Kerbal Space Program 2 (not dying and getting a new owner) Hype Train.

[Lisias]

6 minutes ago, Minmus Taster said:

Take what happened to Twitter X and imagine that being applied to Kerbal, 

I'm using Twitter X again after long years ignoring it. Currently more a lurker than anything,  but the fact is that I'm logging there again. More times than on Slashdot,  by the way.

[Minmus Taster]

21 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I'm using Twitter X again after long years ignoring it. Currently more a lurker than anything,  but the fact is that I'm logging there again. More times than on Slashdot,  by the way.

Good luck, I need to limit my lurking to a couple of minutes per day : P

[Lisias]

Just now, Minmus Taster said:

Good luck, I need to limit my lurking to a couple of minutes per day : P

That's the thing: block is your friend. I don't waste my time complaining about how my timeline is full of crap, I just block the source of the crap and that's it. Now and then something passes, and now and then I add someone to the block list, and life goes on. I'm only reporting crimes, but it's more than an year since I don't see anything remotely similar to something illegal.

So, yeah. Twitter X is better for me nowadays.

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, Minmus Taster said:

Good luck, I need to limit my lurking to a couple of minutes per day : P

I lurk on X for a good 15 minutes in the morning, and then ignore it the rest of the day.  Granted, I have zero followers, and I only follow a couple of gaming mags, Scott Manley, Matt Lowne, the Green Bay Packers, and the Vegas Golden Knights.  Still, I don't give it much attention.

[Grenartia]

At the risk of derailing the discussion (which I'm not trying to do) I don't like the kinds of cowmanure Melon Husk does, or promotes, or platforms. I think a lot of the spaceflight enthusiast community is too excited by SpaceX to pay attention to the massive red flags. Suffice it to say, he should not be buying the KSP IP, and he definitely won't be as benevolent as Squad was before T2. Speaking of whom, yeah, I actually do think Elon buying KSP from them would be worse than them keeping it. Shocking as it is, there are some things worse than AAA game publishers. Hatemongers and conspiracy promoters being primary examples. 

[Infinite Aerospace]

8 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I lurk on X for a good 15 minutes in the morning, and then ignore it the rest of the day.  Granted, I have zero followers, and I only follow a couple of gaming mags, Scott Manley, Matt Lowne, the Green Bay Packers, and the Vegas Golden Knights.  Still, I don't give it much attention.

Haven't touched Twitter for years, it's a literal echo chamber for clinically insane people. During my time there I experienced more frequent, absolute vitriol than any other social media platform I've came across. It's a shame because it was nice being able to have brief exchanges with people like Tory Bruno, I loved the answers he gave to things if I'm honest.

[Grenartia]

6 hours ago, Grenartia said:

At the risk of derailing the discussion (which I'm not trying to do) I don't like the kinds of cowmanure Melon Husk does, or promotes, or platforms. I think a lot of the spaceflight enthusiast community is too excited by SpaceX to pay attention to the massive red flags. Suffice it to say, he should not be buying the KSP IP, and he definitely won't be as benevolent as Squad was before T2. Speaking of whom, yeah, I actually do think Elon buying KSP from them would be worse than them keeping it. Shocking as it is, there are some things worse than AAA game publishers. Hatemongers and conspiracy promoters being primary examples. 

Actually, if we had to convince a space billionaire to buy the IP for continued development, I'd sooner endorse convincing Bezos than Musk. Not that I think Bezos would be good, either. 

Honestly, the only one of that group I'd be comfortable owning the IP is Peter Beck. Man literally ate his hat just to prove a point about doing what he said he'll do. 

[Lisias]

6 hours ago, Grenartia said:

Actually, if we had to convince a space billionaire to buy the IP for continued development, I'd sooner endorse convincing Bezos than Musk. Not that I think Bezos would be good, either. 

Honestly, the only one of that group I'd be comfortable owning the IP is Peter Beck. Man literally ate his hat just to prove a point about doing what he said he'll do. 

