[1.8.1] ETT - Engineering Tech Tree - May 4, 2020

[Probus]

Just now, FreeThinker said:

I'm using latest version: For Advanced Electro Magnetic Systems, it requires Experimental Gridded Thrusters and Specialized Plasma Generation, but neither is visible, making it impossible to research these techs:

 

A few observations about KSPI-CTT tech, I see you mixed the order of both tech node and their parts This leased to some weird order, like the  cycle Gas being available before  the Close Cycle  Gas Core Reactor. This should be the other way around. I would also advice to make optional dependencies  between the Nuclear Propulsion Technologies (Fusion Rockets, High Efficient NUclear Propulsion , Nuclear Propulsion) and Advanced  Fusion should require Fusion Rockets and Fusion Power (not the other way around).

Thanks @FreeThinker.  I caught the visibility issue yesterday.  But dang, those reactors can be confusin' (I love it!!) especially with the upgrades.  Thanks for pointing this out. We're getting there.

 

For all you ETT fans out there.  THANK YOU for all of your support.  This mod started with Interstellar, Firespitter & FASA.  Wow, how its grown. I'm luvin' it.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Probus

[FreeThinker]

On 15-2-2016 at 4:37 AM, Probus said:

Thanks @FreeThinker.  I caught the visibility issue yesterday.  But dang, those reactors can be confusin' (I love it!!) especially with the upgrades.  Thanks for pointing this out. We're getting there.

 

For all you ETT fans out there.  THANK YOU for all of your support.  This mod started with Interstellar, Firespitter & FASA.  Wow, how its grown. I'm luvin' it.

Please try to keep Parts as much as possible in their designated tech as possible as I put a lot of though in it  to make it balanced and they change over time

[SolidJuho]

Can't download from CKAN.

[Probus]

Just now, SolidJuho said:

Can't download from CKAN.

Thanks for the update.  Should  be working soon.

[Deimos Rast]

So I just downloaded this and started playing with it (an hour in a new game at most) and I have maybe 30 science points invested in the tree. I have to say, coming from CTT, this tree feels fresh, and after a cursory examination, seems very well laid out, on a macro level (although there are two free floating nodes on the bottom that you can unlock from the start, they are Cryogenic Freezing from Deep Freeze and USI Nuclear Recycling or something, which seems a bit advanced when I can't even field a probe yet). Aside from that though, well done, seriously.

(Oh, as a general aside, I should add that I have well over a hundred mods installed, so there are bound to be some holes in the tech tree, understandable, just wanted to point out some trends).

Some issues, however, on the micro level, within the nodes themselves. With those 30 points I grabbed, I don't remember exactly, maybe General Construction, Landing, Rocket Stuff Something Something, Electrics, Stability, Survivability, etc. Whatever, all the the cheap as chips stuff. I had 5 points left over after taking biplane.

The good: capsules, probes, tech, and rocket engines (for the most parts), stock and modded seemed spot on. My first test flight was actually a hot air-balloon, in a ballistic capsule with a hatch that didn't open! Felt very early-space race to me, very authentic; Jeb approved.

The not as good: heat shields; decouplers, airplane engines. I never took airplane tech, aside from biplane (a 3 point tech node), yet I had at least a dozen propeller engines, including the monster $5000 three bladed stacked 'Bear' propeller engine, which is normally a later tech engine, unlocked at the same time as the $100 tiny propeller engine. I forget which mod these are from, but they're not from Firespitter, I know that. Heatshields: I had half a dozen modded heat shields, didn't unlock any stock ones yet. Decouplers: I had a couple of 2.5m modded decouplers, nothing stock unlocked.

Anyway, just my first impression. Overall, I'm impressed with the layout and looking forward to this play through. And no, I don't expect you to account for every mod in existence, obviously, I only mentioned the above since it jumped out at me. Just wanted to make sure a category/module flag didn't get missed or something.

Cheers.

[Probus]

Just now, Deimos Rast said:

(Oh, as a general aside, I should add that I have well over a hundred mods installed, so there are bound to be some holes in the tech tree, understandable, just wanted to point out some trends).

The not as good: heat shields; decouplers, airplane engines. I never took airplane tech, aside from biplane (a 3 point tech node), yet I had at least a dozen propeller engines, including the monster $5000 three bladed stacked 'Bear' propeller engine, which is normally a later tech engine, unlocked at the same time as the $100 tiny propeller engine. I forget which mod these are from, but they're not from Firespitter, I know that. Heatshields: I had half a dozen modded heat shields, didn't unlock any stock ones yet. Decouplers: I had a couple of 2.5m modded decouplers, nothing stock unlocked.

