Honestly Disappointed....

[Devblaze]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to share my thoughts on Kerbal Space Program 2. While some players and critics have praised its improved graphics, user interface, multiplayer mode, and interstellar features, others have criticized its bugs, glitches, performance issues, and lack of innovation compared to the original game. In my opinion, while KSP2 looks like a visual improvement, it has not met my expectations. I got into Kerbal Space Program when KSP2 was announced, and I had fun with it after having installed many mods to make it a more polished experience (like the tutorial fixing mod.) However, I firmly believe it will be a while before the studio fulfills their promises, and I feel like they have overpromised and underdelivered.

It's important to keep in mind that game development can be a complex and challenging process, but the game's problematic development history suggests that there may be more difficulties ahead. The developers have promised to update the game regularly with new content and fixes. I hope that they will be able to deliver on their promises and address some of the issues that the players have raised. In the meantime, I plan to continue playing the original game and keep an eye on KSP2 updates.

What are your thoughts on Kerbal Space Program 2 so far?

Let's discuss!

Edited February 23, 2023 by Devblaze
Formatted appropriately.

[HebaruSan]

I feel a need to get this observation off my chest somewhere, so I'm picking this thread:

In the video before his official embargoed KSP2 preview, Scott Manley mentioned going to the big event with all the other space Youtubers. He wasn't able to say anything specific at that time, but I was alarmed by one thing I didn't hear: enthusiasm. It did not sound like he saw anything that inspired or excited him, and it did not sound like he was looking forward to telling us about it. A gamer who loves aerospace so much that he's getting his pilot's license in his spare time, who saw the potential in KSP1 early on and made many series using it to have fun and teach, was reacting to this highly anticipated release with "meh". That's when I knew there were going to be problems.

[snkiz]

8 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

A gamer who loves aerospace so much that he's getting his pilot's license in his spare time, who saw the potential in KSP1 early on and made many series using it to have fun and teach, was reacting to this highly anticipated release with "meh".

A lot of the OG KSP youtubers have kinda moved on. Scott doesn't do much with the game on his YT channel anymore, Marcus has barely mentioned it, he's doing space news now. The NASAspaceflight guys don't really have the time, even though they all have the passion. A number of them started with KSP. Shadowzone, still puts out a video now and then, and has stayed up with ksp news. But I get the impression that IRL is taking more of his time. 

When Scott was able to talk about the ESA event. He was pretty clear. feature wise, the EA is a step back from the original game. He flat out did not recommend it to anyone who isn't interested in being a beta tester. I'm not sure that's what he wants to do either. I wouldn't expect to see another series from him any time soon, if at all. If he does do it again I believe he'd want to cover some new ground. Form a story point of view there just isn't any meat there yet for that.

[HebaruSan]

26 minutes ago, snkiz said:

A lot of the OG KSP youtubers have kinda moved on. Scott doesn't do much with the game on his YT channel anymore, Marcus has barely mentioned it, he's doing space news now. The NASAspaceflight guys don't really have the time, even though they all have the passion.

Yup, and there almost certainly could be a game experience compelling enough to bring them all back...

26 minutes ago, snkiz said:

If he does do it again I believe he'd want to cover some new ground.

Sadly, it seems that experience is still multiple years off in the future, in a best case scenario.

[modus]

25 minutes ago, snkiz said:

But I get the impression that IRL is taking more of his time. 

That, and maybe he -and others- are just a bit bored by ksp1, doing the same things over and over.

45 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

In the video before his official embargoed KSP2 preview, Scott Manley mentioned going to the big event with all the other space Youtubers. He wasn't able to say anything specific at that time, but I was alarmed by one thing I didn't hear: enthusiasm. It did not sound like he saw anything that inspired or excited him, and it did not sound like he was looking forward to telling us about it. A gamer who loves aerospace so much that he's getting his pilot's license in his spare time, who saw the potential in KSP1 early on and made many series using it to have fun and teach, was reacting to this highly anticipated release with "meh". That's when I knew there were going to be problems.

