KSP2 Hype Train Thread

[darthgently]

On 10/22/2022 at 9:47 AM, Just a random person said:

I understood the whole Kerbol system will be in the first release

I think this may have been a joking reference to the fact that the original KSP1 added Mun later

Edited October 23, 2022 by darthgently

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

The collection of 'shelf regolith' is an important step. 

This inspires, as it requires a vacuum harvester. Hope, they are in the KSP-2.

Of course, four months more are important after the previous four years.

39 minutes ago, darthgently said:

I think this may have been a joking reference to the fact that the original KSP1 added Mun later

Exactly.

[Rutabaga22]

I think the first 3 points on the roadmap will be 2023, maybe the first 4, but I'm unsure about multiplayer.

[18Watt]

Some contents has been removed from this thread by the moderation team.  Please remember to keep your posts in line with our community guidelines, which can be found here: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/guidelines/.  

 

[LHACK4142]

On 10/22/2022 at 5:43 AM, Scarecrow71 said:

Ah, I missed that.  Thank you for pointing that out!

Step 1:  Early Access

Step 2:  ???

Step 3:  Profit!

...

...

On another note, I'm not sure I understand why people are all freaking out about the exclusion of features in the Early Access release.  Everyone was excited when the game was announced, and people got angry over the multiple and seemingly endless delays, with a few wondering why there wouldn't be an early access phase.  Now Intercept and T2 have announced an Early Access version of the game, specifically to get community input on bugs and issues and what works and what doesn't...and people are mad that they aren't geting the full game and they think that Early Access is a joke?

I get the sentiment about not having the features in the game you want to play through, such as multi-player or (even in my case) science and unlocking the tech tree.  Or maybe it's specific parts, or planets.  Or perhaps interstellar travel or colonization of the Kerbolian system.  Yes, we want all of these features.  But at what cost?  All of this stuff will eventually come in time, and while you are waiting you get your hands on KSP2 at a reduced cost (I believe the original ask was going to be $60, and EA is now $50; correct me if I'm wrong) AND you will end up getting all of those features at no additional cost to you.  Well, no cost other than you get to play the game without those features and learn how the game is going to function so when those features come out you are ready for them.  But no additional out-of-pocket cash for these features.  I'm not talking about DLC like with Breaking Ground/Making History, but core/stock features that will be included in updates.  Which, really, isn't anything different than what they did with KSP, right?  Science wasn't part of the original game.  Neither was repairing stuff in space.  Or inventory.

Me, for one, I am excited as all get-up about Early Access.  Day one, February 24th, I'm going to purchase this and play the bejeezus out of it.  I won't care about the stuff that isn't there because I'll be too darned focused on the stuff that is.

I'm not a fan of it because they might never fully implement the features announced so long ago. They say they will, but what's stopping them from doing nearly nothing then slapping a 1.0 version number when the amounts of that lovely green paper gets too low?

[TheOrbitalMechanic]

13 minutes ago, LHACK4142 said:

I'm not a fan of it because they might never fully implement the features announced so long ago. They say they will, but what's stopping them from doing nearly nothing then slapping a 1.0 version number when the amounts of that lovely green paper gets too low?

Yup. Everybody's excited to be finally getting something, but this is a delay announcement disguised as a release. What they're now actually promising to deliver when it comes out is KSP 1 sandbox mode with better graphics.

[Superluminal Gremlin]

And more parts, more color, more adjustability.

More STOCK parts ta very much

Sure, there's no extra content (Planets and star systems)

But who's to stop modders from doing what they do best?

 

[Bej Kerman]

8 hours ago, TheOrbitalMechanic said:

Yup. Everybody's excited to be finally getting something, but this is a delay announcement disguised as a release. What they're now actually promising to deliver when it comes out is KSP 1 sandbox mode with better graphics.

Are you saying that you think  Intercept hasn't finished the roadmap features yet? Of course they have. They just don't want inboxes to be flooded with feedback on everything at once?

Honestly, there's no winning here. Game delayed, people winge. Game comes out on Early Access with walls to keep Intercept inboxes tidy, people winge. Even when the game comes out with everything that was promised, people will still find things to winge about.

[Superluminal Gremlin]

At least the kraken is finally slain

R.I.P

(Will kraken drives exist even?)