Anyway, just my first impression. Overall, I'm impressed with the layout and looking forward to this play through. And no, I don't expect you to account for every mod in existence, obviously, I only mentioned the above since it jumped out at me. Just wanted to make sure a category/module flag didn't get missed or something.

Cheers.

Thanks @Deimos Rast!

As you mentioned, I just haven't gotten to all the great mods out there.  There is a list of the ones I have done and are supported, but even those may not have the very latest parts integrated.

Please let me know what part mods you are playing with and I will see if I can get them on the short list.

Balloons you say...  Very interesting.  That would fit very well in my vision for this tree.  Which mod are you using?  I'm guessing you are also running Linux?

I am really trying to release a new experimental version using Yonge's Tech Tree mod.  It includes several more part packs and the previously recommended node/part changes.  I've also re-arranged the node progression for @FreeThinker but that caused a few other nuclear part packs (@Nertea's) to be out of order, so I have to fix those.

The aircraft side of the tree is being overhauled.  @inigma is helping me with that.

So the next release will be a biggy.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and the disconnected nodes you see at the bottom of the tree are the holding areas that I use when distributing parts.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Probus

[Deimos Rast]

Balloons, from Kerballoons. The mod is in development at the moment, but it works well enough; adds a few balloons to the 'start' node, engineering 101, and I forget the rest.

Some more feedback: take a look at the Parachute node: the K&K Planetary recycling building parts show up there for some reason (water splitter elektron, water purifier, etc.)

Also, it seems odd that a lot of times I would unlock the more advanced piece of tech before the basic tech, like the most advanced piece of kOS hardware before the other two.

Yeah, Linux x64 bit.

A list of mods, heh, okay, here goes. Just the major ones that add parts, copied from the folder structure:

Atomic Age
B9 / B9 HX
CactEye
Contrares
CryoEngines/CryoTanks
CTN's Cube Sat & CRS Capsule
DMagic Orbital Science
Extraplanetary Launchpads
FASA
Firespitter
Fuel Tanks Plus
Heat Control
Heat Management
HGA's Proton
Infernal Robotics
KAS
KAX
Kerbal Atomics
Kerballoons
KerbodynePlus
KIS
kOS
KW Rocketry
LETech
Lack Luster Labs
Mod Rocket Systems
Nazari's VTS Packs
Near Future Technologies (Construction, Electrical, Props, Propulsion, Solar, Spacecraft)
Planetary Base Inc
Real Chute
Remote Tech
REPOSoftTech's AmpYear & Deep Freeze
RS Capsuledyne
SCANSat
Sum Dum Heavy Industries Service Module
Shadow Works
Solaris Hypernautics
SpaceY Lifters
Station Parts Expansion
SXMk2
SXT
Tantares / TantaresLV
Thunder Aerospace LS
Universal Storage
KSP Interstellar Extended
Wild Blue Industries Buffalo/DSEV/Pathfinder
OSE Workshop
USI ART/Exp PACK/FTT/FX/Karbonite/Karbonite+/Karibou/Kolonization/Kontainers/Orion/ReactorPack/SoundingRockets/SrvPack/SubPack/UKS/WarpDrive

I spend half my time in the editor trying to organize the parts with the Filter Extension mod. One of these days I'll actually launch a rocket!

Keep up the good work.

[SpaceBadger007]

I know it has not released yet, but when it does, have you considered integrating the sstu mod? Its got lots of good stuff!

Edited March 1, 2016 by SpaceBadger007

[Oakshios]

Would this be a good mod for someone that is using stock parts?  I don't like the Stock Tree setup, but feel like I need a ton of mods to make use of this properly.

[legoclone09]

10 hours ago, Oakshios said:

Would this be a good mod for someone that is using stock parts?  I don't like the Stock Tree setup, but feel like I need a ton of mods to make use of this properly.

You should at least get KW Rocketry, SpaceY, and DMagic Orbital Science, those should work fine and give you lots of parts.

[New Horizons]

Hi Probus, did you consider integrating Real Fuels (Stock-alike) into your tech tree?

[Oakshios]

On 3/1/2016 at 9:07 PM, legoclone09 said:

You should at least get KW Rocketry, SpaceY, and DMagic Orbital Science, those should work fine and give you lots of parts.

