KSP 2 is a perfectly playable early access game (v0.1.4)

[Chilkoot]

8 hours ago, Superpluto126 said:

I'm having fun driving around the KSC in small rovers and i'm even getting good FPS! Around 20 at min and 40 at most!

On-surface FPS has definitely improved.  The bouncy wheel jank is gone for me this patch, too (which was a major buzz kill).

[Socraticat]

I like to watch flowers grow. We planted some on Mother's day and one of them has survived most of the summer. We almost missed first bloom in July after all of that waiting.  I'm really excited to do the same next spring. We have some better yard locations planned out.

When I log in to KSP2 I usually think about it like visiting someone's garden in progress. This year they are working on the irrigation system and planting methods, yard arrangement- the graphic in the pamphlet showed some really cool brick work for a retaining wall, but so far it's just birms of dirt. I know they'll replace it next year when they plant the next year's array.

This year I was hoping they would add some shade before the end of summer, but if they don't get around to it until next year that's ok too. After all, it would stink if they chose to put that shade up in a bad spot and have to take it down later delaying the Iris patch planned early next year to later that year, or worse, the year after that!

To be clear, I  am totally enjoying all of the roses KSP2 has planted. Some of them are obviously painted red and I keep getting poked by the thorns, but it is a beautiful garden and I'm looking forward to how they fill the space over the coming seasons.

[Turbo Ben]

IMO the game will not be playable until orbital decay bug and stage seperation/docking bugs are fixed, and there is joystick support. These 3 things also make the game not fun. I guess they are heading in the right direction but at such a pace that it will be months if not years before I pick it back up. I went back to KSP1 and have put over 100 hours into a career game. Most of the bugs are caused by the vast array of mods I have installed, and all so far have just required a reload. Visual and audio mods make KSP1 95% of what KSP2 is, all at 4K and smooth framerates.  Planet packs add what KSP2 won't have for, well, let's just say a long time.

[Royalswissarmyknife]

Its perfectly playable.

Its not fun at all for me though.

[Vl3d]

I'll say this to the "I have x-hundred hours in KSP 1 and this specific bug in this specific situation is preventing me from having any  fun in KSP 2" crowd: the game is in a good enough stable state now that, if I had kids, I would buy it for them and teach them the basics with the certainty they would have fun learning the basics.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions and so am I. I've read the Discord complaints, the Reddit venom and the Forum victimisation. I have paid the same about of money for this game as you and have the same amount of emotional investment in this game. I've dreamed as big as you about what this game could have, should and will be.

Hear me: KSP 2 is now in a better playable state and more fun than what KSP 1 was in it's early stages. It's not the game that's changed, it's you. So allow people starting out to enjoy this game and stop discouraging new players from trying it out.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Vl3d

[modus]

5 hours ago, Socraticat said:

I like to watch flowers grow. We planted some on Mother's day and one of them has survived most of the summer. We almost missed first bloom in July after all of that waiting.  I'm really excited to do the same next spring. We have some better yard locations planned out.

When I log in to KSP2 I usually think about it like visiting someone's garden in progress. This year they are working on the irrigation system and planting methods, yard arrangement- the graphic in the pamphlet showed some really cool brick work for a retaining wall, but so far it's just birms of dirt. I know they'll replace it next year when they plant the next year's array.

This year I was hoping they would add some shade before the end of summer, but if they don't get around to it until next year that's ok too. After all, it would stink if they chose to put that shade up in a bad spot and have to take it down later delaying the Iris patch planned early next year to later that year, or worse, the year after that!

To be clear, I  am totally enjoying all of the roses KSP2 has planted. Some of them are obviously painted red and I keep getting poked by the thorns, but it is a beautiful garden and I'm looking forward to how they fill the space over the coming seasons.

If I'm buying a game I want its roses to be fully grown in a gardening center so I can enjoy them. Maybe they're not fully grown, because they're early in their life (but I know that when I buy them). So a little patience is fine, because I can see that my rose is, in fact, a rose.

