Where's Star Theory?

[linuxgurugamer]

For the record (what’s a record), i hereby declare that i do not work for Star Theory

[Arugela]

I hereby declare that I do not declare that I do not work at star theory. I also hereby do not declare that I do not declare that I do work at start theory!

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Star Theory works instead of posting updates: Y U NOT POSTING UPDATES

Star Theory post updates: Y U NOT WORKING

That is just common sense. The trick is to make sure the update is done in a way that it feels like it's part of the work. Because when done right posting updates is a part of the work.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Arugela

[EchoLima]

Last time they showed in-game footage people complained about the framerate (despite it being pre-alpha). Maybe they're waiting until the game is more presentable to show more of it.

[Redneck]

48 minutes ago, Snark said:

Pretty much this.  I suspect they're ferociously busy, and/or don't have anything in particular to share.

Bear in mind that the large majority of development time is spent on stuff that would be utterly un-interesting to anyone who's not a programmer working on the project.  Stuff that players would actually be interested in and/or be able to see (e.g. game features) tends to come later in the cycle.

Also, bear in mind that any time they want to release some info, it's not just a simple matter of "okay, take five minutes out of my day to write up a post and fire it off".  It takes a lot of prep time and decision-making before choosing to release such a thing.  It's non-trivial.

Sure, but you can't "keep the community aware" of development if the development is a bunch of stuff that would be boring and/or incomprehensible to 99%+ of the prospective audience, which is what about 99% of the work in producing software is like.

I don't think it's even slightly strange.  I think they had the "big media push" because PAX is a big deal and they wanted to have something out for that, and they put a lot of effort into getting something presentable for public consumption.

And then go dark because they're, well, busy, and also likely haven't come up with anything demo-able during that time.

You'd know because you'd be too busy to post on the forums for the time being. 

Have you ever been part of a software development project?  Here's what the typical monthly update would look like:

• "Spent weeks ironing out <list of obscure bugs, described in terms that make no sense to you>."
• "Well, we worked on the physics calculations, and managed to optimize <gibberish> so that the <jargon> is now <cryptic number> better than <other cryptic number>."
• "Refactored <thing you'll never see> so that <obscure internal development process> will be <better in some way that makes no sense to you unless you're a developer>."

Seriously, there's nothing interesting or readable for most of this stuff.  Ever watched a big skyscraper being built?  For the first two-thirds of the construction period, it's just "dig a big hole in the ground".  Important and labor-intensive, but not especially watchable. "Oh, today the hole got <small amount> deeper."  Software's kinda like that, too.  A few bits are very interesting to watch, but most of it isn't.

Okay, so suppose they did post an update.  There's an excellent chance that it would basically just be:

"UPDATE:  We're doing a whole bunch of programming.  The end."

There's an excellent chance that there simply isn't anything that would be at all interesting or meaningful to anyone who's not working there.

^ Also this. 

 

^ Also this.

what this guy said. especially the part about watching a hole being dug. Im watching the SpaceX starship being built and its the same thing.....A metal <something> was attached and raised up and attached  to <some part> of the rocket Most of the work is going on inside of the ship out of view.

Be patient guys...its coming

[mcwaffles2003]

49 minutes ago, Snark said:

Have you ever been part of a software development project?  Here's what the typical monthly update would look like:

• "Spent weeks ironing out <list of obscure bugs, described in terms that make no sense to you>."
• "Well, we worked on the physics calculations, and managed to optimize <gibberish> so that the <jargon> is now <cryptic number> better than <other cryptic number>."
• "Refactored <thing you'll never see> so that <obscure internal development process> will be <better in some way that makes no sense to you unless you're a developer>."

Seriously, there's nothing interesting or readable for most of this stuff.  Ever watched a big skyscraper being built?  For the first two-thirds of the construction period, it's just "dig a big hole in the ground".  Important and labor-intensive, but not especially watchable. "Oh, today the hole got <small amount> deeper."  Software's kinda like that, too.  A few bits are very interesting to watch, but most of it isn't.

First, thank you for your response. Second, I am not a dev nor even a programmer (I know some Python, less C++, and a tad of HTML) but, as I said earlier:

3 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

I guess the factorio dev team has spoiled me with their FFF posts

https://www.factorio.com/blog/

Most of their updates are as you've described and the bit of back and fourth between the devs and community have really fostered a unique relationship and, in my opinion, has helped push the game to be better and better over time.