Yeah I noticed it too. His video was also a lot shorter than the others, but that ciuld have been because he lost a lot of his footage, as pointed out in the thread on his video.

But yeah, it was like "I'm glad to be at esa for lots of space stuff, and oh btw I got to play ksp2". His conclusion was also very different than, for instance, everyday astronaut.

So I also doubt if we'll get videos from him playing ksp2. I think he has just moved on from gaming, otherwise he'd play it, no matter what condition it was in at ea.

[snkiz]

1 minute ago, modus said:

So I also doubt if we'll get videos from him playing ksp2. I think he has just moved on from gaming, otherwise he'd play it, no matter what condition it was in at ea.

He still has a twitch channel he plays on. I'm sure he's gonna play around with it. But a full on story? That's gonna take more than the Kerbol system to bring them back.

[K^2]

23 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Yup, and there almost certainly could be a game experience compelling enough to bring them all back...

Yes, but realistically, I think we're going to see a new generation of KSP Youtubers and streamers.

[Ekerci]

I feel the same as you. I wasn't expecting huge things from KSP2 but playable game. For my understanding, EA, in current stage, is a tester game. They didn't want to pay for testers and they need money. Also, they delayed the game don't know how many years so they couldn't delay more and here we are.

I wrote before, I will buy the game day 1 but I may not play it. There is nothing i like the game about in this stage. I'm not a graph guy but i wanted to see what's new, I only saw that interface is updated.

[pandaman]

What I took from Scott Manley in particular, and most of the others was essentially "It's good and has loads of potential, but it's not anything like finished, so just don't expect it to be."  Them getting visibility over excited could raise hopes and expectations too much when it's just not at that point yet.

I think they possibly shared many of our expectations that even the first installment of EA would  be just a little bit more complete (not polished) than it seems to be.

I'm still looking forward to it though...

[K^2]

9 minutes ago, Ekerci said:

They didn't want to pay for testers and they need money.

You're only about half right on this. While you can get useful feedback from an early release that helps deliver a better experience on the full release, this does not replace dedicated testers, nor even reduce the numbers you need. QA department is staffed with professionals who know how to not only look for problems, but look for regressions, reproduction steps, do some early triage in terms of how severe the problems are, and so on. Yeah, your entry level QA employees might not have any prior experience with this, but people who manage them directly most certainly do, and it's not something you can outsource to fans.

Secondly, yes, an early access is a way to generate revenue. Though, it's not so much for the sake of actually getting the money to finish the game - as that's going to be provided by the Private Division anyways, but rather to show the actual interest in the game and help the publisher to determine what sort of marketing to do, whether to get started on future DLC content and so on. This isn't really for paying for the remaining development - that's covered.

Think of it as a game on Kickstarter. Have you seen some mid-size games that have a funding goal of $100k? Do you really think any game these days costs that much to make? Cheap mobile games start at about $2-3M budgets. A lot of the Kickstarter games with $100k funding have $10M+ from publishers attached to it if the goals are met. That 1% of the budget isn't covering any of the production costs. It's just there to make sure people actually want to buy the game.

We're in a similar territory with the KSP2 Early Access. Intercept gets to see where people who aren't professional testers are struggling, whether due to bugs or due to some UI choices that seemed like a good idea, but aren't actually working out. Private Division gets to see how many people want to buy the game, not just hyped for it, but actually prepared to spend the money on it, and can plan accordingly. We get to try out the game early and also get it for a bit less than what it will cost when fully released. So long as everyone understands what this is about and has the right expectations, this is mutually beneficial to everyone involved, including people who are going to skip on the early access and wait for the full release. The only way this becomes a problem is if people expect something that this isn't, like a polished experience with good performance. If that's what you want, wait a few months.

