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Life support system

Cassel
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Cassel

Cassel

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Space stations need something that will make their construction interesting. At the moment, even in career mode, the space station gives us nothing.

The life support system could be based on oxygen and food. If one of them is missing, kerbals die.

Deliveries of these resources would depend on the player or AI. In a career mode to reduce costs, the player, if he wanted to, would be able to supply oxygen and food from time to time. But with more space stations to make this process not boring, you could use AI.
The player would have issued a "contract" for AI. AI would not have to simulate the whole flight, just from time to time the AI ship would be created in orbit and would dock for a few days at the space station, to the port indicated by the player. After a few days, he would detach himself from the station and leave, after leaving the zone of influence of physics he disappeared.

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Frozen_Heart

Frozen_Heart

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I'd like to see life support, but in a simplified kerbal way, rather than going full detail on it.

 

Aka it should be a single resource (maybe called supplies) which kerbals slowly use over time. However when it runs out they don't die, they simply hibernate. They would wake up when more supplies are delivered. This keeps life support as an important consideration, while still remaining easy to understand for casual or new players by cutting down on micromanagement.

 

The command pods should carry some, and the various modules which can hold kerbals.

 

There should also be some varying sized supply crates, and maybe a greenhouse module which would be a similar size to the science lab, and would actively generate small amounts of supplies over time when crewed and supplied with electricity.

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BadLeo

BadLeo

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

I'd like to see life support, but in a simplified kerbal way, rather than going full detail on it.

 

Aka it should be a single resource (maybe called supplies) which kerbals slowly use over time. However when it runs out they don't die, they simply hibernate. They would wake up when more supplies are delivered. This keeps life support as an important consideration, while still remaining easy to understand for casual or new players by cutting down on micromanagement.

 

The command pods should carry some, and the various modules which can hold kerbals.

 

There should also be some varying sized supply crates, and maybe a greenhouse module which would be a similar size to the science lab, and would actively generate small amounts of supplies over time when crewed and supplied with electricity.

That.

5 hours ago, Cassel said:

The player would have issued a "contract" for AI. AI would not have to simulate the whole flight, just from time to time the AI ship would be created in orbit and would dock for a few days at the space station, to the port indicated by the player. After a few days, he would detach himself from the station and leave, after leaving the zone of influence of physics he disappeared.

I think this is great stuff. It would bring life to the career game and reduce the feeling that the entire Kerbal society is resumed by the KSC and some companies somewhere launching kerbals to space in precarious pods with no way of getting back to Kerbin.

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Cassel

Cassel

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35 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

I'd like to see life support, but in a simplified kerbal way, rather than going full detail on it.

 

Aka it should be a single resource (maybe called supplies) which kerbals slowly use over time.

It seems to me that two types would be more interesting. Oxygen / air could be processed / filtered by additional parts of low mass.

Food would not be processed, only could be grown in a greenhouse.

These mechanisms would also give life to planetary bases, because now there is nothing to do there.
 

35 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

However when it runs out they don't die, they simply hibernate.

 

Nice idea, but maybe mortality could be set in the level of difficulty?
If someone likes easy, he would hibernate his kerbals, while at the level of hard kerbal would die of hunger or lack of oxygen.
 

35 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

There should also be some varying sized supply crates, and maybe a greenhouse module which would be a similar size to the science lab, and would actively generate small amounts of supplies over time when crewed and supplied with electricity.

I had this in mind :-)

 

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Tyko

Tyko

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Frozen_Heart said:

I'd like to see life support, but in a simplified kerbal way, rather than going full detail on it.

 

Aka it should be a single resource (maybe called supplies) which kerbals slowly use over time. However when it runs out they don't die, they simply hibernate. They would wake up when more supplies are delivered. This keeps life support as an important consideration, while still remaining easy to understand for casual or new players by cutting down on micromanagement.

 

The command pods should carry some, and the various modules which can hold kerbals.

 

There should also be some varying sized supply crates, and maybe a greenhouse module which would be a similar size to the science lab, and would actively generate small amounts of supplies over time when crewed and supplied with electricity.