I've learned a decent bit actually from their updates, such as; complications in multi-threading, optimizing cache storage, etc..

All in all I realize many might not be interested but some would be and it'd be appreciated.

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Arugela said:

I hereby declare that I do not declare that I do not work at star theory. I also hereby do not declare that I do not declare that I do work at start theory!

And that is just what a Star Theory developer would post...

3 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

 

I just feel like an update would be nice, y'know? Theres a LOT of speculation going around and I hope they could clear a bit of it up since we have so little to go on so far.

(...)

I guess the factorio dev team has spoiled me with their FFF posts

I don't blame you. It's more the forum in general. If Squad rolls out an update that focuses mainly on fixing bugs, there's complaining that it's an update with "no content." When there is content, it's "fix bugs instead." I feel that they just can't win!

I suspect it will be the same with Star Theory. They could post more, though. Even if it's just one part every week, they'd have enough content to keep us excited.

[The Aziz]

The thing is, mentioned factorio and first ksp are already available for playing and receive constant updates. For early access titles, you get unfinished game to play and it's kinda obvious that the devs are posting more or less a roadmap for future, at least until the big one-point-oh hits. Otherwise the potential market would swarm the steam page with negative reviews for not keeping touch with the community (or worse, abandoning the game)

But then, there is ksp2 and many, many more big titles, and just look at them. They get a trailer or two and really maybe one note from the devs on Twitter, sometimes early gameplay reveal and that's it. Next step is release. It's not only spoilerless technique like someone here said (come on, movie trailers spoil whole plots sometimes) but it's also a business model.

I have a weird analogue here, don't know who's gonna understand it... The game is a house and there are two stores to go to get needed supplies. Obi and IKEA. And at this point they're still probably building the game, not decorating, so they're going to obi for cement, doors, windows and floors, and it's not really interesting now, is it? Time for shelves, chairs, plates and all various decorations will be later.

Aaand I'm late work work because of that

[mcwaffles2003]

GAHHHHHH I JUST WANNA PLAY IT SO BAD

I CANT SLEEP

MY COAT RACK AND LAMP REMIND ME OF ROCKETS

MY GF LOOKS LIKE VALENTINA 

AND I HAVE THROWN MY COUCH OUT THE SECOND FLOOR WINDOW ONLY TO REASSEMBLE ITS BROKEN PIECES TO THROW IT BACK OUT THE WINDOW AGAIN
I think I have a problem

Edited October 25, 2019 by mcwaffles2003

[Guest]

5 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

IS IT YOU??!

OR YOU?!?!

OR EVEN YOU?!?!?!??!?!

 

Do I work at star theory? how would I know?

*Shoots you in the head*

What? It was obvious! He’s the red spy!

Watch he’ll turn red any second now!

 

Any second now... see red!

No wait that’s blood.

 

Well, looks like we still have a problem.

[mcwaffles2003]

15 minutes ago, Master39 said:

*Shoots you in the head*

What? It was obvious! He’s the red spy!

Watch he’ll turn red any second now!

 

Any second now... see red!

No wait that’s blood.

 

Well, looks like we still have a problem.

How... did you know?

 

*dies*

[Drakenred65]

7 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Right, thats why I'm curious to how Star Theory plans on carrying it out differently than before and I dont think it would be so much a spoiler for giving small clues for asking the community as a whole of their opinion on the new alternative.

Probably because there still working on it. because, Really.....it’s not rocket science....

 

.....it’s programing! 

 

But realistically they probably are working on progression and may be trying to mod proof or at least minimize mods breaking  it.  So we can avoid problems like what happens when you stack mods like science and contract mods. As it is with all thi biomes at Kerbin and ksp and Science mods you get a big chunk of the science for everything back at Kerbin.

[klgraham1013]

12 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

IS IT YOU??!

OR YOU?!?!

OR EVEN YOU?!?!?!??!?!

I'm Spartacus!

11 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Star Theory works instead of posting updates: Y U NOT POSTING UPDATES

Star Theory post updates: Y U NOT WORKING

Smart people realize that community managers can post while programmers make the game.