[panzer1b]

For me the biggest issue seems to be the performance (which i seriously hope will be fixed in future versions).  I can fully understand the game now working properly on my current POS GPU (GTX 1050 TI, like the 3rd best card you could get at that time), and the CPU if enuff, but if the streamer build is anywhere near accurate then why would a sub 200 part rocket lag badly enough going thru atmo (at least until boosters are dumped) to slow the game to like sub 20 FPS and slow down from realtime rendering?  Yes KSP1 is old, but ive never experienced lag going thru atmo on a craft below 300 parts, not even if i give it 30 engines on the 1st stage.  Dat and the streamer PCs were very high spec last i checked so if they experienced that kind of lag there is a good chance you are screwed on a normal home gaming rig (that doesnt cost more then 2 used cars where i live).  Heck, while i do want to try the game (even in its unfinished and buggy state), i doubt i'd even be able to run a 20 part count ship at useful FPS.

Heck, i'm running KSP1 with:

EVE

Scatterer

Parallax (with tesselation off and all textures manually edited down to reasonable resolution as 8192x8192 for a tiny rock is beyond OVERKILL and completely unnecessary, no idea why this is done for the mod textures)

DIRT

TURD

Waterfall

And from my experience i can comfortably handle a sub 1K part vessel in orbit before the lag starts to be annoying, and around 500 or so for an atmospheric craft.  Heck, ive loaded up nearly 3K parts on multiple occasions and while it does get painfully slow and laggy, the game is still playable.  One of my hopes for KSP2 was that they would have slightly better high part count optimization (perhaps they will eventually in a few more years), but right now in KSP2 on a super beefy rig 151 parts ran worse then a 500 part SSTO with way more engines on it in KSP1 on my own rig, so at least with EA it appears unlikely i will get any useful performance out of it, albeit one of my friends does plan to try and install it on my rig to see whether it will run at all.  If it does i'll likely buy it, if not i'll wait and see if the perf improves enuff to handly my rig since its still going strong and i generally dont upgrade unless what i have now falls apart on its own and its gonan likely be at least a year if not more b4 i need a new rig (i undervolt my GPU and CPU for longevity's sake and sofar ive never had thermal problems because of it and performance (while not as good as overclocked) is at least very consistent and remains within where the hardware normally should perform out of the box.

 

Also worth noting the major things ive found which are less then ideal:

*wheels are buggy (they seem to have broken colliders and are implemented using the same hyper limited raycast solution of KSP1 which means they will not work when placed sideways or at any angle but vertically the way the suspension intends them to go (real wheels would technically work at any angle but would loose the spring/damping function when placed sideways, dont mean they shouldnt work at all).

*SAS is messed up on planes with anything but the bare minimum control surfaces (simple PID solution, hopefully wont take too long or be very hard as they can pull the PID values from KSP1).

*Ground scatters and the terrain looks a bit bland (maybee this is cause i'm so used to scatterer and love its alien feel, but in general its a step backwards).  I'm certain there will be mods to make the scatters cooler/more alien so no worries here.  As for the terrain tex, scatterer's is prettier imo, however its also a bit buggy and occasionally has tiling issues and artefacting so its a bit of a give/take.  The one point of praise i can give KSP2 here though is that compared to pure stock KSP1, its a much better looking game in every category.

 

 

Despite seeing alot of bad, i will reserve my final judgement once its out of EA, but given that the current game isnt even remotely close to the original trailer, it is a bit dissapointing (especially with the absurd minimum GPU requirement.  Who these days plays games below 1080p so you may as well consider any GPU below the bare minimum to be useless if indeed the game has such insane requirements once it launches and we start seeing some legit benchmarks on less then stellar setups...

[Wheehaw Kerman]

Don’t care.  Still buying it.  Enjoy whatever it is you’re going to be doing Friday!

[TeddyDD]

The game on ESA presentation looks like an unoptimized, buggy mess. Physics seems to be exact same engine from KSP1 (laggy noodle rockets again ). Before ESA presentation, I was set on buying it on day one. Now I'm not sure anymore.