[TheOrbitalMechanic]

12 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Are you saying that you think  Intercept hasn't finished the roadmap features yet? Of course they have. They just don't want inboxes to be flooded with feedback on everything at once?

Honestly, there's no winning here. Game delayed, people winge. Game comes out on Early Access with walls to keep Intercept inboxes tidy, people winge. Even when the game comes out with everything that was promised, people will still find things to winge about.

Yeah, fair. I can certainly see the merits of early access, but it's still disappointing that most of the game's original selling points have been relegated to future updates at some undefined date.

[Bej Kerman]

8 hours ago, TheOrbitalMechanic said:

Yeah, fair. I can certainly see the merits of early access, but it's still disappointing that most of the game's original selling points have been relegated to future updates at some undefined date.

They're not "future updates". They are walls designed to make sure Intercept is looking at one set of features at a time and not being flooded with too much feedback to handle.

[MechBFP]

23 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

They're not "future updates". They are walls designed to make sure Intercept is looking at one set of features at a time and not being flooded with too much feedback to handle.

If that was actually a real concern the game should have been early access for years now. It is such a sadly unbelievable excuse I am not sure if you are just choosing to lie to yourself for some reason. The ONLY reason it is EA is because they ran out of time and money, and this is the only alternative beside cancelling the project or releasing a really bad product and jumping ship.

EDIT: Make no mistake, I am happy it is going EA instead of the other options, but lets not sugar coat the reality here.

Edited October 24, 2022 by MechBFP

[Bej Kerman]

8 hours ago, MechBFP said:

If that was actually a real concern the game should have been early access for years now.

Is this all just because you are all mad you didn't get EA earlier? The game has grown a lot in the last few years.  KSP 2 two years ago was the polished KSP 1 you are secretly hoping that KSP 2 releases as. Now it's a fully fledged sequel because of all the extra time the devs got. Only now is it in a state good enough that the devs are confident enough to show to this, frankly, spoiled community.

But sure. The game's an incomplete mess because the roadmap is somehow indicative of what is currently complete, even though some of these features were first shown to be in a functional state YEARS AGO. Whatever helps fuel whatever forum drama you're trying to kindle.

8 hours ago, MechBFP said:

but lets not sugar coat the reality here.

I am being realistic. You are coating it with mud and vitrol. Why, exactly, are you doing this?

[Kerbart]

16 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I am being realistic. You are coating it with mud and vitrol. Why, exactly, are you doing this?

Well, they're people who are seriously upset that when they got the game ten years ago for $15, and after playing with it for thousands (no hyperbole) of hours, they actually have to pay for KSP2 (BuT wE WeRe PrOmIsEd FrEe UpGrAdEs FoR LiFe).

Not only that, but now that release is Early Access instead of a full blown game (which I am very happy about, it means a lot more excitement spread out over years to come). I mean first we had the Ever Given stuck in the Suez Canal, then an ugly war in Eastern Europe and now this? Have some understanding for the absolute horror these people have to go through. It's just one disappointment after another.

I suspect the nay-sayers are really hoping the game gets cancelled so they can say told you so. Now that it's not going to happen there's just bitter resentment.

[regex]

47 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

The ONLY reason it is EA is because they ran out of time and money

And if that's actually the reason then ... so what? Why does that matter?

[Scarecrow71]

55 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

EDIT: Make no mistake, I am happy it is going EA instead of the other options, but lets not sugar coat the reality here.

The sad and stark reality is that there are going to be people mad no matter what answer they get.  Delayed?  Mad because they want the game.  Early Access?  Mad because they want the full game.  Doesn't matter; they will find any excuse to sour themselves and try to sour the community on it.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Scarecrow71

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, regex said:

And if that's actually the reason then ... so what? Why does that matter?

Well it matters because the logic that they would get "overwhelmed with too much feedback" is just plain silly when they could have been getting feedback for months/years at this point. Like I have mentioned in another post somewhere, perhaps they actually did want to do EA for a long time and simply got denied by the higher ups.

I don't have any ill will towards the developers, because they are simply doing the best they can given the situation. However I don't have to accept their companies official statements when they quite frankly seem like rubbish.