I don't want some seeds, that a gardner still has to put in the ground, with only a promise that it's going to be a rose. Especially not when he keeps on delaying it. He sometimes sends me a message with a promise of a video of a rose (although i've never seen it), but that doesn't really help when I don't know when my own rose will be fully grown, or even be a rose.

[Dakitess]

20 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

I'll say this to the "I have x-hundred hours in KSP 1 and this specific bug in this specific situation is preventing me from having any  fun in KSP 2" crowd: the game is in a good enough stable state now that, if I had kids, I would buy it for them and teach them the basics with the certainty they would have fun learning the basics.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions and so am I. I've read the Discord complaints, the Reddit venom and the Forum victimisation. I have paid the same about of money for this game as you and have the same amount of emotional investment in this game. I've dreamed as big as you about what this game could have, should and will be.

Hear me: KSP 2 is now in a better playable state and more fun than what KSP 1 was in it's early stages. It's not the game that's changed, it's you. So allow people starting out to enjoy this game and stop discouraging new players from trying it out.

I quite agree with this BUT I'll definitely discourage anyone from buying it right now and I'll advise to wait a little longer and try out the first KSP : I don't see a single reason not to do so, and i'm open to read your opinion about it.

KSP2 is not worth the money nor the time it requires so far when a KSP1 is perfectly set to meet theses expectations.

I would hate having to explain to a mate or a nephew that "yeah it explodes when you undock coz it's not working properly yet, and yes it wobbles a lot coz we don't know, and no your screen is fine, it's just the game not having any kind of AA so far" with a feeling of apologies because I should have warned them about a very unpolished game that might even throw 10h of hard effort in their face with an anticlimactic and unpreventable explosion since it's not stable enough. That would be the best way do discourage anyone from continuing the discover of this marvelous Franchise that has so much to offer.

Do them a favor, advice for KSP1. Finger crossed for KSP2, I really personally hope it will end up somewhere cool enough to be recommendable, but I would bet quite some money that it won't, unfortunately.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Dakitess

[Vl3d]

3 minutes ago, Dakitess said:

I quite agree with this BUT I'll definitely discourage anyone from buying it right now and I'll advise to wait a little longer and try out the first KSP : I don't see a single reason not to do so, and i'm open to read your opinion about it.

KSP2 is not worth the money nor the time it requires so far when a KSP1 is perfectly set to meet theses expectations.

I would hate having to explain to a mate or a nephew that "yeah it explodes when you undock coz it's not working properly yet, and yes it wobbles a lot coz we don't know, and no your screen is fine, it's just the game not having any kind of AA so far" with a feeling of apologies because I should have warned them about a very unpolished game that might even throw 10h of hard effort in their face with an anticlimactic and unpreventable explosion since it's not stable enough. That would be the best way do discourage anyone from continuing the discover of this marvelous Franchise that has so much to offer.

Do them a favor, advice for KSP1. Finger crossed for KSP2, I really personally hope it will end up somewhere cool enough to be recommendable, but I would bet quite some money that it won't, unfortunately.

I would still advise them to buy KSP 2 for a simple reason. Years ago KSP 1 players had the opportunity of learning and growing with the game, which created an incredible lifelong bond with space science & technology. It stimulated their imagination, made them think about what the possibilities are, about what could come next. New KSP 2 players should have the same opportunity - to evolve with the game. And KSP 2 is good enough for new players to start learning at this point.

[cocoscacao]

22 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

I would still advise them to buy KSP 2 for a simple reason

Gotta disagree there. Years ago, KSP1 players didn't have an opportunity, but a lack of choice. I hope that will be changed. 

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, Vl3d said:

Hear me: KSP 2 is now in a better playable state and more fun than what KSP 1 was in it's early stages. It's not the game that's changed, it's you. So allow people starting out to enjoy this game and stop discouraging new players from trying it out.

Lol. Yeah, its MY fault KSP2 isn't holding up to expectations...I'm the one who changed...

