KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[StrandedonEarth]

A UPS would be better than.a plain voltage stabilizer (which IIRC is a built-in feature on most UPSs) because it has the power reserve to make up for the voltage dips. 
 

After making sure your PSU is up to the task, as Joe stated. 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Oh - and sad news; if your power fluctuations and low power PSU did do a number on your system; it's devilishly hard to figure out what components still work if something is indeed fried.  However; if you plug in a decent PSU and everything works - thank whatever lucky stars it was that easy!

 

(I effectively and unintentionally got a new computer b/c I'd neglected the PSU for too many generations)

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

On 2/28/2022 at 10:03 PM, Nuke said:

the sound feels a little bit cheap for what i paid for this thing though. the bass is weak and the midranges are downed out by the higher pitch sounds. i was hoping to get the ginormous full range speakers off my desk, but they stay for now.  its funny, i found the speakers on the side of the road and connected them to a $10 chinese no-name amp, and it still sounds better than most modern audio devices. the FI32U supposidly has better sound, but i doubt even that would be as good as my full ranges. 

Honestly, I've never tried the sound on my monitor.  I feel like monitor speakers are a complete afterthought put on there to attract non-gamers so they can hear what's going on in a zoom call or a YouTube video.

On 3/1/2022 at 12:35 AM, Nuke said:

now for the hard part, teaching mom to use 4 arrows and an enter button. so far its not going so well. 

Lolz!

On 2/28/2022 at 10:03 PM, Nuke said:

its bigger than i thought it would be

Give it a month; it will feel perfect.

[Gargamel]

@ARS, Your computer related question has been to the computer thread.     Good luck.

[ARS]

@Gargamel thanks

[Nuke]

back in my system integrator days, we had a contract with a charter school to supply them with machines. thing is they kept coming back completely dead. we discovered that they decided to use a hundred year old historical building as the computer lab. the wiring in that place was not good. i suggested line conditioners. part of a power supply's job is to provide a buffer against brownout conditions. big capacitors in the psu provide that. i strongly suggest over specing your psu in those situations as those higher wattage supplies will give you more capacitance. figure out what you need and tripple it.  a line conditioner will add even more stability, and a ups will add it for longer.  we get a lot of brown outs here, especially when the squirrels take to using the power lines as a highway system or more recently when we had some record breaking snowfall. i have a mining computer plugged into a line conditioner and it seems to handle any short duration power sags quite well. it tends to shut down all the older computers, especially ones with lower speced supplies. my new computer didnt even notice as i bought a 750w so id have the power budget for a 3070 that i never got, and its just plugged into a basic surge suppressor.

[monophonic]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:03 PM, ARS said:

Thanks for the response. Here's my spec:

  Reveal hidden contents

-Processor    : Intel Core i7-3770 @ 3.40Ghz - @ 3.90Ghz
-OS        : Windows 7 64-bit
-RAM        : 16GB

-GPU        : NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750
-HDD        : Barracuda 1TB + Barracuda 500GB
-PSU        : Nero 225 (max power: 500w, pure power: 225w, high range voltage: 170v-240v)

-Stabilizer    : Matsunaga SVC-1000N (output 110v-220v)

I'm still thinking whether I should:

-Increase house voltage to reduce the margin of power fluctuation

-Buy a voltage stabilizer with higher range of power output

-Buy a UPS (should I use UPS and Stabilizer at the same time?)

I would go with what @JoeSchmuckatelli said for starters. By googled numbers your voltage stabilizer should be perfectly fine. However your graphics card alone is capable of exhausting the "pure power" rating (whatever that means) of your PSU and any distortions in the output can really do a number on computer stability. A higher rated PSU would give a reasonable margin here.

I would be extremely wary of increasing house voltage without knowing the quality of wiring you have in your walls. On the same thought if your computer is capable of significantly pulling down the voltage I would be worried about the wires condition. Are you on a national power grid or does your electricity come from a small scale solar or other setup? Is your wall voltage on the 110V or 230V range? What fuse value (amps) do you have for the circuit in the house electric cabinet?

As @StrandedonEarth said a UPS basically functions as a voltage stabilizer too. So don't use another stabilizer with a UPS unless you need one to protect the finer electronics a UPS has. Since your computer didn't just fizzle out when you used it without the stabilizer that shouldn't be an issue.

[tater]

Pulled the trigger on a Mac Studio, though I did not get the lowest end, I didn't go for the M1 Ultra, seemed like overkill. Now I need a display... reading up the thread I am considering the Gigabyte M32U. My iMac 27 is a 27", but bigger would be OK. Regardless 4k, the 5k Apple monitor looks great, but for that hefty price tag it should have a higher refresh rate at the very least (looks nice, though).