Edited October 24, 2022 by MechBFP

[t_v]

 

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Are you saying that you think  Intercept hasn't finished the roadmap features yet? Of course they have. They just don't want inboxes to be flooded with feedback on everything at once?

this is not the case. 

at 11:01 in the video, Shana Markham says that early access is useful because the development can be focused and not spread out and unpolished. I take this to mean that pretty much everything was mostly complete but not fully, and wouldn’t be fully complete at a satisfactory pace, so the studio decided to put their full focus on parts of the game to get them complete. Very likely, the entire studio will shift to polishing the science and tech system around the time of the initial release. So these updates are probably not finalized, but they are also probably in late stages:

We know that they do in fact have the backend for these systems at least nearly finished, as Nate says at 3:34 that upon early access launch, the systems and technologies will be there. Optimistically, because multiplayer is something that is supported by the code, we’ll have five multiplayer mods out by the time the first stage is over. I think that the early access period will last just enough time for the devs to polish each feature, not code them from scratch  

 

20 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I don't have to accept their companies official statements when they quite frankly seem like rubbish

The developers aren’t going to outright state any development problems, at least outside of a postmortem. But outside and in between lines of promotional statements, there are truths. Nate talking about all the things that will be built on the systems present upon release means that there are systems on release. Shana talking about normal development spreading developers thin gives an indication of what is happening which is more informed than a worst or best case scenario. Lately, a lot of people have been disregarding solid evidence in favor of opinions, and it is unfortunate to see. 

[MechBFP]

7 minutes ago, t_v said:

The developers aren’t going to outright state any development problems, at least outside of a postmortem. But outside and in between lines of promotional statements, there are truths. Nate talking about all the things that will be built on the systems present upon release means that there are systems on release. Shana talking about normal development spreading developers thin gives an indication of what is happening which is more informed than a worst or best case scenario. Lately, a lot of people have been disregarding solid evidence in favor of opinions, and it is unfortunate to see. 

Oh for sure. I think development is likely in a pretty good place as well and they simply need more time to finish it up and polish it up. Unfortunately it looks like they ran out of time to do that, and EA was the best compromise they were able to make to appease the shareholders and potential customers.
I strongly believe that had things developed faster we would never have seen an EA, despite their claims that they need player feedback now.

[kerbiloid]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

but now that release is Early Access instead of a full blown game (which I am very happy about, it means a lot more excitement spread out over years to come).

Restarting the colonies from scratch.

***

Feels that somebody could realize that releasing a full game means releasing it once, like a supernova final of the KSP franchise.

While splitting it in parts can allow to be selling it for several years.

(Of course if it's indeed finished and the four months are not required to polish the Early Access features.)

[Serenity]

13 hours ago, Rocket Farmer said:

Now you are upset at the value proposition of spending another $50 upfront before seeing the new sequel?

Let’s face it at worst KSP2 is a completely unplayable jumble of code which never gets fixed at which point you’ve paid $90 to the KSP series for an amazing amount of entertainment.  That’s the worst case here for you (which is very unlikely).

So all of the mock upset and concern is total entitled bunk.

The key to your reply is ''at worst''.

Everything in life can be worse hence if we follow that sentiment we should always be happy and never look for something better and stop trying to improve the world around us

and seek for more since in retrospect the reality is yes it can always be worse.

You know this is a paradox right? Because if you are satisfied with what you have because there is always worse you would never have what makes you satisfied at the first place.

Our constant drive to not accept that is what actually brought us here, with games that have multiple planets to travel instead of 2D, because hey even in 2D it could be always worse,

you could have no games at all.

 

13 hours ago, Master39 said:

What you're seeing is a mix of big games becoming much bigger (and complexity doesn't scale linearly with game size and scope) and microscopic studios being able to make games that are up to standard if not better than AAA of a generation or two back.

That means a lot of crappy games, and even good games being crappier on average but it also gave us all the innovation in the past 15 years of gaming and way more choice in what we want to play.

Every successful new genre of games it's either coming from a crappy indie early access or the standalone version of a crappy mod.

I agree with your post but i can't see it relate too much with this current situation.

Kerbal 2 was being promised to have all these shiny features and the ambition to overcome the problems of KSP1 development and even at some points maybe diminishing how

hard they were to tackle with and how it can be done better.

