Introducing For Science! - Major Content Update Out in December

[Kerbart]

9 hours ago, Periple said:

I really don’t! They might be fun the first time but they will get really boring quickly!

The mission should be the minigame: make the conditions for the experiment just a bit more involved (or, even better, make it possible to get more science by meeting more complex conditions). That would push you to do more challenging missions.

 It just has to make sense rather than be a random “take a temperature reading at these arbitrary coordinates.”

I’m quite keen to see how this plays. It’s easy to toss around ideas, turning them into something that’s actually fun is a whole different thing!

Breaking Ground is a good example. You set up the earthquake detector and then you have to slam something into the ground close to it. It's one of my favorite science missions because you get a reward for being accurate. Also, Breaking Ground Science, because it's more involved, cannot simply be evolved with "let's bring everything all the time."

What would make it more interesting if starting an experiment requires a follow-up that doesn't appear to be random but isn't the same every single time either. Even better if it returns something you can use in the game -- either info on planets you didn't have before, or scientific discoveries. Since planetary parameters are static, the obvious thing is that research results directly in tech tree progress -- just not on something free to choose, but rather on what was discovered, just as in reality. Want more structural parts? Research more materials! Want more exploration parts? Research exploration stuff! That kind of approach.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Breaking Ground is a good example. You set up the earthquake detector and then you have to slam something into the ground close to it. It's one of my favorite science missions because you get a reward for being accurate. Also, Breaking Ground Science, because it's more involved, cannot simply be evolved with "let's bring everything all the time."

I was also a big fan of Breaking Ground science! Only trouble is that the rewards are rather meager and it arrives so late in the game you don't really need it.

[Kerbart]

5 minutes ago, Periple said:

I was also a big fan of Breaking Ground science! Only trouble is that the rewards are rather meager and it arrives so late in the game you don't really need it.

But they could change that in a next version of KSP!

Sadly it seems that IG opted to completely ignore all of the DLC innovations (especially cutting off the path for 1.875m tanks—how are those ever going to fit in between "SM" and "MD") like ground science, propellers  and robotics.

[ShadowZone]

6 hours ago, ShadowZone said:

Hey guys, back from Space Creator Day. I was in the crowd when the announcement happened, just wanted to give you guys some impressions from how the reactions were and what people thought who talked to me afterwards.

First off, the KSP2 stand was SWARMED basically the entire time. There even was a father and son that came all the way from Seattle to attend the event, not exclusively for KSP2 but it was a big part (I chatted with them a bit). Pretty much until the presentation, Nate and Dakota were non stop interacting with fans. What does that tell us? It appears that interest in KSP2 is still high despite the problems it is currently facing.

During the presentation, the crowd was very positive regarding the information provided. I talked to a few audience members afterwards and they pretty much share my own take: Nate sold "FOR SCIENCE!" (I am contractually obligated to use all caps and exclamation mark every time¹) pretty well. But now the team has to deliver the quality matching the promises made on Saturday.

Personally, I am pretty excited about the prospect of the update.

Btw, I will upload my recording of Nate's presentation later today (October 23 CEST) including high res trailer footage. You'll be able to check out all the details a lot better than with the SCD official stream footage.  This was my POV:

¹ - Just in case, I am joking. There is no contract between myself and Intercept Games, Private Division or Take Two Interactive.

Here's the full presentation with crowd reactions and gameplay footage in full 4K:

 

[AtomicTech]

HYPE!!!!

[The Aziz]

44 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Even better if it returns something you can use in the game -- either info on planets you didn't have before, or scientific discoveries. Since planetary parameters are static, the obvious thing is that research results directly in tech tree progress -- just not on something free to choose, but rather on what was discovered, just as in reality. Want more structural parts? Research more materials! Want more exploration parts? Research exploration stuff! That kind of approach.

Thiiiis.

[cocoscacao]

Just noticed that Nate said KSP 2 will have infinite storage for samples. Not sure I like that... unless it's digital data... Temperature readings & such... Surface samples should be more involved... I dunno

[kdaviper]

18 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Just noticed that Nate said KSP 2 will have infinite storage for samples. Not sure I like that... unless it's digital data... Temperature readings & such... Surface samples should be more involved... I dunno

It would be a high risk high reward mission.... What happens when you loose all the samples from your jool 5?

[Wheehaw Kerman]

Excellent news.  Was there ever any serious, credible doubt that this was going to happen?

Looking forwards to getting some quality time in with this over Christmas!

[cocoscacao]

10 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

What happens when you loose all the samples from your jool 5?

You get a reality check . He who rises higher has further to fall... Or some philosophical sounding sentence. Keep it fair. Insane designs may have high payoff, but also high risk. Sounds reasonable to me.

Edit:

I basically just regurgitated your statement 

Edited October 23, 2023 by cocoscacao

[AtomicTech]

@Nate Simpson, thank you for your presentation at Space Creator Day; I think it's what a lot of us needed to hear

45 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Just noticed that Nate said KSP 2 will have infinite storage for samples. Not sure I like that... unless it's digital data... Temperature readings & such... Surface samples should be more involved... I dunno

It could be neglegibly large. If you're just grabbing small soil samples, you've got plenty of space for them.

