Kerbal Space Program 2 Release into Early Access Feb 24th

[modus]

6 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

Estimated Arrival :EA or ETA, Estimated Time Arrival..

Yeah I meant EA as in Early Access

7 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

they gave us a road map with zero EA on each section. so i can guess its year(s) away from 1.0 unless proven/said otherwise

But still, this was my point.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

I'm arguing that it SHOULD. I remember when games never got above 1.03. They were FUN.

Nostalgia is not a good way of writing arguments.

I rember never being able to finish PS1 games due to save-breaking bugs (especially gems in Spyro falling off cliffs) and I remember what independent and small games where in the age before the ability of updating them over time.

If it wasn't for EA and updates over time we wouldn't be here talking on this forum because KSP would have been one of those 2d flash games that never went past that.

 

8 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

As it happens, I left them a very nasty note on their bug tracker asking them why the "heck" there were now blue LED lights and robots in my pastoral beaver game. All they needed to do was provide some good colony management tools, and it would have been perfect, but they decided to add marginally useful food items and ROBOTS. We still don't have adequate colony management tools. I quit playing Timberborn too.

Are you telling me that your absolute "No early access games" is already not that absolute?

If you already buy some early access games, why are we even arguing?

 

8 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

Oh no, I have to go outside more. Tragic. I might re-install Ghost Recon 1,

That has nothing to do with the fact that EA isn't a good parameter to judge games by.

When you buy a new game you have the same chance of ending up with a messy unfinished product, EA or not. The number of times you take your dog out for a walk hardly change anything here.

 

8 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

or just keep playing Factorio.

BTW without EA you wouldn't have Factorio either.

 

8 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

DSP is one of those games seems more fun to watch than it is to play. Especially since they added the proliferator mechanic. I really want to play ONI because the gas mixing and thermodynamics are fascinating, but I understand it's really buggy and non-performant.

So what it is? EA games suddenly started being terrible 6 months to 2 years ago? Are you sure it's not nostalgia speaking? Because sure it sounds a lot like it.

 

8 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

It doesn't really matter because I have the wiki memorized, a base theory-crafted and drawn on paper, and all the math done--Purchasing the game and building it would be redundant.

Replace the random events with dices and this is applicable to every management / strategy game released after Transport Tycoon in '94. Throw in a D&D rule-book  at it and you can add every RPG game too.

[Anth]

1 hour ago, TLTay said:

They broke the news of what is essentially a HUGE delay with  a video telling fans "we need your input." No you don't. You need our money. They don't need input, they need to buy time because it's nowhere near done, otherwise these features would be in the first "release" of early access.

T2/DP/Intercept games need our money. Absolutely. You got it in one. If there was no money in making KSP2 then it would never have been made.

The KSP community want a high quality KSP2. Nate Simpson said he can deliver but that puts a lot of pressure on him and the Intercept Games employees.

Early Access means that KSP2 doesn't need to be perfect on its first release.

This is the right choice regardless of if money is the main reason for the Early Access or not.

 

[Quoniam Kerman]

If we base ourselves on KSP1 updates speed, give three or four months per update (without counting bug fixes and patches). So Let's say March 1st for the the game release (even if it is 6 days earlier but it will be easier to calculate), that would lead us to 1st June or July for Stage 1, scoence gathering, between 1st of September and 1st of November for Stage 2, Colonies and and thus early 2024 for Stage 3, interstellar capability. If anything, the game should be feature announced worthy by late 24.

Of course, it depends on the release smoothness and eventual game breaking bugs that would ask for complete rewriting of core features and bring delays... I guess that the devs are already four or five updates in advance in their own builds but waiting on that gigantic beta test to make sure they are going the right way. They don't have that much time to play themselves, so more feedback equals more data to work with and the team is much bigger than the first game dev team, not to mentioned more experienced and also benefit from the experience of some modders, in theory, they should be more reactive and have anticipated many problems. On the other hand  the bigger scale of the game will bring more challenges to solve for them.

 

They need the money but the editor might also have pushed the delays the more they can and might not want to delay more to avoid players going elsewhere thinking the game will never release and become a vaporware. At least, the EA stage means that the game is still up and getting support from the company, and not cancelled, that's a huge achievement in itself, I had many friends telling me that KSP2 was never gonna release and was gonna become a vaporware that much that they weren't even interested... Would you still be interested in the game if the release date was pushed to 'undetermined' or release in 2026???

Edited October 22, 2022 by Quoniam Kerman

[mattinoz]

17 hours ago, tater said:

No Mac version, so I'll never buy this, even though I also have a PC.