[Kerbart]

2 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Smart people realize that community managers can post while programmers make the game.

What are you suggesting...

 

(JK)

[mcwaffles2003]

55 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

But realistically they probably are working on progression and may be trying to mod proof or at least minimize mods breaking  it.  So we can avoid problems like what happens when you stack mods like science and contract mods. As it is with all thi biomes at Kerbin and ksp and Science mods you get a big chunk of the science for everything back at Kerbin.

I really hope so, that mode is also broken to its core and I can see a much better type of campaign take its place

[DJWyre]

Maybe NASA has asked them to delay?

 

https://xkcd.com/2204/

[severedsolo]

I believe that the Spring 2020 deadline is going to come and go. Around about... oh let's say March, we'll get an update saying "hey we've decided to push the release back to <probably September> so we can really focus on optimising the game and giving you the best possible experience".

GTA V and Red Dead Redemption 2 (both T2 titles, albeit by a different developer) - did exactly this.

Although, in a counter argument to the above, GTA and RDR were accepting pre-orders and I suspect this was a ploy to get more pre-orders. With no KSP2 pre-orders available, I don't exactly see the motivation.

[Drakenred65]

34 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

I really hope so, that mode is also broken to its core and I can see a much better type of campaign take its place

Well that and also the concept gap of how on earth do Goo and thermometers lead to advanced radioes Rapier engines and advanced RTGs? The only core part that provides science that’s remotely applicable to designing or building a actual rocket is the SC9001.  

[mcwaffles2003]

21 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Well that and also the concept gap of how on earth do Goo and thermometers lead to advanced radioes Rapier engines and advanced RTGs? The only core part that provides science that’s remotely applicable to designing or building a actual rocket is the SC9001.  

I wish science could be useful in the ways of how science is actually useful. We visit planets and moons with everything essentially already discovered in KSP 1, we know where an atmosphere begins and its thickness vs altitude, we know what temperature it is and the composition of its atmosphere before ever going there. This is why I originally suggested creating a game catalog where in data is captured and maps out all the systems. This way we would need to find where bodies exist and the paths they move along, send probes to investigate how one could land on them once theyre reached, and finally, find out why we wanna go there in the first place.  I would like there to be an in game catalog that would update with data archived through having experiments. The catalog would update and hold characteristics of bodies which have had experiments conducted on them. For instance, doing a barometer experiment could give a profile to the atmospheres density vs altitude possibly in the form of a graph in the catalog or even filling out the air pressure bar (that could previously be left blank) giving the experiment real practical use.

Like how do we know what the atmosphere is like or its composition etc before we arrive. These things should matter and we should be using experiments to find that out

[kerbiloid]

Just a lightspeed delay. They're approaching to the apoapsis.

[Unixsystem]

20 hours ago, Snark said:

Have you ever been part of a software development project?  Here's what the typical monthly update would look like:

I should clarify that I don't necessarily mean so much actual realistic, live development updates, and more that I'd expect a pre-planned media rollout strategy. The initial announcement had quite a bit of fanfare, so in a lot of other circumstances I'd expect them to have a schedule of media releases planned out. For example, one month they'll have a text post going over the propulsion systems we saw in the trailer, largely covering the same info we saw in interviews with maybe one or two extra tidbits. Next months, maybe a handful of screenshots to show the planets of the Kerbin system and the face-lift that they've gotten. The month after, maybe a post about the new resources and how they will be managed (in general terms, I'm sure that even they haven't ironed out the specifics). Even if they were just posting some basic info with a few new screenshots every few weeks, it would be something to let those following the game latch onto and keep the hype train rolling. 

Again, I'm not saying that the lack of these things is really a problem, it's just somewhat surprising how big of a splash they made for the announcement, and how open they were with the community, followed by nothing. Hopefully they are just saving up all the new things they are working on for another big media circus in ~6 months. 

[Snark]

19 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

https://www.factorio.com/blog/

Most of their updates are as you've described and the bit of back and fourth between the devs and community have really fostered a unique relationship and, in my opinion, has helped push the game to be better and better over time.

I've learned a decent bit actually from their updates, such as; complications in multi-threading, optimizing cache storage, etc..

That's great, but it's totally apples and oranges.  KSP2 hasn't released yet, and is still many months from shipping anything.  Factorio, on the other hand, has been out for years, and has an extensive player base.