[Pat20999]

I was at space creator day super awesome! (I'm the one who said to Nate the tutorials work.)

[NexusHelium]

Oh my gosh yes.

This update better get KSP 2 to at least a 7/10 on steam.

[Kerbart]

@Dakota -- we now have various YT posts of Nates's presentation of varying quality. Will the actual presentation in all it's digital glory be published by Intercept? So we can all dissect and tealeaf-read its contents?

2 hours ago, ShadowZone said:

Here's the full presentation with crowd reactions and gameplay footage in full 4K:

That's a really good looking capture. If people didn't tell you, I'd say you have a talent for making YT videos. Consider making more KSP2 content!

[kdaviper]

21 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

@Dakota -- we now have various YT posts of Nates's presentation of varying quality. Will the actual presentation in all it's digital glory be published by Intercept? So we can all dissect and tealeaf-read its contents?

That's a really good looking capture. If people didn't tell you, I'd say you have a talent for making YT videos. Consider making more KSP2 content!

Yeah he should consider a YouTube career. He'd be quite popular I imagine.

[The Aziz]

2 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

Just noticed that Nate said KSP 2 will have infinite storage for samples. Not sure I like that... unless it's digital data... Temperature readings & such... Surface samples should be more involved... I dunno

This has been done before, did you like it?

[Scarecrow71]

13 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

This has been done before, did you like it?

Heck, command pods do that; you don't need to bring along an extra experiment storage container.

[The Aziz]

9 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Heck, command pods do that; you don't need to bring along an extra experiment storage container.

Unmanned spacecraft 

[Scarecrow71]

10 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Unmanned spacecraft 

Forgot about those.  Once I unlock a command pod I don't ever use unmanned again.

[Royalswissarmyknife]

11 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Unmanned spacecraft 

 

1 minute ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Forgot about those.  Once I unlock a command pod I don't ever use unmanned again.

Judging by the trailer at Space Creator Day it seems like they actually want you to use unmanned craft more.

but then again what's gonna stop me from throwing a MK-1 command pod on top and calling it a day?

[The Aziz]

2 minutes ago, Royalswissarmyknife said:

then again what's gonna stop me from throwing a MK-1 command pod on top and calling it a day?

Delta-V.

[Guest]

I love uncrewed craft! I’ve played entire careers with only them (with enough starting science to unlock the first one). It’s really cool if they’re making them more interesting!

[HebaruSan]

9 hours ago, Sea_Kerman said:

I really liked the sort of emergent minigame Scansat created, and it’s a lot more interesting and satisfying filling in the “fog-of-war” than just getting a probe into the “correct” range of orbital parameters then clicking a button and instantly getting the science/a map.

8 hours ago, Periple said:

Yes, I think Scansat is exactly the kind of thing we ought to see more of!

Absolutely. In my book, the instantaneous surface scanning was the biggest missed opportunity in KSP1. A well-known model that made orbital parameters significant in interesting and planet-specific ways was just ignored and replaced by something boring.

There's even the potential for replay value: In real life, you don't just scan a surface once. New instruments are created to answer new science questions with new missions. And you know that a new player is going to screw up the scanning orbit the first time or two, so the chance to do it over again but more efficiently offers a satisfying gameplay opportunity.

[AtomicTech]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Delta-V.

Moar boosters, moar fuel.

[FleshJeb]

16 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Absolutely. In my book, the instantaneous surface scanning was the biggest missed opportunity in KSP1. A well-known model that made orbital parameters significant in interesting and planet-specific ways was just ignored and replaced by something boring.

There's even the potential for replay value: In real life, you don't just scan a surface once. New instruments are created to answer new science questions with new missions. And you know that a new player is going to screw up the scanning orbit the first time or two, so the chance to do it over again but more efficiently offers a satisfying gameplay opportunity.

I want to see a benefit to all science instruments having persistence.

Drop a temperature probe on a planet, open up its properties and hit timewarp. You see a graph with a diurnal sine wave. Let that run for a day, and you get some science points. Let it run (and automatically transmit back in the background) for a local year, and you get a lot more. (The calc in KSP1 is deterministic, so this is extremely low overhead.)

Determining position on other planets is hard, so that data also has a quality rating. Over time, your relay satellite / ScanSAT bird can refine the position of your probe, perhaps using radio-ranging. Over time, and depending on the strength of the antennas, the quality metric goes up, acting as a multiplier to the basic science points you're getting from that instrument. (The calcs for this can be simplified a lot, and they depend on existing signal strength calculations, so it's also low overhead.)

Zoom out to map view and hit a theoretical Thermal View button, and it displays the running average temperature from that probe as a red radius around that probe. Drop probes all over the planet and watch all this data shift and blend together as you timewarp. (Some observant players will notice that it's latitude-dependent, and they may learn something.) If you've got enough coverage, and you've run it long enough, the planet's info panel will show you the minimum and maximum temperatures for that planet.