John Carmack. How in Kraken's Name I forgot about him, he have deep knowledge on both industries!

He's a seasoned and successful game developer (surprised? ), and also funded an aerospace company in the past, Armadillo Aerospace, that managed to accomplish some interesting milestones in the late 2000's (X Prize's Lunar Lander - who remember X Prize?).

I doubt he would foot all the money, but if someone else help with the funds, not to mention lure him into get interested on the stunt, I'm absolutely sure this guy would build a solid team and deliver the project!

Edited June 12 by Lisias
Somehow, the first paragraph got cropped on Save...

[Infinite Aerospace]

15 minutes ago, Lisias said:

John Carmack. How in Kraken's Name I forgot about him,

He's a seasoned and successful game developer (surprised? ), and also funded an aerospace company in the past, Armadillo Aerospace, that managed to accomplish some interesting milestones in the late 2000's (X Prize's Lunar Lander - who remember X Prize?).

I doubt he would foot all the money, but if someone else help with the funds, not to mention lure him into get interested on the stunt, I'm absolutely sure thus guy would build  solid team and deliver the project!

Solid suggest with Carmack, but can any of us see anyone touching Kerbal Space Program?

[Lisias]

1 minute ago, Infinite Aerospace said:

Solid suggest with Carmack, but can any of us see anyone touching Kerbal Space Program?

It's this, or  seeing the thing slowly bitrot into oblivion.

It's almost 10 years screwing things up. Sooner or later someone need to realise that the best move is not to play anymore, and let someone else more capable assume the job.

[Infinite Aerospace]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

It's this, or  seeing the thing slowly bitrot into oblivion.

It's almost 10 years screwing things up. Sooner or later someone need to realise that the best move is not to play anymore, and let someone else more capable assume the job.

I'd rather not see it disappear into the aether but at the same time I have no realistic hope anyone will pick it up. I think there's a lot of potential in Kerbal Space Program as an intellectual property but game publishers seldom care about 'bigger picture' or distant dreams. Would a fully fleshed out, feature complete Kerbal Space Program II be appealing and perform well sales wise, honestly I think it would but there is a (How long is a piece of string?) sort of timescale involved. It's one of those it'll be done when it's done sorta things and I don't think publishers are down with that.

[Lisias]

3 minutes ago, Infinite Aerospace said:

I'd rather not see it disappear into the aether but at the same time I have no realistic hope anyone will pick it up.

And this is precisely the reason I think John Carmack is a good bet - he didn't earn a penny with Armadillo, he essentially outright funded the thing (em PT-BR, we say "à fundo perdido", meaning footing the money without expecting interest - but not being sad if some happens).

He had the itch, the had the will, but by some personal reason he had to pause Armadillo - but never closed the thing, so he's probably still hoping to somehow return to this industry. Perhaps he can be convinced that KSP is the first step for such return?

[Infinite Aerospace]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

And this is precisely the reason I think John Carmack is a good bet - he didn't earn a penny with Armadillo, he essentially outright funded the thing (em PT-BR, we say "à fundo perdido", meaning footing the money without expecting interest - but not being sad if some happens).

He had the itch, the had the will, but by some personal reason he had to pause Armadillo - but never closed the thing, so he's probably still hoping to somehow return to this industry. Perhaps he can be convinced that KSP is the first step for such return?

Perhaps he can, it's a worthwhile endeavour I think.

[dprostock]

7 hours ago, Lisias said:

And this is precisely the reason I think John Carmack is a good bet - he didn't earn a penny with Armadillo, he essentially outright funded the thing (em PT-BR, we say "à fundo perdido", meaning footing the money without expecting interest - but not being sad if some happens).

He had the itch, the had the will, but by some personal reason he had to pause Armadillo - but never closed the thing, so he's probably still hoping to somehow return to this industry. Perhaps he can be convinced that KSP is the first step for such return?

Money. How much are we talking about?

How much would T2 order to cover costs?

