Show and Tell - Procedural Radiators

[Rutabaga22]

On 4/14/2022 at 4:02 PM, KerikBalm said:

Still waiting to hear details on colony building vs ship building: ate they completely separate part sets?  Can you mix and match ship/ colony parts? Can you move colonies with some sort of propulsion system?

 

I hope colony building doesn't require Launching each part of the colony, and they add some form of planetary construction system which would mean that they are separate part systems. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Kerballego22

[The Aziz]

First level of your colony does require bringing inflatable modules to the surface, but once you have access to resources, you can start building on site.

[Rutabaga22]

On 5/2/2022 at 1:18 PM, The Aziz said:

irst level of your colony does require bringing inflatable modules to the surface, but once you have access to resources, you can start building on site

This is exactly what I was thinking, early colony parts would need to be inflated for use, but the later ones could be built on the surface.

[GigFiz]

On 5/20/2022 at 12:40 PM, Rutabaga22 said:

This is exactly what I was thinking, early colony parts would need to be inflated for use, but the later ones could be built on the surface.

Well, considering we do know that there will be orbital shipyards for building stuff like huge interstellar craft that are too big for the VAB, it is a pretty small jump from there to on site building. And actually, at least at one point I swear they said you would be able to build new VAB analogues on other planets as well, so presuming that this is still going to be the case, then you will definitely be able to expand colonies without having to land everything. I presume that you will still have to build each part of the expansion and then plug it into place; the idea of Subnautica style point and build (I don't know if you had this in mind or just normal kerbal style, but built on the surface; I'm not putting words in your mouth, just kinda running with it) does have some appeal, especially when you start getting into really large/complicated/weird looking colonies, but it also doesn't seem very Kerbal like, but on the other hand, some stuff might get almost impossible to build otherwise. 

That does also make me curious about how they will handle joining together landed colony parts, ie: base frames, wheels you can retract or jettison, will there be legs that can auto level so it won't be quite the nightmare to build on less even terrain like it can be in ksp1, etc. I'm sure they have this stuff in mind, just curious to see what they end up going with.

[Rutabaga22]

14 minutes ago, GigFiz said:

Well, considering we do know that there will be orbital shipyards for building stuff like huge interstellar craft that are too big for the VAB, it is a pretty small jump from there to on site building. And actually, at least at one point I swear they said you would be able to build new VAB analogues on other planets as well, so presuming that this is still going to be the case, then you will definitely be able to expand colonies without having to land everything. I presume that you will still have to build each part of the expansion and then plug it into place; the idea of Subnautica style point and build (I don't know if you had this in mind or just normal kerbal style, but built on the surface; I'm not putting words in your mouth, just kinda running with it) does have some appeal, especially when you start getting into really large/complicated/weird looking colonies, but it also doesn't seem very Kerbal like, but on the other hand, some stuff might get almost impossible to build otherwise. 

That does also make me curious about how they will handle joining together landed colony parts, ie: base frames, wheels you can retract or jettison, will there be legs that can auto level so it won't be quite the nightmare to build on less even terrain like it can be in ksp1, etc. I'm sure they have this stuff in mind, just curious to see what they end up going with.

I said EARLY colony parts. I believe that when you are first setting up a presence on a planet you will be using [part like what you have in Pathfinder. But, as you get to a a larger colony you will be doing surface construction. Heck, even early VABs could be inflatable. I mean starbase uses tent for parts of construction. My point is that early colony stuff will need to be brought with you.

[GigFiz]

10 minutes ago, Rutabaga22 said:

I said EARLY colony parts. I believe that when you are first setting up a presence on a planet you will be using [part like what you have in Pathfinder. But, as you get to a a larger colony you will be doing surface construction. Heck, even early VABs could be inflatable. I mean starbase uses tent for parts of construction. My point is that early colony stuff will need to be brought with you.

I understand that. I apologize if I was unclear or I misunderstood what you were saying, I was replying the this one here (as I now realize I quoted the wrong one).

On 5/2/2022 at 9:32 AM, Rutabaga22 said:

I hope colony building doesn't require Launching each part of the colony, and they add some form of planetary construction system which would mean that they are separate part systems. 

And was saying that yes, as I recall from what I've read, early colony parts will have to be launched individually, but at some point a VAB analogue will be buildable (and was saying my memory of where they said that was a bit hazy, but I remember for certain about orbital dockyards, so ones on other planets are a logical extension, anyway) and at that point construction will be (presumably) purely surface based (whatever that looks like). And then was just rambling about how I wonder about the systems for joining together those early landed colony parts, since in KSP1 it can get a bit....finicky.