It's perfectly natural to have regular here's-what's-going-on posts for Factorio's situation, i.e. released software, because in that case there's not so much heavy lifting happening all at once.  It's incremental change, and it's being done with a highly engaged user base that provides lots of feedback on each increment, which helps to guide future increments.  That's incredibly valuable, both to the players and to the developer.  So it makes perfect sense.  Heck, it's what KSP1 has been doing for quite a while, with the various devnotes posts.

But a piece of software that hasn't shipped yet doesn't have that situation, and it makes a lot less sense to have incremental updates when the work being done is the "bones" of the architecture, and most of it wouldn't be interesting to most people anyway because it's just about getting things basically to work rather than honing and refining specific feature designs.

When I would expect them to be much more likely to have devnotes and active engagement would be once they're live and releasing patches/updates, because that's when they really need to engage with the community to be able to do the work.

10 minutes ago, Unixsystem said:

more that I'd expect a pre-planned media rollout strategy. The initial announcement had quite a bit of fanfare, so in a lot of other circumstances I'd expect them to have a schedule of media releases planned out.

That makes perfect sense.

But what makes you think that they don't have one?  I'm guessing they probably do.

10 minutes ago, Unixsystem said:

For example, one month they'll have a text post going over the propulsion systems we saw in the trailer, largely covering the same info we saw in interviews with maybe one or two extra tidbits. Next months, maybe a handful of screenshots to show the planets of the Kerbin system and the face-lift that they've gotten. The month after, maybe a post about the new resources and how they will be managed (in general terms, I'm sure that even they haven't ironed out the specifics). Even if they were just posting some basic info with a few new screenshots every few weeks, it would be something to let those following the game latch onto and keep the hype train rolling.

Sure, that would be one potential schedule they could do.

Or, for example, they could do something like "really crunch to get a few demoable things so we can make a big splash at PAX West, then dive back into coding like hell for several months with no further media releases, then have some sort of media schedule when it's closer to launch date".

I'm just a software engineer, not a marketer, so personally I make no presumptions about what would actually be best for them to do in that regard.  I assume that their marketers know their business and have some strategy, at least as a default assumption.

[Superfluous J]

11 hours ago, severedsolo said:

Although, in a counter argument to the above, GTA and RDR

...ended up pretty well, at least according to reviews.

11 hours ago, [email protected] said:

how on earth do Goo and thermometers lead to advanced radioes Rapier engines and advanced RTGs?

The same way shooting arrows at the bad guys teaches you how to craft better backpacks.

Really, if you want anything remotely approaching a realistic technological progression, play Sandbox mode.

[Lisias]

On 10/24/2019 at 7:12 PM, mcwaffles2003 said:

They announced in late august, did interviews through early september, ever since then... radio scilence

Elon Musk kidnapped them, he wants the whole team working night and day on the StarShip, using the know-how acquired by development KSP2 and playing KSP1 for years (What could possibly go wrong?). Roscosmos leaked this breaking news less than a week ago on the Kerbal Deep Net, and nobody knows for sure where they are at the moment.

NASA denies any involvement, but rumours are that they wanted to do it themselves but the planning was delayed by funding cuts and Musk run over them on this.

 

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Elon Musk kidnapped [Star Theory]....

...then traded them to the Greys in Area 51 for some 100+ year old German Rocket Scientists who recently returned from the National Socialist German Workers' Party Base on the far side of the Moon.

[snip]

Edited October 26, 2019 by James Kerman
redacted by a moderator

[James Kerman]

Some content has been removed, please keep the discussion on topic.

The reason some non profane words are filtered is that they have created problems in the past. We wish to keep the forum a friendly and welcoming place for everyone and as such some topics are off limits for discussion here because they cause trouble.

[On topic and speaking only as a member here]
I have no idea what it takes to make a game like KSP 2 but I'm sure all the people involved are working very hard to bring us a successor to KSP that will be a great experience for both old and new players. As mentioned upthread Star Theory has solicited and received a great amount of input from the community and will have their work cut out in attempting to incorporate these new features and requests. Please be patient as I see the lack of new information as very positive in that the devs have a lot to implement and it would not be advantageous to announce or preview things that might not make it to the final release.