Do you realize you just described USI Life Support almost exactly? They're even called Supplies. 

 

Edited by Tyko
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Tyko

Tyko

Posted
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15 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

Woah. That's pretty freaky lol.

 

I should probably give that mod a try.

Glad to help. I also have a MM config that adds a small quantity of supplies to any command module. If you want it just PM me and I'll shoot it over.

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Gargamel

Gargamel

Posted
Posted

I'm for stock having LS.  But it really shouldn't be any more complicated than a single resource consumed over time, per Kerbal, with a waste product that can be dumped or recycled.   Basically, Snacks!.  And make it optional.   Anything more complicated will kind of detract from the simplistic nature of systems in the stock game already.   And as long as they keep it simple enough that the more complicated LS mods would easily mesh right in with it, that would be even better.   

Keep it simple so there aren't a lot of new parts to deal with to complicate things.  A resource to consume which produces a waste.  A recycler to convert the waste back into the resource.  A generator to create new resources.    Couple different size/variants of these, and a nice simple working system would be in place. 

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mattinoz

mattinoz

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Tyko said:

Do you realize you just described USI Life Support almost exactly? They're even called Supplies. 

 

Yes, description is USI life Support to a Tee.

Which to me is basically stock life support and won't update till I know USI LS is working.

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Tonka Crash

Tonka Crash

Posted
Posted

@Burning Kan I added a fixed amount based on having a crew seat, so this would include the science lab and hitchhiker along with mod parts with crew capacity. 

// Add 5 day supply to every seat
@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[>0],@RESOURCE[Supplies]]:FINAL	// change existing allocations where they exist
{
    @RESOURCE[Supplies]
    {
	@amount = 55
	@maxAmount = 55
	@amount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
	@maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
    }
}
@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[>0],!RESOURCE[Supplies]]:FINAL	// add to any crewed parts without supplies
{
    RESOURCE 
    {
	name = Supplies
	amount = 55
	maxAmount = 55
	@amount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
	@maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
    }
}

 

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Burning Kan

Burning Kan

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks a lot , @Tonka Crash

very oftenedited: the idea came up to make a list of all life support mods (and life support tools ,specials,the make ksp more challenging),but i think i have seen something like that will link it if i find²

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD3bS9qj8mH_HzZdJuPZi--------------------------UNDERCOSTRU                                                                           

list of mods made,help to decide which one fits best for individual play style: (in no particular order)

addressed so far:USI life support,Snacks!,TAC life support,Kerbalism,Kerbal Health,Interstellar Flight Inc. Life Support,Closed Loop Life Support,Ioncross Crew Support,Soylent - Life Support through Algae,DeepFreeze,Univeral Storage I & II,Modular Kolonization System&(MKSlight/MKS Explainer),KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems

Some CONTRAs could also be PROs, just in case.Iam open for suggestions , i try to write this from a PRO-Positive View but some characteristics like "complexity" need to be on the CONTRA side,but definitely agree this is a HUGE PRO like the effort the community put into!

Spoiler

1)USI life support https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/105202-13-usi-life-support-050/

Spoiler

PRO:

  • Homesickness or starvation turn Kerbals into Tourists(instead of dying /Opt-out)
  • the larger your vessel habitat is, the slower your kerbals will get homesick (and go on strike)
  •  
  • good support and very fast up to date after new ksp release thx to @RoverDude
  • add greenhouse parts

 

 

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO:

SPECIAL: homesickness,

kerbal break/open locked supplies after 15 days without Eating [before starve]and EAT!

RESOURCES: supplies, mulch,organics,water,substrate ,

2)Snacks! https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/149604-14x-snacks-friendly-simplified-life-support/

a super-Kerbalistic and Stockalike representation of life support

Spoiler

PRO:

  • lightweight(stockparts)
  • highly configurable(
  • very kerbalike
  • KSPedia support
  • good support tru forum-member Angel 125

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

3)TAC life support https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/146465-141-tac-life-support-v0139-release-17th-march-2018/

a super-realistic and complex representation of life support    For people that want a simulation and not something fun and simple.