Actually, out of curiosity, by "separate part system", what did you have in mind/desire for a planetary construction system. You sound like you have a type of system in mind and would love to hear your thoughts

[Rutabaga22]

13 minutes ago, GigFiz said:

Actually, out of curiosity, by "separate part system", what did you have in mind/desire for a planetary construction system. You sound like you have a type of system in mind and would love to hear your thoughts

I'm thinking a tiled build system. A VAB style menu on the side with all the different parts, overlays for resource transfer and  life support (If required).  Maybe even a system to select the layout for your colony and then it auto builds what you want for a colony as you get resources. So, basically you "Design" your colony, let it build as resources are gathered, and then you can expand it as you go. Demolition would be a cool feature that could allow for additions to your colony as you expand. For example, you build a low tech mun colony, but as you get better parts for it, you can demolish and rebuild a building with higher tech.

[GigFiz]

4 hours ago, Rutabaga22 said:

I'm thinking a tiled build system. A VAB style menu on the side with all the different parts, overlays for resource transfer and  life support (If required).  Maybe even a system to select the layout for your colony and then it auto builds what you want for a colony as you get resources. So, basically you "Design" your colony, let it build as resources are gathered, and then you can expand it as you go. Demolition would be a cool feature that could allow for additions to your colony as you expand. For example, you build a low tech mun colony, but as you get better parts for it, you can demolish and rebuild a building with higher tech.

Interesting. I quite like where you are going with that; it almost gives off kind of an oldschool SimCity vibe (in a good way). at least as a starting spot, then made 3d and Kerbalized. When I was first replying, my brain went in a kind of subnautica/satisfactory direction (especially with kerbals having inventories in ksp1 these days that they can build with a bit), but I quite like what you are getting at. Having that VAB-like ability to adjust and it from all different angles, and tinker/experiment/manipulate stuff would be really useful and would eliminate a lot of potential hassle on larger colonies/bases (in fact, running with that, I wouldn't mind having some of that functionality on space stations that have dockyards (only the orbital shipyards though, I think; it would be kind of cheating with smaller stations, but for something massive enough to be a shipyard it would be really handy to be able to tinker with the design a bit without having to do massive redocking operations or just building a new station)). Having a way to view resource chains a la SimCity electrical/water view (very roughly analogously, at least), could be handy too, especially depending on how that whole subsystem ends up being implemented, and an auto build/build time system tied to resources seems like a good way to gate things fairly (and also would let you just go crazy in sandbox mode with resource management turned off, assuming that will be an option).

Almost most of all, I really like the concept of being able to destroy/rebuild as you get new and better parts and technology. I definitely like to upgrade bases and stations, both technologically and cosmetically, as I progress along, and the sheer hassle of that has very often led me to just abandon older bases and start from scratch as I move up the tech tree; being able to actually update and evolve, at least the important ones, instead sounds REALLY nice. When I first read your idea, I thought it sounded like too much of a departure from the rest of the game, but after further consideration, I take that back completely, I think something along those lines would be a great way to integrate the new gameplay elements. I also am in favor of things that make you more invested in your colonies and stations; as it stands now, it's fun creating new ones, but once they are in place,  there is really nothing, apart from a bit of science and fuel, outside of your imagination keeping them actually relevant for anything. I'm definitely glad they seem to be moving pretty heavily in that direction for ksp2.

As far as I've seen, they have shown us next to nothing about what they are actually implementing for those gameplay elements and systems, but I hope they are at least heading in a direction closer to your ideas than to ksp1

[Astroneer08]

I have ksp 1 and love the idea of procedural parts! Will this be available for solar panels too?

[Domonian]

4 hours ago, Astroneer08 said:

I have ksp 1 and love the idea of procedural parts! Will this be available for solar panels too?

We have no confirmation as of right now, but many players want it and the tech is already there, so I wouldn't really get your hopes up but there's a possibility. 

[RandomGrape]

Oh my, crispy 4k RTX radiators!

[Nirgal]

After playing Terra Invicta quite a bit, I'd love to see some radiator designs with a similar aesthetic to their 'tin droplet' radiators. Man those are cool.

[X-Marshal]

YES, looking forward to playing with these!