 

[ARS]

On 3/14/2022 at 2:48 PM, monophonic said:

I would go with what @JoeSchmuckatelli said for starters. By googled numbers your voltage stabilizer should be perfectly fine. However your graphics card alone is capable of exhausting the "pure power" rating (whatever that means) of your PSU and any distortions in the output can really do a number on computer stability. A higher rated PSU would give a reasonable margin here.

I would be extremely wary of increasing house voltage without knowing the quality of wiring you have in your walls. On the same thought if your computer is capable of significantly pulling down the voltage I would be worried about the wires condition. Are you on a national power grid or does your electricity come from a small scale solar or other setup? Is your wall voltage on the 110V or 230V range? What fuse value (amps) do you have for the circuit in the house electric cabinet?

As @StrandedonEarth said a UPS basically functions as a voltage stabilizer too. So don't use another stabilizer with a UPS unless you need one to protect the finer electronics a UPS has. Since your computer didn't just fizzle out when you used it without the stabilizer that shouldn't be an issue.

I am planning to buy a new PSU, should 650w enough? Or should I go higher?

[monophonic]

10 hours ago, ARS said:

I am planning to buy a new PSU, should 650w enough? Or should I go higher?

I am going to have to refer to @JoeSchmuckatelli here - he linked you to a 750W offering so I would start from there. The key is the amount of clean power the PSU can output - an expensive quality 750W PSU might outperform a cheap-o 1000W unit. But I haven't built a computer in this millennium so I don't have any relevant experience to help you further.

[ARS]

Just now, monophonic said:

I am going to have to refer to @JoeSchmuckatelli here - he linked you to a 750W offering so I would start from there. The key is the amount of clean power the PSU can output - an expensive quality 750W PSU might outperform a cheap-o 1000W unit. But I haven't built a computer in this millennium so I don't have any relevant experience to help you further.

Alright, thanks for the answer

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 hours ago, monophonic said:

I am going to have to refer to @JoeSchmuckatelli here - he linked you to a 750W offering so I would start from there. The key is the amount of clean power the PSU can output - an expensive quality 750W PSU might outperform a cheap-o 1000W unit. But I haven't built a computer in this millennium so I don't have any relevant experience to help you further.

 

2 hours ago, ARS said:

Alright, thanks for the answer

@ARS - I'll give you a little background to explain where I am coming from to help you evaluate my advice and opinions.

I've been building my own systems since the mid '90s.  I'm competent, but hardly an expert.  My focus has always been a high quality, rock solid, competitive gaming machine that is cost effective, rather than chasing bleeding edge performance.  The core of my strategy is to have a tick-tock upgrade cycle where I alternatively skip generations of CPU and GPU.  Year 1 I bought a really good computer.  Year 2 I installed one of the new-fangled discrete GPU cards (skipped the NEW - Wow CPU) .  Year 3 I upgraded CPU (skipped the NEW-WOW GPU).  Year 4 and GPU tech had greatly improved so I got a new GPU.  etc. Etc.

Every decision was made to maximize the impact for the dollars spent - and it was driven by where the improvements really were and how they'd affect the games I play.  A LOT of generations, despite the ad campaigns, were really minor tweaks and iterations - so that buying the NEW-WOW wasn't really a value (a few frames here or a new shader there).  Fundamentally I changed my system when architecture changed and the improvements from the Gen I had and the new architecture were significant. Lately its been 2 and sometimes 3 generations per cycle, because real improvement from Gen to 'Gen' in how the system performs in games has been actually minimal, presuming I bought a good product each time.* (When I sensed the system was finally getting slow enough to be noticed - only then was it time for an upgrade... Benchmarks and artificial frame number hype be damned!) This let me spend money in what for me was a reasonable manner and kept my wife happy with my hobby! 

CPU upgrades, btw, often came with Mobo and RAM upgrades due to the architecture changes.  (This is not a cheap hobby!). Along the way came other things like switching first to a SSD and then NVMe, etc. 

What you don't see in there is me buying a new monitor, or PSU or fans or a case or a whole lot of stuff that you can spend money on. 

The only thing that bit me in the butt was ignoring the PSU. That created an expensive problem for me several years ago. I had a great GPU and a good CPU and Mobo and suddenly my system fell apart. The underpowered PSU destroyed my efficiency.  It also ate a pretty darn good Mobo and CPU. It took way too long to figure out the problem ( working with the truly knowledgeable people over at [H] ardforums.  Highly recommend you join and ask questions, especially if you are interested in system building as a hobby) 

The PSU in my system now is a 850 watt Corsair. Like the 750 I linked to above.  Having overhead in the PSU is now a priority for me - and also means that I don't have to upgrade it very often.  Computer components have gotten power hungry and overhead in the PSU protects the expensive components from overheating, voltage spikes and all the other electrical shenanigans that you don't want to affect your expensive equipment.  Similarly, my UPS protects me from the vagaries of the power grid. 