I can wait for colonies, multiplayer, interstellar and even for features from KSP1 to be ported, but I expected rock solid foundation.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

4 hours ago, HebaruSan said:In the video before his official embargoed KSP2 preview, Scott Manley mentioned going to the big event with all the other space Youtubers. He wasn't able to say anything specific at that time, but I was alarmed by one thing I didn't hear: enthusiasm. It did not sound like he saw anything that inspired or excited him, and it did not sound like he was looking forward to telling us about it. A gamer who loves aerospace so much that he's getting his pilot's license in his spare time, who saw the potential in KSP1 early on and made many series using it to have fun and teach, was reacting to this highly anticipated release with "meh". That's when I knew there were going to be problems.

A bit unrelated but have you considered what I call “reaction inflation”?  It’s driven by (or so I understand) algorithms in social medial that prioritize thumbnails with exaggerated facial expressions, because these tend to get more engagement.  So CCs have to make wilder, more hyperactive chimp-like facial expressions during their videos in order to drive engagement (some say with YouTube’s core audience of individuals with, um, challenges who do nothing but watch YT all day).  It’s bloody annoying.  Even my fave bonsai channel is doing it.

Anyhow, I think that Scott’s reactions were quite normal for an adult male human in a public space critically evaluating a new version of software that he’s an acknowledged expert on.  

6 minutes ago, TeddyDD said:

The game on ESA presentation looks like an unoptimized, buggy mess. Physics seems to be exact same engine from KSP1 (laggy noodle rockets again ). Before ESA presentation, I was set on buying it on day one. Now I'm not sure anymore.

I can wait for colonies, multiplayer, interstellar and even for features from KSP1 to be ported, but I expected rock solid foundation.

You want to get to the ideal KSP2, one that meets our “expectations”?

Buy the game tomorrow.  Vote with your wallet, it’ll help fund development and demonstrate to Intercept’s corporate masters that there’s a market for 1.0.  Fifty bucks is nothing, and your early investment will get you a better game for zero dollars more down the road.

Playtest the game.  Find bugs and report them.  Give good feedback.  Lather, rinse, repeat until done.

Be patient.  KSP1 took 6-7 years or so.  Those years were the best, most compelling gaming experience we’ve had for a lot of us.  And we know that KSP2 is much farther along in development (we learned this morning that the basic code for the entire roadmap is *already* in the game) with a larger well funded team of professional game devs working on it.  It’s projected to reach 1.0 by next fall, according to TT investor forecasts.

Let the whiners whine.  

[pandaman]

33 minutes ago, TeddyDD said:

...but I expected rock solid foundation.

This is hopefully what the EA will help to achieve. 

[cfds]

40 minutes ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Buy the game tomorrow.  Vote with your wallet, it’ll help fund development and demonstrate to Intercept’s corporate masters that there’s a market for 1.0.  Fifty bucks is nothing, and your early investment will get you a better game for zero dollars more down the road.

Paying them now means telling Take2 that you are fine with paying $50 for the current state of the game, nothing more, nothing less. And the "I will buy this game no matter what"-attitude is why game publishers feel justified to drop tech demos on the market for at least AA prizing...

[Wheehaw Kerman]

51 minutes ago, cfds said:

Paying them now means telling Take2 that you are fine with paying $50 for the current state of the game, nothing more, nothing less. And the "I will buy this game no matter what"-attitude is why game publishers feel justified to drop tech demos on the market for at least AA prizing...

And I am.  Imagine thinking fifty bucks is a lot of money, first of all, and secondly, it buys me 1.0 down the road.  

[K^2]

1 hour ago, TeddyDD said:

Physics seems to be exact same engine from KSP1

It's still a Unity game, so the odds of the physics engine changing were never particularly great. Unity is shifting towards Havok, but that is still considered somewhat experimental.

[AtomicTech]

All things considered, I'm quite excited to play it on Friday!

[Chilkoot]

9 hours ago, Devblaze said:

I feel like they have overpromised and underdelivered

There's a lot of frustration with the scope of the release, but as we sharpen the pitchforks, we need to bear in mind that the decision to go live Feb 24 as a scaled-down EA rests entirely with the publisher/producer (the money folks).  Take-Two's financial year end is March 31, and Private Division really needed to get something on the books for this project, as it's already years behind.

