Bug Status [8/11]

[calabus2]

4 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Will the release of the patch on Steam be tested by the team, or will it be left to the users, like it was done the last time?

I think we all know the answer to this

 

And what's up with the dealys in getting posts approved?

Edited August 12, 2023 by calabus2

[Infinite Aerospace]

Is there any other goodies in this update, like the vacuum engines in the previous one or is this a purely bug fix sorta patch?

[mucco]

15 hours ago, Dakota said:

Glad to hear it PDCWolf.

Honestly, I think there's enough of a story to tell around this particular issue that it could warrant a dev blog from @Darrin H and other members of QA.

As an RX6600 owner, and as such one of the main bug reporters on it, as well as a software dev, I would really really love to read it.

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, Infinite Aerospace said:

Is there any other goodies in this update, like the vacuum engines in the previous one or is this a purely bug fix sorta patch?

Purely bug fixes, no new content.

[Infinite Aerospace]

27 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Purely bug fixes, no new content.

That's all good like, there's a few rather frequent bugs on that list that I run into so I'm glad they're getting squashed. 

[Bosun]

I enjoy seeing the communication here. This is, by far, the most work that I've seen any developer put into keeping their clients updated on the status of the game. 

I know you're all not there yet - but it feels like you'll get there.  That's a sea-change from when the EA launched. I was very cynical of the launch and the game's maturity at that point, not because it was unfinished, but because it also gave the impression of a team that wasn't up to the task at hand, and confused on how to communicate about it. I wasn't worried about it being in development stages, but worried it wouldn't ever make it to where we all wanted it to go.  

But you guys have put in the work, put in the communication and extra effort, and it shows. While I've not bought it yet - I look forward to it when the science milestone, reentry and atmospheric heating effects get in, bringing it up to where KSP 1 was when I first joined in 2011.  

Until then, I've been showing these blog posts to every other developer of every other game I play, and telling them, 'this is how you communicate with players.' 
Thank you, for all the work that goes into communication.  I know it's a lot.

 

[Pat20999]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:25 AM, Intercept Games said:

Investigating short-term and long-term solutions

Does this mean autostrut?

[11JRidding]

10 hours ago, Pat20999 said:

Does this mean autostrut?

As has been stated before, they want to fix the rocket wobble without doing what SQUAD did, which was just putting a band-aid in the UI (auto-generate struts in places the user cannot physically place them) and calling it a day. Intercept don't want to implement a similarly hacky "solution"; they're looking for actual solutions to the underlying causes.

Edited August 13, 2023 by 11JRidding
Rephrase.

[wefightforpeace]

This looks mighty beefy!

[kdaviper]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:38 AM, Kerbart said:

Will the release of the patch on Steam be tested by the team, or will it be left to the users, like it was done the last time?

Yes

[PDCWolf]

1 hour ago, 11JRidding said:

As has been stated before, they want to fix the rocket wobble without doing what SQUAD did, which was just putting a band-aid in the UI (auto-generate struts in places the user cannot physically place them) and calling it a day. Intercept don't want to implement a similarly hacky "solution"; they're looking for actual solutions to the underlying causes.

Just a small correction, autostrut does not add literal invisible struts between parts. It alters the tree structure to include multiple new joints between those parts.

[calabus2]

23 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

Yes

Cite your sources 

[Spicat]

26 minutes ago, calabus2 said:

Cite your sources 

[calabus2]

1 hour ago, Spicat said:

Go read the question in your screenshot again and then explain how that has anything to do with the current proposed patch coming this month. The question was about Science and not bugs that persist since release. If even a basic level of testing had been done before release... well let's not get into that.

[RalphKerman]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:38 PM, Kerbart said:

Will the release of the patch on Steam be tested by the team, or will it be left to the users, like it was done the last time?

It is tragic that such a question is a serious one nowadays.....