All of that is to say that sometimes it pays to spend money smartly on the non-sexy stuff that doesn't get the hype and performance videos we are all subject to.  So if you really are thinking about this as a hobby, ask whether it's better to by a $60 500w now and another higher watt in 1-2 years, or $80 for a 750 which should give you several years, or go whole hawg. 

The caveat of my advice is this: I'm not an expert.  There are people who have the inclination to run the numbers and figure out exactly whether a 650 is good enough for you or whether you need/want more.  I'm more of a 'gist' guy. 

 

 

GL and have fun! 

 

 

 

*.    (Notable exception was last year when I bought a 3070 and a new Ryzen CPU - because both of the new architectures were notable upgrades over the aging system I'd been running) 

Edit - oh, one last thing! Buying one of the 'name brand' units (like Corsair) comes with QOL features like easy cable management and options for multiple connections.  I really like the Corsair way better than the first cheap 500w I bought back when I was recovering from my underpowered mistake! 

[ARS]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:32 PM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

 

@ARS - I'll give you a little background to explain where I am coming from to help you evaluate ...

I see, thanks for your advice. I'm planning to buy a new PSU at the end of March. Hopefully it would solve my problem

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Hey - who's got a UPS they like? 

 

We just went through a major wind storm over several hours full of multiple power surges and mine just capped out   (yeah yeah, I know... Should have turned everything off...) 

 

Looking for either something in the last 3 years or highly reliable brands. 

 

TIA 

[TheSaint]

On 3/30/2022 at 8:31 PM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Hey - who's got a UPS they like? 

 

We just went through a major wind storm over several hours full of multiple power surges and mine just capped out   (yeah yeah, I know... Should have turned everything off...) 

 

Looking for either something in the last 3 years or highly reliable brands. 

 

TIA 

Why not APC?

[darthgently]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:31 PM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Hey - who's got a UPS they like? 

 

We just went through a major wind storm over several hours full of multiple power surges and mine just capped out   (yeah yeah, I know... Should have turned everything off...) 

 

Looking for either something in the last 3 years or highly reliable brands. 

 

TIA 

I'm a big proponent of an automobile 12v inverter hooked to 2 deep cycle golf cart batteries with a mains powered battery charger hooked to them.  Most of my computer stuff uses mobile power supplies that run directly off the 12v of the batteries in parallel.  The stuff that doesn't uses the inverter.  But I'm on a boat.  Still, after running for several hours with no mains power as if nothing is different has me addicted and I'd do the same if I moved into a house at this point

[linuxgurugamer]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:31 PM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Hey - who's got a UPS they like? 

 

We just went through a major wind storm over several hours full of multiple power surges and mine just capped out   (yeah yeah, I know... Should have turned everything off...) 

 

Looking for either something in the last 3 years or highly reliable brands. 

 

TIA 

APC  is good, and some of the can have external batteries added

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 hours ago, darthgently said:

I'm a big proponent of an automobile 12v inverter hooked to 2 deep cycle golf cart batteries with a mains powered battery charger hooked to them.  Most of my computer stuff uses mobile power supplies that run directly off the 12v of the batteries in parallel.  The stuff that doesn't uses the inverter.  But I'm on a boat.  Still, after running for several hours with no mains power as if nothing is different has me addicted and I'd do the same if I moved into a house at this point

Sounds to me like you're a 'smart guy' who gets that kind of stuff.  I'm more of a wire jockey.  Plus, if I did that my wife would give me 'that look'... and so... probably need something streamlined.

 

I'll check out APC.  (Much as I like tinkering - I'm admittedly a plug-n-play addict)

[Nuke]

18 hours ago, darthgently said:

I'm a big proponent of an automobile 12v inverter hooked to 2 deep cycle golf cart batteries with a mains powered battery charger hooked to them.  Most of my computer stuff uses mobile power supplies that run directly off the 12v of the batteries in parallel.  The stuff that doesn't uses the inverter.  But I'm on a boat.  Still, after running for several hours with no mains power as if nothing is different has me addicted and I'd do the same if I moved into a house at this point

a couple forklift batteries and you can have backup power for your house. my sister's house was set up like that. the genny only came on four hours a day but there was enough power for some lights a couple gaming rigs, a tv and stereo. you couldnt use the microwave or any heaters, but the house had a wood stove. it had this quirk where you had to turn things off to flush the toilet because the pumps would brownout the system. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Nuke

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

On 4/8/2022 at 1:06 PM, Nuke said:

turn things off to flush the toilet because the pumps would brownout the system

That can be read in a couple of unpleasant ways...