It's like the constant tug-of-war between engineering and sales in any company that makes something.  Engineers are scrambling to build something at least half usable, while sales is promising the world and wondering why it wasn't done yesterday.

There's really no doubting Intercept's vision and enthusiasm and just plain belief in KSP 2.  However, they have been so focused on minutia like geologically "sound" planets, they may have poorly prioritized overall development, and now here we are at a late, arguably expensive, lukewarm release.

If Intercept is given the time and funding they need long-term, chances are good they'll end up with a great product, but - historically - games with big problems at release very seldom bounce back to be broadly successful, even if they become great titles eventually (Duke Nukem and Bard's Tale IV come to mind).

[Agustin]

I think that the most and arguably the only problem I fear is the performance issue. All other aspects can be improved by the modding community and by future updates. But the fact that they said we were going to be able to do huge ships and the performance of EA seems to be SO bad, the fear is the new architecture or engine seems to not being able to achieve that. All we need is a good engine a good base from which the community with feedback and modding will help the game to be so much better. But that doesn't seem to be going to happen. Which is what gets me a little bit sad. But who knows, maybe the performance issues can be solved soon, and beneath the hood there IS a good foundation. It seems strange though that they couldn't deliver a good performance EA. I really can't tell because I don't know anything about the code.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Agustin

[Scarecrow71]

10 hours ago, Devblaze said:

Hello everyone,

I wanted to share my thoughts on Kerbal Space Program 2. While some players and critics have praised its improved graphics, user interface, multiplayer mode, and interstellar features, others have criticized its bugs, glitches, performance issues, and lack of innovation compared to the original game. In my opinion, while KSP2 looks like a visual improvement, it has not met my expectations. I got into Kerbal Space Program when KSP2 was announced, and I had fun with it after having installed many mods to make it a more polished experience (like the tutorial fixing mod.) However, I firmly believe it will be a while before the studio fulfills their promises, and I feel like they have overpromised and underdelivered.

It's important to keep in mind that game development can be a complex and challenging process, but the game's problematic development history suggests that there may be more difficulties ahead. The developers have promised to update the game regularly with new content and fixes. I hope that they will be able to deliver on their promises and address some of the issues that the players have raised. In the meantime, I plan to continue playing the original game and keep an eye on KSP2 updates.

What are your thoughts on Kerbal Space Program 2 so far?

Let's discuss!

I'm curious to know how KSP2 has not met your expectations WHEN IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET.  You haven't played it.  You don't know what tweaks are going to be made pre-EA based on Manley and that whole room of people giving feedback.  How can you possibly feel disappointed when you haven't even played the game yet?

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

It’s projected to reach 1.0 by next fall, according to TT investor forecasts.

Really?  That's a lot faster than I expected.  Next fall, meaning fall of 2023 or fall or 2024?  If 2024, then that's more in line with my expectations

[LoSBoL]

14 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I'm curious to know how KSP2 has not met your expectations WHEN IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET.  You haven't played it.  You don't know what tweaks are going to be made pre-EA based on Manley and that whole room of people giving feedback.  How can you possibly feel disappointed when you haven't even played the game yet?

I can only speak for myself, but the specification release last week, and the whole ESA event crew which made video's and opinions of the current state of KSP2 was a harsh reality check. 

Edit; I'm still excited though to get my hands on it tomorrow and find out for myself. I have no expectations on things I saw the last couple of days being fixed before tomorrow. But I'll accept that, because I am off the fierce opinion that I'm not owned anything, even if I spend 50 dollars on it. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by LoSBoL

[Pthigrivi]

21 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Really?  That's a lot faster than I expected.  Next fall, meaning fall of 2023 or fall or 2024?  If 2024, then that's more in line with my expectations

Yeah what they're talking about with colonies and resources and interstellar sounds really pretty complicated. Obviously there's some work thats been put in already, but Im thinking mid to late 2024 before multiplayer and that might be optimistic. At the same time if we get colonies and interstellar this year I'll be perfectly happy.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Pthigrivi