I wanted to laugh hard when I read it but then I remembered my first 10 minutes with the last update...... My 2nd keystroke after building a one-part rocket (just a capsule and then hop to launch pad to just check that nothing is fundamentally broken or crashes): "M" to look at the map for fun and then "M" again to return from it made my camera position being off by 180 degrees in the middle of the launch tower..... the infamous "camera position bug" (which you claim is fixed in the update, well my 1st and 2nd keystroke in the next update will tell me that ......).

That was minute 1 and 2 of patch 3...The rest of the 10 minutes I built a dummy craft (from the bookt "Rockets for Dummies".....), sent it to beyond the atmosphere, let it re-enter and discovered that capsules had zero drag, did even accelerte in the atmosphere and were magically catapulted back to space shortly before smashing into the ground...... So these 10 minutes showed 2 serious (one game-breaking) bugs that ANY QA play session should have been able to detect with a probability of 100%, it is to this day completely beyond me how these bugs made it into patch 3.....

So coming back to Kerbart's (rethorical ?!) question: My faith in the QA process is shattered. I am still very hopeful that many bugs are fixed but I am very worried that new (and old) bugs will emerge and we enter a new cycle of numerous bugs being reported by the community and that "after the patch is just before the next hotfix because something is horribly broken".

And I really really hope the team understands that this upcoming update is (imo) one of the last chances to salvage the game. Please show that the long time you had since the last patch has been used to produce a product with a clear step forward, stay true to your statements above ("Fix implemented and verified" means it WILL work for all of us once the update is installed!) and please double-, tripple- or whatever-many-times- check that the announced fixes are working properly.

Credibility is what the community now needs to experience.

Please show us that QA works and developments are going into the right direction by providing a significant and functional update to the game!

(not PR blah blah or tweets that announce an announcement of a preview of some basic feature "soon"....)

If that next patch delivers on multiple fronts and the announced fixes are really in the game and work I am sure we will have (some) faith in the future of KSP 2 development restored.

[calabus2]

5 minutes ago, RalphKerman said:

It is tragic that such a question is a serious one nowadays.....

I wanted to laugh hard when I read it but then I remembered my first 10 minutes with the last update...... My 2nd keystroke after building a one-part rocket (just a capsule and then hop to launch pad to just check that nothing is fundamentally broken or crashes): "M" to look at the map for fun and then "M" again to return from it made my camera position being off by 180 degrees in the middle of the launch tower..... the infamous "camera position bug" (which you claim is fixed in the update, well my 1st and 2nd keystroke in the next update will tell me that ......).

That was minute 1 and 2 of patch 3...The rest of the 10 minutes I built a dummy craft (from the bookt "Rockets for Dummies".....), sent it to beyond the atmosphere, let it re-enter and discovered that capsules had zero drag, did even accelerte in the atmosphere and were magically catapulted back to space shortly before smashing into the ground...... So these 10 minutes showed 2 serious (one game-breaking) bugs that ANY QA play session should have been able to detect with a probability of 100%, it is to this day completely beyond me how these bugs made it into patch 3.....

So coming back to Kerbart's (rethorical ?!) question: My faith in the QA process is shattered. I am still very hopeful that many bugs are fixed but I am very worried that new (and old) bugs will emerge and we enter a new cycle of numerous bugs being reported by the community and that "after the patch is just before the next hotfix because something is horribly broken".

And I really really hope the team understands that this upcoming update is (imo) one of the last chances to salvage the game. Please show that the long time you had since the last patch has been used to produce a product with a clear step forward, stay true to your statements above ("Fix implemented and verified" means it WILL work for all of us once the update is installed!) and please double-, tripple- or whatever-many-times- check that the announced fixes are working properly.

Credibility is what the community now needs to experience.

Please show us that QA works and developments are going into the right direction by providing a significant and functional update to the game!

(not PR blah blah or tweets that announce an announcement of a preview of some basic feature "soon"....)

If that next patch delivers on multiple fronts and the announced fixes are really in the game and work I am sure we will have (some) faith in the future of KSP 2 development restored.