 

Yes, A bit slack to wait this long to tell that part of the community they are 3rd class in the eyes of the team.  
 

they should have ripped the bandage off much earlier. 

[Anth]

8 minutes ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

If we base ourselves on KSP1 updates speed, give three or four months per update (without counting bug fixes and patches). So Let's say March 1st for the the game release (even if it is 6 days earlier but it will be easier to calculate), that would lead us to 1st June or July for Stage 1, scoence gathering, between 1st of September and 1st of November for Stage 2, Colonies and and thus early 2024 for Stage 3, interstellar capability. If anything, the game should be feature announced worthy by late 24.

Of course, it depends on the release smoothness and eventual game breaking bugs that would ask for complete rewriting of core features and bring delays... I guess that the devs are already four or five updates in advance in their own builds but waiting on that gigantic beta test to make sure they are going the right way. They don't have that much time to play themselves, so more feedback equals more data to work with and the team is much bigger than the first game dev team, not to mentioned more experienced and also benefit from the experience of some modders, in theory, they should be more reactive and have anticipated many problems. On the other hand  the bigger scale of the game will bring more challenges to solve for them.

Hopefully how KSP1 development was handled wont be how KSP2 development is handled so we wont have the same issues. Also remember that the features in the roadmap aren't being developed from scratch. I think they have them working in some way already

Edited October 22, 2022 by Anth12

[pandaman]

I was a little surprised and disappointed at the EA announcement.   But now, if my understanding is correct, it seems to make sense.

Unlike KSP1,  KSP2 apparently already has working versions and/or very solid foundations for the 'Road  Map' features   So it's not like they'll get the basic game out of the door, then try working out how to add all the extra stuff.  This does feel much more like a planned 'staged release to iron out wrinkles' than a rush to make a deadline (though that could obviously be a factor).

It is unfortunate that Linux etc are unavailable initially, although it won't affect me, it will for a lot of key contributors on these  forums.

[Anth]

19 hours ago, Intercept Games said:

Most importantly, we want players to play for thousands of hours. What will keep you playing? During Early Access there will be a form on the KSP website to submit detailed feedback. It can also be accessed from the game’s launcher and the Steam page.

Will there still be a bug tracker?

To play for thousands of hours? Robotics.

[The Aziz]

1 hour ago, pandaman said:

This does feel much more like a planned 'staged release to iron out wrinkles' than a rush to make a deadline (though that could obviously be a factor).

I think it's both. The game has to start making profit after over 5 years, the big deals in T2 office probably wouldn't agree for another delay, so Intercept came up with what we're having. Something playable, with (probably) most planned features just around the corner, only requiring some polishing.

I mean, Nate once said there's a lot they were not showing, but I say there's a lot they've shown us that doesn't make it to the 24th. Nobody can tell me they just scrapped all the planets outside Kerbol, all the resource extractors, energy generators, the interstellar tech.. it's still there. I don't know if all that is in need of fine tuning, or what, but it can't be too far behind.

[RealKerbal3x]

16 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

I think it's both. The game has to start making profit after over 5 years, the big deals in T2 office probably wouldn't agree for another delay, so Intercept came up with what we're having. Something playable, with (probably) most planned features just around the corner, only requiring some polishing.

I mean, Nate once said there's a lot they were not showing, but I say there's a lot they've shown us that doesn't make it to the 24th. Nobody can tell me they just scrapped all the planets outside Kerbol, all the resource extractors, energy generators, the interstellar tech.. it's still there. I don't know if all that is in need of fine tuning, or what, but it can't be too far behind.

I have to agree. It doesn't look like this is going to be the sort of 'early access' that we saw with KSP1, where new features were more or less implemented as they were figured out. Judging from what they've been showing since the initial announcement in 2019, everything they have planned on the roadmap has actually got somewhere from a technical standpoint. Heck, looking back at what Nate said in some of those early interviews, they might even have had multiplayer prototypes back then.

Hence why I'm cautiously optimistic that the early access period isn't going to be another four-year debacle. If nothing else, it'll give us time to transition nicely from KSP1 to KSP2, while still giving us a chance to get to grips with the new game in the meantime.

[Bombaatu]

12 hours ago, DwightLee said:

Multiplayer in KSP2 had never ( for me ) been a drive, it will be an interesting side thing I do occasionally but certainly will never be the primary game. I would be just as excited about KSP2 if it were dropped. I am only saying this so people understand that it is not the end all for everyone. 

*ding-ding-ding*

I personally don't like multi-player games. Even the few times I've played MMOs, I usually did so solo. 

If MP is finally in KSP2, then ok. If not, I couldn't care less.