Would you consider those the bare minimum?  I would prefer to not use mod parts for a while longer.  Still can't do a rendezvous in orbit, though I can land on the Mun and return to Kerbin safely.

[legoclone09]

8 hours ago, Oakshios said:

Would you consider those the bare minimum?  I would prefer to not use mod parts for a while longer.  Still can't do a rendezvous in orbit, though I can land on the Mun and return to Kerbin safely.

Yeah, those are what fill in the tech tree. IT's fine you can't rendezvous, parts mods won't hurt or help that.

[Miravlix]

Started a fresh game with ETT installed, to try it out. Not gotten very far in the tech tree, because it's well constructed and create a good challenge.

 

Unfortunately I also found some of my stuff wasn't working and looking at ETT's files, I'm unfortunately not able to continue with praises, because as well engineered as the tech tree seems to be, the code creating it seems to have been created by the darkside.

 

:FINAL? Using tricks to make your addon named zETT so it get sorted last? I can't even fix the problems, because anything I do your mod will break again, unless I name myself zzXyf and then what, you're going to name yourself zzzETT to make sure you break it again?

[Probus]

On 3/5/2016 at 7:31 AM, Miravlix said:

Started a fresh game with ETT installed, to try it out. Not gotten very far in the tech tree, because it's well constructed and create a good challenge.

Unfortunately I also found some of my stuff wasn't working and looking at ETT's files, I'm unfortunately not able to continue with praises, because as well engineered as the tech tree seems to be, the code creating it seems to have been created by the darkside.

:FINAL? Using tricks to make your addon named zETT so it get sorted last? I can't even fix the problems, because anything I do your mod will break again, unless I name myself zzXyf and then what, you're going to name yourself zzzETT to make sure you break it again?

@Miravlix, this mod is complete spaghetti code.  It was meant for use by myself.  I only shared it because I enjoyed it and I thought others might too.  If it doesn't work for you, I'm sorry, don't use it.  

Also, I don't mind constructive criticism, but that means you need to include how to fix the mistakes, not make snide remarks.  That is totally unhelpful. 

[rumtreiber]

On 5.3.2016 at 4:14 AM, Oakshios said:

Would you consider those the bare minimum?  I would prefer to not use mod parts for a while longer.  Still can't do a rendezvous in orbit, though I can land on the Mun and return to Kerbin safely.

I don't use KW Rocketry or SpaceY and have a lot of fun currently in my first game using ETT. I am a scientist and therefor DMagic orbital science is a must have for me. You will be able to play the game without the part mods. Some of the later nodes will remain empty though.

@Probus  Actually I think it would be nice if ETT would focus a bit more on stock parts and treat part packs as possible expansion. I use some other mods I'd love to have integrated (they work with your tech tree but integration could be better) Please have a look at Pathfinder and Buffalo by @Angel-125. Those are great mods and deserve some better integration into your tech tree

I also have a question about parts distribution. Why is it possible to unlock the standard docking port before the junior?  Shouldn't it be the other way around? Especially as this TT features unmanned before manned and I prefer rather small unmanned vehicles which are not easy to use with the standard docking port. From the looks of it it would be nice to have an additional docking node so the parts of Advanced Docking could be distributed a bit more. Some of the parts in that node just don't feel like they belong there together.

Thanks for all the hard work you put into this, it is greatly appreciated. 

[Probus]

On 3/8/2016 at 4:00 AM, rumtreiber said:

I also have a question about parts distribution. Why is it possible to unlock the standard docking port before the junior?  Shouldn't it be the other way around? Especially as this TT features unmanned before manned and I prefer rather small unmanned vehicles which are not easy to use with the standard docking port. From the looks of it it would be nice to have an additional docking node so the parts of Advanced Docking could be distributed a bit more. Some of the parts in that node just don't feel like they belong there together.

Thanks for all the hard work you put into this, it is greatly appreciated. 

That's a good question @rumtreiber.  Sometimes the tree progresses in a small --> medium/miniature --> large progression with the thought of designing a mini docking port, for example, would be harder than making a regular sized port.  That is what makes it seem peculiar.  Sometimes the tech tree may take the approach of large --> medium --> small --> micro as in the case with a lot of the unmanned cores and some nuclear reactors.