If the approach was different, like ok we have an ambitious project lets release this in early access and slowly work to an amazing triple A game

i would be completely fine with it, fighting the bugs all the way and that's it.

Also the complexity increases for everything, not only the game itself but the tools available to create those games.

We can see individuals creating games which scope would require a studio a year or more to create.

I know you didn't mean it that way just a side note from me that the justification that games are too big now to be ''light bugged''

doesn't hold much value since the tools that exist now didn't exist back then not even close(and the knowledge).

[Serenity]

14 hours ago, Xelo said:

So should we criticize KSP2's team for their delays? I would say the criticism is about as valid as blaming your coworker for arriving late after they needed to use a foggy highway covered in ice at rush hour. While you can tentatively account for the time stuck in traffic, accounting for the car crashes along the way is a different story c:

Your post is great, this last paragraph is hard to think about but i am trying.

I would say though here is more like ''Your co worker is seeing all the car crashes and keeps saying i will be there in 5 minutes to his coworker and when he finally arrives the car has less than four wheels''

15 hours ago, SSTO Crasher said:

Here is my point

What do you think the developers have been doing these past 5 years, you think they have been delaying again and again and again for no reason. No it’s because they was a good game to come out and are dedicated to making it happen. They probably hated all the delays just as much as you did, their product that they have been working on for years had gotten delayed again. Oh and you endless complaining didn’t help either. In the shadowzone video he said not to just say IT SUCKS, after one second just because something didn’t work like you thought it should. Seems like you are doing it preemptively. What do you think that they would think if they saw you right now, bashing a game they have been working on for 5 years just because they decided to release it early and continue working on the other things. And keep in mind that anytime during the dev process something could have happened that stopped the game from ever being released in the first place. So be grateful you are getting a game soon, and will get a complete game when the time comes

First of all  always take content creators opinions with a grain of salt.You have to remember that when a source of income is in play the opinion will not 100% reflect the reality.

Secondly my endless complaining is a cry of please stop promising things you can't and won't deliver at least not in the window you are suggesting.

The more we ''endlessly complain'' about this fact the less we will be disappointed and this already happened because the early access version will not include almost any of the major new features.

About how optimized it will be i have my thoughts on it(red physics) but with all this content not present on the first release it might be uhhh acceptable. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Serenity

[darthgently]

28 minutes ago, Serenity said:

never have what makes you satisfied at the first place

Ah, but there is the issue.  Humans, many animals really, can very rarely be satisfied as they continually reset their expectations with the net effect being always wanting more.  

Dwelling on how things "should be better" is as demonic a trap as "at least things aren't worse".  The former leads to more demanding and entitled negative social behavior than the latter typically which at least has a bit of gratitude at it's core 

Edited October 24, 2022 by darthgently

[Serenity]

16 hours ago, MrFancyPL said:

Of course it is. I bet it is a whole lot easier iterating/bugfixing/working on a subset of the product, than on the whole of it. Fact, that they aren't sharing all of the features at the same time doesn't mean they don't have them prepared. It means testers (us) won't scatter across all the features of the full game, and we'll be focused on the parts of it they will test. I personally don't think thats bad, but I am scared AF for KSP2, if they can deliver (especially, that big publisher is at the steer).

In part you are right but see one of the biggest problems it creates is optimization.

Everytime they add a major feature there will have to be a cycle of optimizing it and then breaking it again until the completion of the next feature.

Not to mention that there will be the constant we will truly optimize it when all the major features are in the game, now its not the correct time to deal with that.

What you are saying about the big publisher that's another beast subject to tackle with.

3 minutes ago, darthgently said:

Ah, but there is the issue.  Humans, many animals really, can very rarely be satisfied as they continually reset their expectations with the net effect being always wanting more.  

Dwelling on how things "should be better" is as demonic a trap as "at least things aren't worse".  The former leads to more demanding and entitled negative social behavior than the latter typically which at least has a bit of gratitude at it's core 

Hahah very interesting, i like that , another food for thought post.

[Just a random person]

10 hours ago, darthgently said:

I think this may have been a joking reference to the fact that the original KSP1 added Mun later

Oh, I feel stupid now