And to that must be added the cost of further development.  

What will the market be like in two years?  ( at least )

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, dprostock said:

Money. How much are we talking about?

I don't think TT2 is on  position to make too much demands on the subject. 

Things as starting to look like when Siemens essentially paid BenQ to assume the mobile business and stop the hemorrhage (both financial and P/R).

I don't know if they are that bad already, but IMHO they are going to get there sooner or later.

 

3 hours ago, dprostock said:

And to that must be added the cost of further development.  

What will the market be like in two years?  ( at least )

It's not about direct revenue, but indirect ones. You "waste" money here, but this money lubricates some gears, that maje some others to move, and the economic engine ends up rendering you some revenue on the long run in the other end of the shaft. 

It's essentially how NASA help to fund themselves - did you know that NASA has a licensing program for their IP and technologies they produce? 

https://ipcloseup.com/2020/11/17/nasa-is-granted-a-patent-for-identifying-a-faster-cheaper-moon-route-has-a-new-space-race-begun/

https://technology.nasa.gov/license#:~:text=NASA waives the initial licensing,net royalty fee of 4.2%.

The Government funds NASA, that so license the technologies they created to promote commercial operations based on it, that so renders money to NASA but also taxes for the Government,  as well GDP growth.

I don't have a clue about how to make this idea to work on KSP,  but if there's someone that can find a way,  this guy is Carmack. He have a deep understanding on both industries.

Edited June 13 by Lisias
Don't you hate autocompletes?

[Grenartia]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

I don't think TT2 is on  position to make too much demands on the subject. 

Things as starting to look like when Siemens essentially paid BenQ to assume the mobile business and stop the hemorrhage (both financial and P/R).

I don't know if they are that bad already, but IMHO they are going to get there sooner or later.

 

It's not about direct revenue, but indirect ones. You "waste" money here, but this money lubricates some gears, that maje some others to move, and the economic engine ends up rendering you some revenue on the long run in the other end of the shaft. 

It's essentially how NASA help to fund themselves - did you know that NASA has a licensing program for their IP and technologies they produce? 

https://ipcloseup.com/2020/11/17/nasa-is-granted-a-patent-for-identifying-a-faster-cheaper-moon-route-has-a-new-space-race-begun/

https://technology.nasa.gov/license#:~:text=NASA waives the initial licensing,net royalty fee of 4.2%.

The Government funds NASA, that so license the technologies they created to promote commercial operations based on it, that so renders money to NASA but also taxes for the Government,  as well GDP growth.

I don't have a clue about how to make this idea to work on KSP,  but if there's someone that can find a way,  this guy is Carmack. He have a deep understanding on both industries.

I mean, the only remotely tangible business benefit to KSP is getting more people interested in becoming aerospace engineers. 

[Fizzlebop Smith]

A good indication that the  game is dead. Game gets an update patch and it's just us in these hallowed halls.

Edited June 13 by Fizzlebop Smith

[Lisias]

10 hours ago, Grenartia said:

I mean, the only remotely tangible business benefit to KSP is getting more people interested in becoming aerospace engineers. 

Nope. I think it would be the most important, give the current deficit on STEM professionals, but there're other possible indirect benefits

• If the thing goes Open Source, it will help to train more people on software development, probably software focused for the aerospace industry
  • Did you know that Logistics companies are looking on Euro Truck Simulator looking for job candidates?
• Will give the IP a opportunity to reach markets that they are currently absent, with better chances of licensing it and get some royalties.
  • Look NASA
• And others that someone more seasoned on the market can better explore than me

Expand your mind beyound the concept of selling licenses. Everything can be salable if you find the demand and right price.

[kerbiloid]

On 6/9/2024 at 6:58 PM, Lisias said:

How we should try to sell him this thing?

"RemoteTech is better than Starlink."

[Mitokandria]

Say what you want about Paradox's most recent fumbles, but at least they admit when they f up and are willing to give refunds when they can't deliver on promises. I'm honestly hoping things get to a point that Paradox's offer is the only option.

