Michael Collins Memorial - KSP2 Poll

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

the Neil Armstrong memorial was, in my view, a mistake

Yes, what a shame Squad put another, slightly more handcrafted rock on the Mun. What a terrible mistake that threatens ruining KSP.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Yes, what a shame Squad put another, slightly more handcrafted rock on the Mun. What a terrible mistake that threatens ruining KSP.

If it sets a precedent for larding the entire game with memorials to all and sundry, that’s only a slight exaggeration as far as I’m concerned.

[Souptime]

49 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Yes, what a shame Squad put another, slightly more handcrafted rock on the Mun. What a terrible mistake that threatens ruining KSP.

how does it threaten to ruin ksp??? i was think maybe certian anomalies named after historic astronauts like "Gagarin's anomaly" that would spawn in around a random body, they would look like the monoliths except instead of squad it would be an engraving of the astronaut, their name and DOB/DOD. memorials and easter eggs scattered around the stock system dont threaten to ruin the game and i find it interesting to find such things. theyre pretty small and you still have a low chance of finding them. but thats just my opinion

example drawing soon

[Souptime]

10 minutes ago, Souptime said:

how does it threaten to ruin ksp??? i was think maybe certian anomalies named after historic astronauts like "Gagarin's anomaly" that would spawn in around a random body, they would look like the monoliths except instead of squad it would be an engraving of the astronaut, their name and DOB/DOD. memorials and easter eggs scattered around the stock system dont threaten to ruin the game and i find it interesting to find such things. theyre pretty small and you still have a low chance of finding them. but thats just my opinion

example drawing soon

drawing on my laptop is HARD but here it is: 

[SunlitZelkova]

14 hours ago, Master39 said:

Currently is only 1 astronaut and only for KSP1 and we're already talking like it's a thing for all Apollo 11 astronauts and it's only natural to extend this to KSP2, and somebody already mentioned that Collins was not the first to be solo in orbit and that reasoning already start adding a whole bunch more forgotten Apollo astronauts.

 

And here you're already talking about adding 13 more graves to what would then really become a small graveyard and bring that number up to 24 in time in a sort of morbid dead astronaut collection.

I would say that is best to leave it as a "one time thing" for the first ever human to walk on another world and even avoiding bringing it as it is to KSP2 (maybe change it into something more subtle like a flag or a spent landing stage with a plaque on it.

Or, maybe, if you really need to remember every Apollo astronaut then add a plaque (always on something subtle like a flag or a semi-buried spent stage) with all their names, even the ones still alive (and without death date).

I'd like to clear a few things up.

Earlier I said that a Collins memorial should be a thing only if the devs bring the Armstrong memorial to KSP2. Otherwise, it should not be. I am not advocating for bringing the Armstrong memorial over from KSP to KSP2, that is the dev's decision, but if they decide to, then I believe there should be a Collins memorial. However if there is no Armstrong memorial, then I do not believe there should be a Collins memorial.

The reasons I listed for limiting memorials were intended to be reasons to stop at Apollo 11. I did not intend to advocate for a memorial for every single person who has been to the Moon. I did intend to mention the reasons that actually open up the possibility of more memorials beyond Apollo 11 are poor, but I should have been more clear.

I recognize that talking about a Buzz memorial was very morbid. I did not intend to advocate for one now, I brought it up because "where the memorials will stop" was mentioned, and given that my reasoning for a Collins memorial results in only Apollo 11 astronaut memorials, that implies there will be a Buzz memorial, so I mentioned it as part of explaining the justification for a Collins memorial. I apologize for the disturbing remarks.

My reasoning for a Collins memorial in KSP2 looks like this-

1. It should only be there if the Armstrong memorial is carried over from KSP

2. The reasoning for it is not because of Collins' achievements per se, but because he was an Apollo 11 astronaut, and it would make sense to have one for Collins if there is one for Armstrong

My reasoning is defeated in the event the Armstrong memorial was intended as a tribute to the first man on the Moon as opposed to the mission itself, and of course if there will be no Armstrong memorial in KSP2.

With this post, I am not trying to "bring you over" to the side of those wanting a memorial. I just want to clear up my views so they are not misunderstood.

[Vanamonde]

It's a memorial thread, people. Some off topic comments have been removed and please try not to make it acrimonious. 

[Dientus]

Just throwing this out there. >IF< the devs decide to add memorials then it could be done like the Vietnam veterans memorial in DC (U.S.A.) to keep the number of individual sites down to one.

I myself do not advocate any memorial in KSP2. Yes they are all great people who did things I can only dream of and helped to inspire games such as this, however I feel a mod could cover that for those who want it and it has no place in base game. Thats just my two cents worth.

We will just have to see what the devs do when KSP2 drops.

 

[Bej Kerman]

31 minutes ago, Dientus said:

it has no place in base game

Why.

[Dientus]

12 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Why.

For myself, I think it is in poor taste. To expand on that, in a game where there is no real 'death' and comes across as a, I can't think of the proper word but, softcore introduction to space with bouncy green beings that do not really experience the true severity of space, it seems to trivialize what what actually experienced and accomplished by these people.