 

[Nuke]

43 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

That can be read in a couple of unpleasant ways...

 

things get messy when the electric system meets the plumbing.

i should have mentioned they had their own well. you would have to pump ground water through a filter stack and into a holding tank, which is pressurized with an air bladder. the whole system is a single unit and automatically turns the pump on when the holding tank is low. flushing is enough to set the system off.  needless to say this requires a pretty powerful pump that would easily overload the inverter if too much stuff was running, the whole thing would have ran better with a higher spec inverter.

[Geonovast]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:31 PM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Hey - who's got a UPS they like? 

I've got UPSs littered around the house, of various brands.  I would say I'm most happy with the APC units... but only the higher end ones.  The cheaper ones have this nasty, terrible thing where you can't silence the alarm (although this applies to every cheap UPS I've had, regardless of brand)

Plus they're cat approved.

Don't cheap out on a UPS, especially if it's on a high wattage machine, like a computer meant for gaming.  The one pictured is a 900 Watt APC BX1500M.  Lets you see line voltage, watts being used, run time at current usage, and best of all... has a dedicated button to silence the alarm.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, Geonovast said:

Don't cheap out on a UPS

Thanks - just the kind of info I was looking for!

[TheSaint]

On 4/9/2022 at 12:18 PM, Nuke said:

things get messy when the electric system meets the plumbing.

 

 

[Nuke]

so the os on my old rig (the one i replaced mere months ago) went completely tango uniform. i figure windows 10 pushed a bad update and broke my ethernet and bluetooth drivers. after spending some time trying to manually fix the drivers. i did some googling and some people were claiming that the probem may actually be with my nvidia drivers. so i uninstalled those. guess what, wouldn't let me reinstall them after than line of troubleshooting reached its terminus. so i decided it was im my best interest to dig up a very ancient pc repair strategy from my system integrator days. nuke the whole site from orbit. this allowed me to test out a couple of oses, that is after spending 6 hours trying to get my pxe boot solution working again. it all came down to windows firewall, which i didnt even know was enabled. this cost me hours and a dozen trips up and down the stairs.  derp.

theres much a hubub about windows 10 ltsc, a very stripped down enterprise edition that is designed for running less dynamic installations (like kiosks and signage). its popular because its a bare bones system that doesn't install a bunch of crap you will never need or even want to use (my policy is to use as little of the os as possible, i prefer to use 3rd party software as the computer gods intended). i downloaded an evaluation iso. the full version is actually very hard to get, they dont sell it to consumers, only volume licensees. you can (legally) obtain them through a third party however.  rather than jump through those hoops, i just opted to try the eval. i actually kind of liked it, nothing in the start menu, no default apps. runs very fast.  i think im going to try to obtain a key for that one, which usually entails throwing some money at a shady gray market website. 

i wanted to throw in a linux distro or two, but opted against it, as it was already late at this point, and evaluating linux usually takes more than a couple hours. i decided id evaluate windows 11 pro instead. seems all the horror stories are just fake news. os installed fine. i did not need an ms account, drive encryption was not enabled by default. everything i was concerned about did not come to pass. maybe that comes from home users who dont know anything. its got good bones at least, much of my dislike of it is cosmetic. its plastered with icons of cloud services and social media outlets that i don't use. one of the first tings i did was to remove them from the menus, idk if that uninstalls them or not, but im gonna look into it. the system must be purged of every scrap of stuff i will never use.

the start menu for one, my tastes are more leaning towards win2k, though i found 7 to have a very usable menu. from 8-10 ive been using classic/open shell. it kind of works with 11 but its buggy (fortunately its still being developed so it might work out in the long run). i like just having a big list of all my stuff rather than having to search for everything. its still got schizophrenic options menus. the phone style settings still intermingles with classic control panel of yore, with some overlap and some settings exclusive to one or the other.  i really think the pro versions need to be computer like and the home versions be phone like, or be able to switch between the two like installing a new de in linux. or at least make a decision about what interface to use. seems like it was in transition back in 10, but for some reason didn't follow through in 11. using both simultaneously just seems confusing. i only used it for 2 or 3 hours and i still had to dip into regedit once and the command line twice. good guis were always one of the big selling points to windows, and if they cant deliver on that, then id be better off on linux. that said i dont think im going to take the plunge one way or the other on my daily driver just yet. im still on a fresh install of 10 that hasn't been mangled too much just yet.