you can only define the rules of your particular play style for yourself. The only qualifier for quality there is whether or not you as the player are enjoying yourself. If a feature is added that would make you personally enjoy the game less, then guess what, you can just turn it off or not turn it on to begin with. That's how it's been with everything else so far and we've been given no indication that's going to change any time soon.

Try not to forget this is a sandbox game, and the best sandboxes are the ones that give you the most tools to reshape the sand as you see fit. This is not a hardcore challenge game where you need to be an actual rocket scientist to build and fly a rocket. You merely have the option to make it that way if it sounds more fun to you.

I would love launch sites on other planets, just for the increased fun potential, and without having to rely on mods like EL that can be bloated, janky, require huge dependency trees or have hardcoded mechanics that make them less enjoyable. I'd like to picture end-of-life KSP having as many of the most popular mods available in the stock game as Squad finds reasonable to work on, properly integrated, stripped down to their barest most enjoyable functions, and guaranteed stable with every update, be they optional extras or DLC or whatever. This game built its success on the ease and depth to which it can be modified, and that feature alone has given it a lease of life way beyond its years. Let's not neglect that because some completely optional things would be considered too """easy""" for some of us who've put more hours into this than we can count. I'm personally looking forward to seeing how a vacuum-based launch site can be used to make the game harder for me, but that would require more than a jerk of the knee to think of, wouldn't it?

On 2/26/2019 at 12:56 AM, Loskene said:

Being given the option to do things the hard way can be a fun part of the game. It is only one way to play it though and it goes against the spirit of a sandbox to only have one acceptable playstyle. What is this, elite dangerous?

I enjoy a challenge just as much as anyone else, and usually set out with things on the hardest difficulty or thereabouts when I play something new, but I always like having the fallback option of taking it easy if I just want to experience everything the game has to offer without having potentially insurmountable obstacles thrown in the way of them. That isn't fun, it just makes people quit. Sometimes you want to be tested, sometimes you just want the showcase tour of the game's roster of features. I think it's better to have the options for both.

 

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There are too many options already.

I think we need an option to enable or disable extra options.

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3 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

There are too many options already.

I think we need an option to enable or disable extra options.

We do...

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Posted (edited)

I would assume that since the console version was screwed up for long, Squad throwing them a bone on new content (which will almost certainly end up on the PC (1.7?)) is a way to let them feel they're ahead of the curve for once. It's like rockets looking like crud for so long after aircraft got all the love.

Edited by tater

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2 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

Well said.  I feel like, as a society, we're losing the value of accomplishment.  Whether it be bypassing traveling to Mun, auto-combos in fighting games, auto-aim in shooters, or participation awards in elementary sports.  Challenge helps us grow as people.   Even if it is just in a programmed world.

Why do we have a Cheat menu than?

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