They wouldn't be the best choice, it's Spacer's Choice but KSP2 could in worse hands.

Edited June 16 by Mitokandria
auto correct doesn't like swearing

[Lisias]

22 minutes ago, Mitokandria said:

I'm honestly hoping things get to a point that Paradox's offer is the only option.

They wouldn't be the best choice, it's Spacer's Choice but KSP2 could in worse hands.

You see, besides being one of the harshest critics (you will not find many of my criticisms around - guess why? ), I think things can end slightly better.

Yep, this whole ordeal is a major screw up, a really, really, really major screw up - the type of screw up that in some other industry would end up in lawsuits, banning from practicing the profession and, perhaps, jail time.

But this is the Software Industry. Worst, this is the Game Industry. But there are loopholes that can make things bearable.

One of them is, well, opening the Source (see my signature). For KSP2, this is obviously not happening on our lives, but there's KSP¹ that is well known and highly moddable. Now, assuming that Reverse Engineering will not be banned for good for USA made Software (again, see my signature), what prevents one to import some (or all) of the KSP2 assets to be used on KSP¹?

As long you properly own both games, it would be perfectly legal to do such. You would not even need to copy assets around, being enough to pinpoint the KSP2 installation inside the KSP¹ add'on and let it do the trick - we already have custom loaders, by the way - 80% of the job is already done.

You will never have KSP2 implemented inside KSP¹, but some of the features are plausible.

In truth, once the KSP2 pricing gets into a reasonable level (or in a sale), it's not impossible I would buy it - now I know what I'm buying.

(I had bought scraps before to repurpose its working parts in the past - it would not be something new on my life)

[Lisias]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:26 PM, Mitokandria said:

I'm honestly hoping things get to a point that Paradox's offer is the only option.

I don't think we can count with Paradox anymore...

Quote

Paradox cancels life sim Life by You, CEO says they gave the studio 'a fair shot' but now 'believe it is better to stop'

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/life-sim/paradox-cancels-life-sim-life-by-you-ceo-says-they-gave-the-studio-a-fair-shot-but-now-believe-it-is-better-to-stop/

(sorry to tell you)

=== == = POST EDIT = == ===

And it got worse - the Tectonic Studio (responsible for the game) was closed and the whole staff laid off.

Quote

Paradox Interactive has decided to cease further operations in the wholly owned studio Paradox Tectonic (Tectonic) in Berkeley, California. The studio has since 2019 led the development of the game Life by You, whose release is canceled, and employs 24 people.

https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/media/press-releases/press-release/paradox-interactive-to-close-down-paradox-tectonic

 

Edited June 19 by Lisias
POST EDIT

[Tony Tony Chopper]

20 hours ago, Lisias said:

I don't think we can count with Paradox anymore...

(sorry to tell you)

#StopKillingGames

[Mitokandria]

22 hours ago, Lisias said:

I don't think we can count with Paradox anymore...

(sorry to tell you)

Et tu, Paradox?

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, Tony Tony Chopper said:

#StopKillingGames

#StopKillingStudios !

It's hard, costly and time consuming to build a team capable to build a game. We are seeing it in first hand here.

All these developers being laid off at the same time will mostly surely switch industries. Many of them will even end up earning more money on the long run - guess how this will reverberate on the Game Industry?

Right now, if I would be working on this Industry and since I have a family to care about I would sincerely considering looking for relocation. It's mid 2024 and more game developers were fired already this year than the whole 2023, that was a excrementsty year!

Quote

2024 has already had more video game industry layoffs than all of 2023 — and it’s only June

https://www.polygon.com/24177290/video-game-industry-layoffs-studio-closures-record

The carnage did not ended yet.

I'm foreseeing a huge chilling effect also on the Stores, 2025 is going to be even worse than 2024 for Gaming in general.

These corporations are, literally, destroying the whole landscape, this is Scorched Earth tactics.