Its funny, cuz I immediately change back when I boot up KSP1.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Meecrob

[Vl3d]

9 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

Lol. Yeah, its MY fault KSP2 isn't holding up to expectations...I'm the one who changed...

Its funny, cuz I immediately change back when I boot up KSP1.

If I'd bring my KSP 1 expectations into KSP 2, I would write a very large wishlist that you can read here:

And after I'd write it, I would enjoy what KSP 2 is right now and be a constructive member of the community.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Vl3d

[Meecrob]

11 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

constructive member of the community.

You are not being constructive, you are just yelling louder than me. And deflecting from what I'm trying to get at.

But I'm not here to play games. We agree to disagree, have a good one.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Meecrob

[Dakitess]

2 hours ago, Vl3d said:

I would still advise them to buy KSP 2 for a simple reason. Years ago KSP 1 players had the opportunity of learning and growing with the game, which created an incredible lifelong bond with space science & technology. It stimulated their imagination, made them think about what the possibilities are, about what could come next. New KSP 2 players should have the same opportunity - to evolve with the game. And KSP 2 is good enough for new players to start learning at this point.

KSP1 was then around 15-20$ without any discount and WAY less at the beginning, it was a legit WIP EA game, by a solo guy at first, then a small passionate team, without any preexisting game, etc. We won't repeat the whole thing again and again.

Sorry, it's not comparable by any means to my eyes and I'll stick recommending KSP1 for the previous reasons written.

Actually, you know what ? I bought KSP2 also because of what you said : be part of the dev, being able to write feedback, request, wishes, to discuss with the community during this fascinating phase of the game being developed, just like we did during the early of KSP1, indeed, and just like it's been promised by the official team. It was truly announced this way, it DID.

It's crazy how it derailed completely. It's nowhere close to that aspect which would have been totally fine for most players, an EA that we would have witness and help in its development, enjoyable, exciting, etc. It's not, it's frustrating, the communication is terrible, the rhythm is chaotic, the passion is lost, the novelty is absent, the basis is corrupted, the foundation is cracked and the trust is lower than even, even managing to damage the KSP1 activity and pleasure to play with. There is not incentive to continue participation to the dev, no reward to do so when we've seen how it's handle, no confidence that it'll help in anything and the community is more split than ever.

So, no, KSP2 can't be honestly recommended as a game to buy to actually feel that early stage of KSP1.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Dakitess

[gluckez]

wow, you know I left the ksp subreddit exactly because of how toxic of a community it had become, I would hate to do the same here.

Some people really only see the worst of the worst, and if there is even one tiny bug in a game, you'll never hear the end of it.
They bring up arguments like "back in ancient history, the EA was only 15$ and wasn't as buggy".
Well, back in ancient history, there were no features in that game either, and every game you bought, EA or not, costed less than half of what you
would pay for the modern equivalent.
look at NBA2K for example, back in 2013, that game was listed at about 30$, this years version the standard edition is 70$. neither were EA. 
so  KSP1 in EA was half the price of a AAA title full release.  Baldurs Gate 3 was 60$ early access. stop using that as an argument, 
that's just how it is now in almost every studio. that's inflation for ya.

12 minutes ago, Dakitess said:

the communication is terrible

You can talk straight to the devs right here on this forum, you are informed of patches on twitter, here and on steam, as well as what is included in the patches and what they are still working on, and if there are any delays.
communication is better than 99% of other developers.

 

14 minutes ago, Dakitess said:

the passion is lost, the novelty is absent, the basis is corrupted, the foundation is cracked and the trust is lower than even, even managing to damage the KSP1 activity and pleasure to play with.

This is only true for that small toxic part of the community that seems to bleed in everywhere. plenty of people are still optimistic, including myself. but we just leave places where it's starting to become toxic. Like I said, I literally left the ksp subreddit, where I had spent years of my time, because I got so sick of the toxicity. I can understand if YOU have no hope, if YOU have no incentive to continue participating, if YOU have lost your passion, but don't speak for others.