Spoiler

PRO:

  • 1.5.1 ready
  • supports:Community Category Kit and Community Resource Kit
  • adds
  • Kerbals will not start requiring resources until the first time that you focus the vessel, or get close enough that it loads(rescue contract bug)
  • community had much efforts to made/keep it real as possible

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

INFOs:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

4)Kerbalism https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/172400-131145150-kerbalism-v190/

provides a huge array of new gameplay systems (a lot more that simply life support) pers.NOTEdefenitly one of the best, i see for massive gameplay changing

Spoiler

PRO:

  • cramped quarters
  • good GUI

 

SPECIAL:

  • Radiation belts & Solar storms
  • atmosphere in the ship
  • a
  • very complex, realistic, with a lot of new features (a lot more that simply life support)

CONTRA:

  • cramped quarters ;)
  • add a high number of resources

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

5)Kerbal Health https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/155313-15-kerbal-health-131-2018-10-17-now-with-killing-planets/

 

Spoiler

PRO:

  •  

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

6)Interstellar Flight Inc. Life Support  https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/168008-144-now-in-beta-interstellar-flight-inc-life-support-full-release/

 

Spoiler

PRO:

  •  

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

7)Closed Loop Life Support https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/108297-130-closed-loop-life-support/

 

Spoiler

PRO:

  • allows the creation of fully self-sufficient interplanetary ships and bases
  • energy consumption of life support generators can be tweaked
  • life support usage and production is tracked for all ships, even in the background and during time warp /want confirmation on this(for hight time warp/round off bug)

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • massless food
  • Kerbals die

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

8)Ioncross Crew Support https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/74182-122-ioncross-crew-support-v1260-starwasters-branch-jul-7-2016/

 

Spoiler

PRO:

  •  

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES: oxygen, carbon dioxide

 

9)Soylent - Life Support through Algae https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/112127-122-soylent-life-support-through-algae-v0061-20161231-big-hellfire/

 

Spoiler

PRO:

  • retextured stock part?
  • low part count?
  • add no parts?

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

10)DeepFreeze https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/112328-14x-deepfreeze-v0238-16th-mar-2018/&amp   

 

Spoiler

PRO:

  • supports: *RasterPropMonitor(RPM),Connected Living Space (CLS),
  • cool looking parts
  •  

 

SPECIAL:

  • animated&*transpart CRYOPODS

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO:

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

11) Univeral Storage I & II      I:https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/68043-universal-storage-1400-for-ksp-14x-13th-march-2018/   

                                                    II:https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/177385-universal-storage-ii/

Spoiler

PRO:

  • Kerbal Attachment System(KAS) compatible ?
  • feature multiple height & Stockalike texture variants
  • very good looking parts and animations
  • part variants?(II)yes
  • Full KSPedia articles including animated gifs

 

SPECIAL:

  •  

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFO: http://www.kingtiger.online/balancing-universal-storage-ii/

            I: balanced using real world examples , calculated what each Universal Storage part could contain based on the model’s volume. This made for a                    accurate and realistic mod, but totally unbalanced against stock KSP and other mods (except realism overhaul)

           II: balance everything against either stock KSP or the 3rd party mod

SPECIAL:

RESOURCES:

12)Modular Kolonization System (MKS)     https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/154587-13-modular-kolonization-system-mks/&page=314    

MKS adds a rich array of new features to support the challenge of building interplanetary colonies

extension of existing mods, and or enhancement of career mode

Spoiler

PRO:

 

SPECIAL:Kerbal strike

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/152672-mks-documentation-development/&page=9

  • (including the resource system now integrated in the stock game)???

 

CONTRA:

  • a

INFOs:

 

 

SPECIAL:

MODS:

 

RESOURCES: [1.4.3]

13)KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems(KPBS) https://github.com/Nils277/KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems/wiki/Life-Support-Guide

 

 

14)Kerbal Space Transport System(KSTS) https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/148071-142-kerbal-space-transport-system/

 

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/159470-wip-anglecan-simplex-09-updated-30-sep-2018/

 

things should add to infos:

  • how much a kerbal consume per day
  • how much resources be added to pods for one kerbal &how long the survive with it
  • how long a kerbal survive without (Food/Water/Oxygen)
  • weight for one ressorce?