 

If this were meant to be a true, complete simulation, correct celestial bodies, life support, radiation, to the point of trying to be as real as possible, not only with physics but with humans, death.. i.e. serious.. then I would think differently.

*Added - I love ksp, but it is meant to be a game and makes quite a few sacrifices for playability. Not asking for anyone to agree, just trying to clarify my point of view as asked.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Dientus
added

[pandaman]

In general I tend to agree with what @Kerminator K-100 said.  It is not practical to have memorials to every astronaut or otherwise significant person, I think is nice to remember or acknowledge them in some way, but the issue of 'where to draw the line' will be ever present unfortunately. 

Naming features after the people, and using artifacts as anomalies to mark notable missions could be one way to do it, and KSP1 does this to an extent already.

Whilst I do feel the Armstrong Memorial structure  itself is a bit 'out of place' I do regard it as a place of 'homage'.  I seem to remember the devs saying that it was intended mainly as a commemoration of Apollo 11 so they will possibly add Collins' name to it, and Aldrin's too when the time comes.  Also, unlike many other equally important missions (e.g. Gagarin), Moon landings do have an actual 'place', or at least coordinates, for a 'marker' to be located.

[Kerminator K-100]

[snip]

Its not that it goes against canon, its that it is in poor taste, could be seen as offensive to other astronauts, and doesn't really fit KSP.

A simple, thanks to all astronauts loading screen tip, would be in much better taste and be more inclusive.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Vanamonde

[Guest]

[snip]

For me at least it's not about canon at all. KSP doesn't even have much of a canon AFAICT. It's about immersion, for want of a better word. 

KSP is, for me, first and foremost a game. I want to immerse myself in it, suspend my disbelief, and pretend it's all real, that I'm really helping these lovable little green beings make it to space. Fourth-wall breaking features jolt me out of that, so I would prefer that they leave them out.

Spoiler

I also concur with @Dientus that they're in poor taste, and that there are better, subtler, and less intrusive ways to give nods to greats of space exploration.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Guest

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Brikoleur said:

It's about immersion

Immersion doesn't matter lol.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

Immersion doesn't matter lol.

It does to me. 

[Kerminator K-100]

Just now, Bej Kerman said:

Immersion doesn't matter lol.

I'd argue that depends on who you are. I care about immersion and clearly so does @Brikoleur. You may not. That's fine, KSP is a single player game. You play how you want. But the Armstrong memorial breaks the flow of the game. Its weird and doesn't fit. This is bad game design and something SQUAD should fix, by making a less intrusive memorial.

[PlutoISaPlanet]

The chances of finding the monument are extremely low unless you purposefully visit it.

[Kerminator K-100]

Just now, PlutoISaPlanet said:

The chances of finding the monument are extremely low unless you purposefully visit it.

Which adds to my point that it doesn't work. What good is a memorial if no one visits it?

[PlutoISaPlanet]

Just now, Kerminator K-100 said:

Which adds to my point that it doesn't work. What good is a memorial if no one visits it?

You could have coordinates for the memorial on the map (x marks the spot).

[Kerminator K-100]

Just now, PlutoISaPlanet said:

You could have coordinates for the memorial on the map (x marks the spot).

Maybe? But that is really in your face. Like SQUAD is forcing you to visit a place.

[PlutoISaPlanet]

1 minute ago, Kerminator K-100 said:

Maybe? But that is really in your face. Like SQUAD is forcing you to visit a place.

It could be in a menu, not front and center.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, PlutoISaPlanet said:

It could be in a menu, not front and center.

Or it could be replaced by a section in the credits, paying tribute to the pioneers of space exploration. 

Do you feel it’s important that it’s an in-game memorial? If so, why?

[PlutoISaPlanet]

17 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

Or it could be replaced by a section in the credits, paying tribute to the pioneers of space exploration. 

Do you feel it’s important that it’s an in-game memorial? If so, why?

Im just proposing one of many ways it could be done.

[dave1904]

I do not think we need memorials in a game. People that know who Michael Collins was do not need to be reminded about him and people that do not will not get the easter egg in a game. 

On 5/1/2021 at 3:02 AM, MechBFP said:

And? I don’t like that either. I don’t like 4th wall breaking references in games unless they are a comedy game. 

agree 100% I hate flying over the Degrasse sea. Every time I am there I roll my eyes.

[dave1904]

On 5/1/2021 at 3:45 PM, Bej Kerman said:

A guy died and we want a memorial for this important person in a very popular and relevant game, but I suppose whatever lore KSP has would be more important ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes the lore is more important. The Apollo 11 crew will go down in the history books next to julius caesar and alexander the great. In 3000 years if we exist people will read about Apollo 11. Nobody will read about KSP. 

[pandaman]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Immersion doesn't matter lol.

Obviously the 'lol' was intented to convey that you aren't serìous.

But immersion breaking interruptions can be very frustrating.