There has been many promises made by the team, and there's been many sneak peeks of those promises as well. you act like nothing has been done, but don't know what's happening behind the scenes or what features are included but just disabled until the foundation is strengthened. I know for a fact those features are already there, and I wish I could enable them and play them now, but I'll just have to be patient like everyone else.

[Vl3d]

12 minutes ago, Dakitess said:

It's not, it's frustrating, the communication is terrible, the rhythm is chaotic, the passion is lost, the novelty is absent, the basis is corrupted, the foundation is cracked and the trust is lower than even, even managing to damage the KSP1 activity and pleasure to play with. There is not incentive to continue participation to the dev, no reward to do so when we've seen how it's handle, no confidence that it'll help in anything and the community is more split than ever.

Right now we have a playable Sandbox mode which has been improved immensely with ~700 bugs fixed since launch. The foundation is solid now and  performance has also improved. There have been numerous dev diaries, interviews and AMAs. We have a bug tracker and community managers actually talk to us and relay our feedback to the team. The parts look great. We know that the terrain will use a new CBT system, rendering is being upgraded to Unity HDRP, the lighting will be better. We have the buyoncy, heat system and science mode updates to look forward to. The teams are working in parallel on Colonies, Interstellar travel, new star systems - with a lot of unreleased assets to show for. Things are materially improving and the game is continuously getting better. Devs have gone on record that they are going to address the limp rockets issue. There is so much cool stuff in the pipeline. There's every reason to be hopeful and positive.

[Dakitess]

@gluckez Ha, the Toxic Refrain, again. Won't answer to that, sorry, you lost me there.

@Vl3d Yeah, yeah, there is some positive things, fortunately, some glimpse of hope, this is why I don't abandon the whole KSP2 idea, why I keep coming to read the Patch logs, etc. But it's very very fainted to me, everything you've listed would be perfectly fine (well, maybe not perfect haha) for a game different than KSP2 which... Succeed to KSP1 ! It has almost everything in common with it, yet being devevelopped by a pro team for multiples years, having the whole feedback, the whole experience, the whole wishes of the community, all the dead end to avoid, all the mandatory things to improve, etc etc etc BUT... It's far from what is expected, being barely better than KSP1 in the rare novelties while noticeably worst in many other main subjects. It can't be right ! It's not a new game ! It's not a new opus with a whole new basis ! It's just KSP1 so far, everyone wonder where the "dev from scratch" has gone, the solid basis, the technically updated foundation, nah, we just have already dead end that are know for a decade  Framerate, tree-structured crafts, poor terrain, weird artifacts, wobble, orbital decay, and the list go on. C'mon... This is all very well known issues, there is not point doing a new KSP that would inherit so many limits as soon as it's launched !

You just can't ignore the fact that it's totally based on KSP1 which means A LOT, and its actual state is like a new born game that would not succeed to a decade-old very well established and community active game. I don't know how it's defendable. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Dakitess

[Snips]

9 hours ago, didkodidko said:

Did quick Apollo style mission just to check 0.1.4, mun orbit, separation - orbit decay - alt + f4

This!

[Alpha_star]

Well, I do not have time to play the new update, but I have played on 0.1.3.0 before. From what I see, the game is playable.

My computer uses an Intel i7-8700k and an AMD Rx580, which is far below the minimum specs for KSP2. The average framerate was around 15 at launch and 25 in space with my starship replica and highest graphics with 2x anti-alising, which might be unplayable to some but good for me.

Now I have only encountered three bugs in my two hour gameplay. The first one was the control surface invert issue, which is a bit visually uncomfortable but nothing too annoying. Other two bugs are the famous orbital decay and having my craft disassemble when igniting my engine. These two are a bit annoying, but the orbital decay issue was not that serious and the disassembly issue was solved by saving and reloading. None of them (to me) makes the game completely unplayable, but would make the game even better if fixed.

(Just a quick note, I have not encountered the graphical glitches yet, nor did I had trouble with staging.)

Another thing, the graphics is just AMAZING. Now people would argue this looks somewhat worse compared to highly modded KSP1, but I am getting better framerate in KSP2 than KSP1 with EVE-redux + Stock Volumetric Clouds, Parallax 2 and TUFX. Plus, the music is pretty good to me.