[The Aziz]

40 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

If nothing else, it'll give us time to transition nicely from KSP1 to KSP2, while still giving us a chance to get to grips with the new game in the meantime

Totally. I may as well just abandon my "current" space program (which I didn't play for few months now but nevermind that) where my target is to plant a flag on every solid body (Jool system, I'm looking at you) and perhaps return, and just restart it in the sequel. Though, a huge part of the success of my return from Moho was the ability to mine and convert ore into fuel for the return vehicle. Something we're most likely not having in February. We shall see.

[Kerbart]

I love the Early Access plan. One of the things I really enjoyed about KSP (1) was the Early Access program. Every few months a new version, with hype, twitch streams with tons of audience, a splurge of videos showingnew content. There is some great content being generated right now, but nothing beats the excitement of streams and video that uncover new game territory.It’s going to be February 24 six times next year!

The one positive difference with the original is the roadmap (even if we didn’t know what’s on it) — unlike KSP 1 development where gameplay was bolted on to parts that were bolted on themselves, the core engine and game mechanics have been designed from the ground up with that functionality in mind. And for those who wonder why feature X before Y (although Nate already touched on that), consider the possibility that the dev team actually thought this over.

Finally “after all that time we only get a bare EA version for starters,” it will be a lot more complete than the 0.18 version a lot of us started with. Remember?

• Just an (ugly) VAB & launch pad, no real  space complex
• An “souposphere” that allowed reentries of 90° entry angles at 3000m/s, and a soft touchdown using chutes only
• Speaking of atmosphere: no fairings. Not that they were needed. And pancake designs were your best bet for stable launch configurations
• Kerbals had to EVA to move from one part to another
• Rover wheels were bad
• Contracts started life as a mod, and science was implemented as an afterthought. They were great improvements  but no one really likes the game mechanics, which are limited as it’s “bolted on”

It’s easy to continue the list. The point is, even if there’s no Science in the first release system, game mechanics have been designed with it in mind. It won’t be limited by a design that started life as a rudimentary 2D simulator. A lot of the game will be there, we just don’t see it, because the core mechanics need some hardcore testing by us. And any fixes that are needed for exotic issues we come up with should not be impossible — or make  impossible — planned features.

[Clayel]

Is it possible you could add a button to each fuel tank, cargo bay, wing, and airplane cockpit that adds a heatshield on one side of the part? (with the added weight of the ablator ofc) This would make builds like the Space Shuttle and Starship much easier to reproduce.

[poopslayer78]

I noticed on the equivalent roadmap post on reddit has slightly different information.  This appears to be an official post but who knows...

Anyway, I noticed that telescopes will be part of the interstellar milestone!

Quote

Interstellar:

• New Star System - Debdeb

• Interstellar Travel

  • Map updates

  • Trip Planner updates

• Interstellar parts

• Multi fuel engines

• Planetary Discovery/Space Telescopes

• Additional tutorials

Does this mean that the interstellar planets will initially be hidden from map view and require some sort of precursory missions to slowly build up the map?!?  This sounds awesome!  When I first played through KSP1, having the full map available from the start took some of the fun of exploration away.  I love it when game content is unlocked slowly over time and requires mastery of previous mechanics first.

[Meecrob]

$50 USD? I get that Private Division is antsy for some ROI, but you guys might wanna really emphasize what is gonna be included, because on the surface, this looks like KSP1 v0.21. I mean you guys are promoting multiple launch pads so you can launch with your friends in multiplayer...but thats not being added til later...so why tell us? Focus on why KSP2 is worth $50 at its CURRENT state, please.

 

Edit:  Please don't tell me part of my $50 goes into being an unpaid EA user who gets to give feedback.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Meecrob

[DeadJohn]

10 hours ago, Serenity said:

...HUGE delays to bring the game on consoles...

I'm a PC gamer who thinks less attention to console is a good thing. Games that focus on console often end up with compromised PC interfaces.

[The Aziz]

52 minutes ago, poopslayer78 said:

Does this mean that the interstellar planets will initially be hidden from map view and require some sort of precursory missions to slowly build up the map?!? 

Yes, confirmed a long time ago.

[TLTay]

7 hours ago, Anth12 said:

T2/DP/Intercept games need our money. Absolutely. You got it in one. If there was no money in making KSP2 then it would never have been made.

The KSP community want a high quality KSP2. Nate Simpson said he can deliver but that puts a lot of pressure on him and the Intercept Games employees.

Early Access means that KSP2 doesn't need to be perfect on its first release.

This is the right choice regardless of if money is the main reason for the Early Access or not.

 

I get it, money matters. 

I don't want to spend hours (and nearly full new game price) playing a buggy, feature barren Kerbal game just to aid development. I gleefully did that with Kerbal 1 because the team needed both the money and help. 