This is pretty much 95% of the community right now. One last effing chance and that's it. Enough of the PR promises and horse and pony shows. The vapid AMAs with softball questions. Fix the game. 

[Spicat]

7 hours ago, calabus2 said:

Go read the question in your screenshot again and then explain how that has anything to do with the current proposed patch coming this month. The question was about Science and not bugs that persist since release. If even a basic level of testing had been done before release... well let's not get into that.

Dakota said that he plays on the candidate build which is what the patch corresponds to. So it’s relevant.

[Kerbart]

14 hours ago, RalphKerman said:

(...) And I really really hope the team understands that this upcoming update is (imo) one of the last chances to salvage the game.  (...)

I don't think it's a binary cutoff. I do think that the patch/feedback cycle is getting on a very slippery slope as more and more players are likely to abandon KSP2 (and either stop playing completely or revert to KSP1). There's a reason I stopped complaining that much; I simply went back to KSP1. That doesn't just happen on a patch-by-patch basis (although those are indeed big-shift moments), but also in between where we're left with a game that, albeit barely playable now, is far from enjoyable. Two months between updates makes the tolerance wear thin.

At one point that's going to affect the quantity — and if there's some kind of bell curve to it — the quality of the feedback. Once the devs have to rely in internal  QA to learn about bugs and prioritize them, the game will stay riddled with  bugs (because we know QA doesn't catch "game play" bugs, they only check if fixes address the one single issue), remain unplayable and never get traction.

As long as the game is in its current state, it is rolling slowly down a slope towards that abyss. Updates will either push it back up and flatten that slope a little bit. Or kick it down and accelerate the process. I don't think it's the last chance but there's surely a lot riding on that update.

[VlonaldKerman]

Fun fact: it’s been longer since the last hotfix than between release and patch one.

[Vanamonde]

Some demeaning comments have been removed. Please play nice. 

[Periple]

13 hours ago, Kerbart said:

As long as the game is in its current state, it is rolling slowly down a slope towards that abyss. Updates will either push it back up and flatten that slope a little bit. Or kick it down and accelerate the process. I don't think it's the last chance but there's surely a lot riding on that update.

I think that it would be a good thing if players lost interest at this point. Interest will be rekindled with the science update. They can’t afford to fumble that though, a second “launch” blowing up on the pad would be very bad! 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Periple said:

I think that it would be a good thing if players lost interest at this point. Interest will be rekindled with the science update. They can’t afford to fumble that though, a second “launch” blowing up on the pad would be very bad! 

I am one of those people. I did play KSP1 today and it was awesome.

From my point of view KSP2 management is all about "ideas". Like someone who made a "Hello World" and learned about "for-loops" and then thinks everything else is easy you just have to do it.

I have been there myself. Like 20 years ago. However after several years of hobby development and about 10 years of paid software development I know that you can bring up "ideas" after spending 5 minutes on the toilet. Actually implementing those ideas take several months.

And from an external point of view, which is wild speculation, that is the problem with KSP2 development. There are too many people with ideas and basically nobody with the ability to actually implement them.

Which is probably the reason why we get video-blogs all the time. After 10 years of professional software dev I never did write an essay about why a bug happend and why it took me 6 months+ to fix them. Nobody cares. However people care about ideas. Which is probably why they did announce some videos about why orbital decay happens. They simply don't understand the difference between "having an idea", "implementing it" and "fixing bugs".

Edited August 15, 2023 by running_bird

[Mikki]

Thank you for the excellent progress on the most urgent issues, i knew this would become a great sequel!

Cannot wait! 

Edit: Typo, damn, and spell

Edited August 17, 2023 by Mikki

[b905]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:25 AM, Intercept Games said:

 

We're excited to share that many of these fixes and more will be included in Patch v0.1.4 which is due out August 22nd.

 

23rd here and no info regarding delays. What should we expect?

[gluckez]

Just now, b905 said:

23rd here and no info regarding delays. What should we expect?

They tweeted that there would be a delay on the 19th. unfortunately, they didn't mention how long the delay would be