Still, it was a bit more buggy at the time of my playing compared to KSP1, but all of this shows me that the game isn't up to no good.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Alpha_star
Typos.

[Mephisto81]

1 hour ago, Dakitess said:

Hear me: KSP 2 is now in a better playable state and more fun than what KSP 1 was in it's early stages. It's not the game that's changed, it's you. So allow people starting out to enjoy this game and stop discouraging new players from trying it out.

If you decide that for yourself, that is perfectly fine. If you go around and tell others, what THEY need to find funny and what THEY should think and write according to your perception of the world, you have an issue at hand.
Kindly consider that: it is not your role in this world to tell me what I need to find funny and what I need to enjoy. I am happy for you, that you enjoy the game and I wish you lots of fond memories with it. But other people are not you

If I would talk to a person interested in the wold of space flight, orbital mechanics and Kerbals, there are very, very good reasons to introduce them to KSP 1 first before urging them to buy KSP2.
The price tag is significantly lower, the program is more stable and has more features and the available mods are almost as plenty as the stars itself.
Actually, I am playing with my 2.5 year old occasionaly and he is enyoing Kerbals. And explosions. And being able to toggle ladders, landing gears and engines.

The thing is, KSP2 is not the only alternative, it is not existing in a vacuum right now. It stands on the shoulders of a green-skinned (little) giant, and from that it is righly judged.

I am looking forward to the day I am buying the game and when I can recommend it heartily to others.
Alas, this day is not today, my fellow Kerbonaut.

[Alexoff]

13 minutes ago, gluckez said:

You can talk straight to the devs right here on this forum

And developers will not answer you in 99% of cases, in the remaining 1% of cases it will be a dry corporate response

[gluckez]

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

And developers will not answer you in 99% of cases, in the remaining 1% of cases it will be a dry corporate response

yes, there's lots of people here and the people doing the actual developing of the game, are busy doing the actual developing of the game. and most of the time I wouldn't answer either if someone is just ranting about something tiny.

[PDCWolf]

For all the toxic positivity around, it seems it's limited to posting on the forums and not actually playing the game. 400 peak on release, next day already dropped. This is half the pull than the previous update had. At least this might help understand that time is indeed a limited resource. If they take 10 years to make it, they'll end up making a game for 10 people.

Edited September 1, 2023 by PDCWolf

[Vl3d]

10 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

For all the toxic positivity around, it seems it's limited to posting on the forums and not actually playing the game. 400 peak on release, next day already dropped. This is half the pull than the previous update had. At least this might help understand that time is indeed a limited resource. If they take 10 years to make it, they'll end up making a game for 10 people.

Yeah well, did you consider the fact that all the negativity is discouraging people to try the game again to see that it's in a good state now? That's my whole argument if you read my posts.

[Stephensan]

5 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

For all the toxic positivity around, it seems it's limited to posting on the forums and not actually playing the game. 400 peak on release, next day already dropped. This is half the pull than the previous update had. At least this might help understand that time is indeed a limited resource. If they take 10 years to make it, they'll end up making a game for 10 people.

A game far from being enjoyable, and just playable enough to be able to "play" at 6 month...  People expected more content by this point, and well, we aren't even at heating visuals, let alone heating in ksp 2, in 6 months, 2023 isn't kind to this slow development.. longer bug fix updates, less communications, zero new content, people will just stop playing, and stop caring about the game, and once they leave they won't come back due to the sour taste of the initial playing of ksp 2. The changes have to be leaps and bounds better, compared to when they stopped playing.

[Snips]

4 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

Yeah well, did you consider the fact that all the negativity is discouraging people to try the game again to see that it's in a good state now?

Did you consider the fact that there are still gamebreaking bugs like decaying orbits? I agree that the devs are making progress, but the game is far away from "a good state". And looking back at the last 6 month and the progress made,  I assume there is still a long way until I will call it "in a good state".