[Bej Kerman]

On 7/7/2022 at 9:06 PM, Rutabaga22 said:

you can demolish and rebuild a building with higher tech

Why not skip the demolition part altogether? I don't think complexity for complexity's sake needs to be introduced to KSP 2. This is something KSP 1 got right. You have the money to upgrade the launch pad to support heavier rockets, so you click one upgrade button. You don't have to demolish it, timewarp as ground crew demolishes it, then build another, or at best, click two buttons. Why do either when you can just hit an upgrade button?

[Tazooka]

I wonder when these will be added

[The Aziz]

When heating and thermodynamics is added.

Edited March 21, 2023 by The Aziz

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Other than aesthetics, why do we need procedural radiators? 

[darthgently]

30 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Other than aesthetics, why do we need procedural radiators? 

From what I recall from interviews, radiators going to be much more important in mature KSP2 interstellar long burns and given the probable size of interstellar engines having the radiators procedural is likely easier than providing 10 more static plus sizes.  I'm guessing, of course

[Little 908]

This will be sweet for my interstellar size ships

[TheBlackJackal]

So, in comparison to a lot of the folks here, I'm a newbie when it comes to KSP.  what exactly is meant by Procedurally Generated?

[Vanamonde]

5 hours ago, TheBlackJackal said:

So, in comparison to a lot of the folks here, I'm a newbie when it comes to KSP.  what exactly is meant by Procedurally Generated?

In this regard, it means that the basic part can be stretched or otherwise customized to fit the thing you're building. 

[InterstellarDrifter]

8 hours ago, TheBlackJackal said:

So, in comparison to a lot of the folks here, I'm a newbie when it comes to KSP.  what exactly is meant by Procedurally Generated?

Procedural generation means that something, whether it be terrain, a part, a texture, a skybox, a weather system, an animation, etc.. has been built by your computer via a pre-programmed algorithm. This can take many forms and can be designed to be altered by the player or simply employed by the program randomly in order to create said thing without artist/dev/player/user input, or build a custom unique experience rarely to be replicated. Much of the gaming industry currently uses this technique to create large, unique worlds, with no two being the same. It is also used to create characters, creatures, and objects, which saves much time for devs and artists on the front-end(albeit, with heavy back-end investment) which also provides broad, individual experiences for users. Most contemporary games use this in some form or fashion.

In the current sense in which you are asking, the part that is being created is not pre-built(baked-in), it is algorithmically created with your specific inputs. So, you can drag and click, and a part has a size and texture that is visually and practically functional, as if it were a pre-made asset.

Edited April 8, 2023 by InterstellarDrifter

[TheBlackJackal]

3 hours ago, InterstellarDrifter said:

Procedural generation means that something, whether it be terrain, a part, a texture, a skybox, a weather system, an animation, etc.. has been built by your computer via a pre-programmed algorithm. This can take many forms and can be designed to be altered by the player or simply employed by the program randomly in order to create said thing without artist/dev/player/user input, or build a custom unique experience rarely to be replicated. Much of the gaming industry currently uses this technique to create large, unique worlds, with no two being the same. It is also used to create characters, creatures, and objects, which saves much time for devs and artists on the front-end(albeit, with heavy back-end investment) which also provides broad, individual experiences for users. Most contemporary games use this in some form or fashion.

In the current sense in which you are asking, the part that is being created is not pre-built(baked-in), it is algorithmically created with your specific inputs. So, you can drag and click, and a part has a size and texture that is visually and practically functional, as if it were a pre-made asset.

Thank you! That makes more sense to me now!

[DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc]

How did i never read this thread?? I LOVE THE PROCEDURAL RADIATORS! For some reason, every time i saw them in the thousands of times i saw the KSP2 trailers, i thought they were solar panels stacked and clipped through each other.

On 3/26/2023 at 11:13 AM, darthgently said:

From what I recall from interviews, radiators going to be much more important in mature KSP2 interstellar long burns and given the probable size of interstellar engines having the radiators procedural is likely easier than providing 10 more static plus sizes.  I'm guessing, of course

Plus, it looks amazing!

[EvelynThe Dragon]

Please, please , please do NOT over-simplify heat management. A large part of what I enjoy in KSP 1 is solving difficult issues. I used Nertea's excellent mods and the heat control model with different heat sources having potentially different operating temps that necessitated multiple heat control loops is something I absolutely want in KSP 2.

Perhaps a toggle in game for those of us who want the increased difficulty. But please give us the option to do things "the hard way" as for some of us, that is what we want and enjoy.