To tell the truth, I have never really liked the way docking ports are laid out.  I may just switch them up like you suggest to follow the way that FASA does it with the Gemini/Agena ports.

There was no way for me to do a tree that was just stock parts because all the mods add such a diversity of part types, the tree would seem very shrunken to anyone who played with these mods.  My goal from the inception of this tree was to make it to include as many mods as possible, that just keeps pushing the node count up and up very slowly.

I really appreciate that you like it.  Is is still very much a work in progress, but hopefully it gets a little bit better with each release.

[rumtreiber]

On 10.3.2016 at 2:36 PM, Probus said:

There was no way for me to do a tree that was just stock parts because all the mods add such a diversity of part types, the tree would seem very shrunken to anyone who played with these mods.  My goal from the inception of this tree was to make it to include as many mods as possible, that just keeps pushing the node count up and up very slowly

Oh I think you misunderstood me. It is absolutely okay for me this tech tree supports lots mods. I just think the first set of nodes should also be playable with only stock parts. With playable I mean no empty nodes. For example I noticed the node Solid Rockets is empty for me. The next node, Advanced SRB, has the Hammer booster. I just wondered why this is not in Solid Rockets as Advanced Rockets also features the BACC "Thumper"

@PART[solidBooster]:NEEDS[zETT]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = AdvancedSRB
}

This is just an example where I think this tech tree could need some fine tuning for stock parts. Otherwise, like I already said, great job

If you don't mind I will report more things like this when I find them. If you want I can also create pull requests on github and or open issues there.

[hendrack]

Thank you very much for this mod. I was a bit frustrated with career games lately, CTT was too easy and Seti-CTT is too hardcore for my taste. I have not yet looked into Yongedevils tech tree plugin, but will it allow other players to contribute configs for their favorite mods? I am sure many players would like to contribute but don't want to edit .cfgs all day long in notepad. 

[Dr. Jet]

2 hours ago, hendrack said:

Thank you very much for this mod. I was a bit frustrated with career games lately, CTT was too easy and Seti-CTT is too hardcore for my taste. I have not yet looked into Yongedevils tech tree plugin, but will it allow other players to contribute configs for their favorite mods? I am sure many players would like to contribute but don't want to edit .cfgs all day long in notepad. 

SETI-CTT is hardcore??? Set you science reward to 10% and try to play ETT with restrictive mods like RemoteTech - you'll see the difference.

ETT is my favorite TechTree for now. It's a pity that it does not support my mod like SETI-CTT does, but nevertheless. 

[hendrack]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Jet said:

SETI-CTT is hardcore??? Set you science reward to 10% and try to play ETT with restrictive mods like RemoteTech - you'll see the difference.

ETT is my favorite TechTree for now. It's a pity that it does not support my mod like SETI-CTT does, but nevertheless. 

Alright, its hardcore in quotation marks. Compared to CTT Seti-CTT has a rough start though. I play ETT with 50% science and RT, although with Seti-Remotetech config. It's quite silly to have only one ground station. Enough offtopic I guess.

[Adik3714]

Hi, so what about the procedural fuel tanks and parts at all? The default fuel-tank size is within Basic rocketry 1.25. But what then? I think it's not possible to have more than 1060 L tank, nor a higher diameter with this tech tree. Do I not see the upgrade nodes or the upgrading itself doesn't work with ETT?

Edited March 21, 2016 by Adik3714

[Probus]

On 3/14/2016 at 8:40 AM, Dr. Jet said:

SETI-CTT is hardcore??? Set you science reward to 10% and try to play ETT with restrictive mods like RemoteTech - you'll see the difference.

ETT is my favorite TechTree for now. It's a pity that it does not support my mod like SETI-CTT does, but nevertheless. 

Hint taken @Dr. Jet.   As soon as we get to 1.1 release I will see what I can do about that.

On 3/21/2016 at 3:09 PM, Adik3714 said:

Hi, so what about the procedural fuel tanks and parts at all? The default fuel-tank size is within Basic rocketry 1.25. But what then? I think it's not possible to have more than 1060 L tank, nor a higher diameter with this tech tree. Do I not see the upgrade nodes or the upgrading itself doesn't work with ETT?

I haven't integrated Procedural Fuel Tanks into ETT... yet.  That's probably why you are having problems.

[Probus]

Checked against 1.1 and works just fine.

[secondcircle]

Does this work with the Universal Storage Mod?

I'm cant find the struts to mount the science parts but not the science parts themselves.