 

 

maybe DRE,Signal Delay,RT,a.s.o

KeepFit - Kerbal fitness degradation  https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/61510-120wip-plugin0119830102016-keepfit-kerbal-fitness-degradation/

SimpleLife* https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/141694-113-simplelife-stock-life-support-and-kerbal-recruitment/

SETI, Unmanned before Manned       huge stuff,puhhttps://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/95645-13x-seti-unmanned-before-manned-patreon/&page=99

SETI Greenhouse(1.2.2) link: https://spacedock.info/mod/19

[1.1.3] MunSeeker Mk1 Greenhouse (TAC Life Support add-on) https://github.com/MunSeeker/Greenhouse-Mk1

                                                                                                                https://github.com/MunSeeker/Greenhouse-Mk2

Modular Kolonization System light (MKSlight)   https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122094-113-mks-lite-a-lighter-friendlier-colonization-mod-from-usi-044/

outdated as it seems,correct me if iam wrong i will change it to active.

*(first test was buggy from depency/outdate)

 

 

did i miss one?      

found it:  ² https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/97470-life-support-discussion-and-comparison-updated-8142017/  

                   https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/158450-opinions-about-life-support-mods/

                                 

lastEDIT:31/10/18

 the three big problems with stock life support (in my view)would be :

Spoiler

1st)to much bugfixes needed before thinking of adding this huge gameplay changing/(perf)impact/maybe bring new bugs , stuff

2nd)it gives so much different playstyles(which is one of their succsess concept)like players in ksp. And to make a version the feed all our needs seems a very hard or impossible challenge.

3rd) and for me most important: the STOCK high warp-maybe kerbal die bug,which has a round off issue if time (most LS mods handle this with disable LS on high timewarp which is odd/unprecise, but a good workaround so this should be fixed before getting stock but then iam absolutly FOR a Stock Life System

 

Edited by Burning Kan
sh.. tab crashed, oneday work gone letsstart again but this time i push the save button(often)
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Tyko

Tyko

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Burning Kan said:

can you post it here for future?or a link to it,plz

Here's my code...it's similar to @Tonka Crash but applies only to Command modules and  mine doesn't overwrite any capsule that already has Supplies. This allows for the possibility of having pods that have more or less than the default value. 

// Adds 50 Supplies (per kerbal seat) to Command Modules
// Ignores parts that already have Supplies
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!RESOURCE[Supplies],#CrewCapacity[>0]]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Supplies
		maxAmount = 50
		@maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
		amount = #$maxAmount$
	}
}

 

The code below adds Supplies to crewed compartments that aren't Command Modules - like Hitchhiker and other station parts. 

// Adds 100 Supplies (per kerbal seat) to non-Command Modules
// Ignores parts that already have Supplies
@PART[*]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!RESOURCE[Supplies],#CrewCapacity[>0]]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Supplies
		maxAmount = 100
		@maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
		amount = #$maxAmount$
	}
}

 

Edited by Tyko
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Pthigrivi

Pthigrivi

Posted
Posted

Im generally of the opinion that with a UI polish USI-LS is basically ready for stock. The big thing LS begs for though are flight-planning tools--transfer aids and an alarm clock especially--so you can predict the duration of the flight you're planning and manage your life support accordingly. 

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Gargamel

Gargamel

Posted
Posted
On 10/26/2018 at 5:33 PM, The Dunatian said:

Can't let you guys party un-opposed. I think life support is a terrible idea that should never even be seriously considered for the stock game.

Any particular reason why, or are you just being contrarian for the fun of it?

8 minutes ago, mattinoz said:

What not even if switchable?

I think Matti here is right.  Anything that adds an element of difficulty to the game should be a toggle-able option. 

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