They couldn't even put a preview of any of the roadmap items in the video (big red flag) and have mentioned nearly nil about major parts of the game. Instead we get a video featuring procedural wings fins and... paint!?!? Are you serious, you already showed us this in previous videos! It's a giant red flag that there ISN'T ANYTHING ELSE TO SHOW.

Look, I love Kerbal IP. I legit do. But if they put this "game" to EA as a karckenified hollow shell and it gets rejected by reviewers, that could really damage its chances of survival over time.

Edited October 22, 2022 by TLTay

[RealKerbal3x]

25 minutes ago, TLTay said:

I don't want to spend hours (and nearly full new game price) playing a buggy, feature barren Kerbal game just to aid development.

Then don't. Really, it's that simple.

If the early access stage goes as planned, then you can always buy it later when it's reached a full release state. If it flops and gets cancelled, you've literally lost nothing, and KSP1 hasn't gone anywhere.

25 minutes ago, TLTay said:

They couldn't even put a preview of any of the roadmap items in the video (big red flag) and have mentioned nearly nil about major parts of the game. Instead we get a video featuring procedural wings fins and... paint!?!? Are you serious, you already showed us this in previous videos! It's a giant red flag that there ISN'T ANYTHING ELSE TO SHOW.

The roadmap is more or less bridging the gap between KSP1's feature set and KSP2's - everything on there has pretty much been the selling point of the game since it was announced in 2019.  Every major element of that roadmap has been talked about or at least displayed in a show and tell or feature video, so unless they've been blatantly lying to everyone and all the gameplay footage is just 3D animations, a significant amount of the work on those systems has already been done. It's not like they're going to be throwing away all of that work and then bolting new stuff on as they figure out how to do it (as we saw with KSP1).

Edited October 22, 2022 by RealKerbal3x

[Serenity]

1 hour ago, DeadJohn said:

I'm a PC gamer who thinks less attention to console is a good thing. Games that focus on console often end up with compromised PC interfaces.

You misunderstood.

The game will have to come on consoles and that will mean taking an unstable/kinda stable version of the game and spending a huge amount of development time and resources

to make it acceptable with the strict console rules.

It will lead to remove or stalling features and updates and every single major update will take weeks or months of work to make it valid for a console update release.

[EBOSHI]

The Japanese on the KSP2 official site is not fluent, and there are mistranslations. It should be translated from scratch.
If the Japanese in the game were of this quality, Japanese players would not be satisfied at all.

[TLTay]

15 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Then don't. Really, it's that simple.

If the early access stage goes as planned, then you can always buy it later when it's reached a full release state. If it flops and gets cancelled, you've literally lost nothing, and KSP1 hasn't gone anywhere.

The roadmap is more or less bridging the gap between KSP1's feature set and KSP2's - everything on there has pretty much been the selling point of the game since it was announced in 2019.  Every element of that roadmap has been talked about or at least displayed in a show and tell or feature video, so unless they've been blatantly lying to everyone and all the gameplay footage is just 3D animations, a significant amount of the work on those systems has already been done. It's not like they're going to be throwing away all of that work and then bolting new stuff on as they figure out how to do it (as we saw with KSP1).

My point is, we've seen ALL they had to show on it or they'd have put new stuff in the delay announcement video instead of... paint. 

Fans have a valid reason to be upset after being basically told "no" to EA for literally years of delays, that the game would come out when it was done. Then  we were given a launch window in a Nate video, then they tease us with Jeb plushy ticktoks... just to tell us: "LOL LMAO guys, it's full price for EA and none of the stuff we promised will be in there yet, but soon! We're just not sure we can say when."

Look, if you want to go down to the dealership for a %10 off sale to buy a new car with no doors, windows, or seats just for them to be installed later... enjoy! 

I'll let the youtubers buy it (or get it free from the marketing budget)  and when it's done enough to call it game, I'll think about it.

This would've just been very bad news if the price was 20 bucks, but at 50 it's pretty insulting.

Edited October 22, 2022 by TLTay

[The Aziz]

21 minutes ago, EBOSHI said:

The Japanese on the KSP2 official site is not fluent, and there are mistranslations. It should be translated from scratch.
If the Japanese in the game were of this quality, Japanese players would not be satisfied at all.

Glad you pointed it out.

I checked the Polish version and oh gods. Tons of typos mostly with Polish letters, poor translations of many phrases. I hope localization team for the game knows what they're doing because what's on the site feels like it was made using google translate.

[LHACK4142]

It's really exciting to have a release date, but this is basically another delay. When will we get the KSP2 promised in 2020? My guess is starting to become "never".